Cook/Shakir/Oliver/Benford vs Hall/Wilson/Williams/Gardner

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Chugga said:

I know it’s a tale as old as time, but one of my biggest pet peeves as a Bills fan is the fact that the two groups of players listed in the subject of this topic are discussed in totally different terms.

 

I’ve watched games where Wilson has been silent (or drops balls), Hall has been stuffed, Sauce can’t tackle and these guys are viewed as all pro talent regardless of any of their faults.  Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying they aren’t talented players.  Williams in particular is a beast but Benford since he was a rookie has been absolutely lights out when healthy and you can’t find an analyst in the world that will put Benford in the same conversation as Sauce.  The Jets tried to manufacture a 1,000 yard season for Hall (they failed) and yet general consensus is Hall is a top 5 RB in the league.  Cook coasted to 1,100 yards that same season.

 

Am I the crazy one?  Are these average talents and I’m just wearing homer goggles?  Because I swear what I see on Sunday out of Shakir & Benford in particular is insanely high quality play.

 

Big market v. Small market

 

Top of the Round Picks v. Bottom of the Round Picks - players like Wilson and Gardner were Top 10 Picks and Top Prospects at their position. Hall was the top RB Prospect in the Draft.

[BigDingus]

I guess I'm not hearing the same chatter you are, though I will agree Benford doesn't get nearly the same credit/attention that Gardner does.

 

But I think that's mainly due to where they were taken in the draft & when they emerged. Sauce took off as a rookie & was a 1st round talent, whereas Benford was never supposed to beat out our own 1st round pick in Elam.

 

Then due to injuries, he's been sidelined enough to not put together a full great season. Look at how much love & respect Tre White got when he became a stud his rookie year as a 1st round pick. Benford just needs to stay healthy, and he'll soon get the same credit. 

[Matt_In_NH]

You are not crazy you are just super biased to the bills.  All the players for the jets are way more talented than the players you list for the bills. 
 

 

32 of 32 NFL GMs would take the jets players over the four bills players. They are all more talented and it has shown in nfl.  There is a lot to be said about scheme and coaching.  

[Doc Brown]

7 hours ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

Went number one overall in my fantasy league if that means anything.....I took Allen first round so I'm winning 

I have an extra spot in my fantasy draft starting next year.  It's a $100 buy in but I'll let you join for $50.

[Doc Brown]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

Wilson is a top 5 WR in the NFL.

 

He would instantly be our #1.

I know he made that great catch tonight but I have Jefferson, Hill, AJ Brown, Collins, and Chase as the top 5 WR's.  Definitely top 10 though.

[May Day 10]

It stinks to see the jets get a little happiness...

 

But the headline is, the result is good for the bills, and Houston has major problems.

[Doc Brown]

45 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

32 of 32 NFL GMs would take the jets players over the four bills players. They are all more talented and it has shown in nfl.  There is a lot to be said about scheme and coaching.  

Depends on if those GM's are against the cap.  Agree on the talent but Jets are going to have to pay Sauce, Hall, and Wilson top of the market contracts.  Beane can pry sign Benford and Shakir for less.  Cook will be a goner though because he's a RB unfortunately.

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Depends on if those GM's are against the cap.  Agree on the talent but Jets are going to have to pay Sauce, Hall, and Wilson top of the market contracts.  Beane can pry sign Benford and Shakir for less.  Cook will be a goner though because he's a RB unfortunately.

But the thread is about talent not cap.  Those players will cost more than the bills by a lot.  

[elijah]

This thread is absurdly biased 

 

The Jets group of 4 is certainly better than the Bills group of 4. Maybe it’s somewhat close, but regardless it’s easy to acknowledge that the Jets group is better.

Who cares though? The Bills are the better team and the Jets are giving their best attempt to lengthen their drought past our 17 seasons and that’s what matters. Why get caught up in semantics when our overall team is miles ahead of their overall team. 

[RangerDave]

Our players just need better nicknames.  How about "Butter" Cook, "Maker" Shakir, "Green" Oliver, or "Around the" Benford?

[wppete]

11 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Cook and Hall are a wash

I personally would take Wilson as a full on boundary guy over Shakir.  I just think he is a touch more dynamic as a route runner.

i like Williams a bit more than Oliver

Benford is better than Gardner - I consider Sauce the most overrated player in the league.

 

the two groups are relatively comparable

This is accurate IMO. 

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Cook and Hall are a wash

I personally would take Wilson as a full on boundary guy over Shakir.  I just think he is a touch more dynamic as a route runner.

i like Williams a bit more than Oliver

Benford is better than Gardner - I consider Sauce the most overrated player in the league.

 

the two groups are relatively comparable

All 4 Jets players are better than their Bills counterparts in my opinion.  

[NoSaint]

12 hours ago, MJS said:

Crazy. I just think everyone wanted the Jets to be something they are not.

as general rankings or fantasy rankings? As those are very different topics.

6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

All 4 Jets players are better than their Bills counterparts in my opinion.  

if we could swap any of them individually, or all 4 as a group, I’d have a hard time passing (ignoring any contract considerations, etc… just swapping jerseys on Sunday)

[GunnerBill]

I think Breece Hall is hugely overhyped. I'm not even sure he is the best back on that roster. I'd take James Cook over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

Garrett Wilson is super talented but he does have his warts. His hands are not as reliable as I'd want and for every amazing circus catch there is a drop you'd want back. He also can hide a bit against really physical corners. But natural talent wise he is elite. Shakir is a totally different player. He is an excellent slot receiver and I think probably nationally he hasn't yet had the recognition he maybe deserves but 32 GMs out of 32 would swap him straight up for Wilson.

 

Sauce has been a stud his first two years in the NFL. This year, less so. I do wonder a bit if he has checked out of this disaster season which isn't a great look. But he is one of the best, most versatile young corners in the NFL. He can play zone, he can play man, he can press he can play off.... just an all around good corner. Benford is having an outstanding year and has got better and better and better throughout his career. He is more of a zone specialist but he has held his own in man some. Again underrated as a 6th rounder of Vilanova but he is going to get PAID. Sauce his first two years was pretty close to elite. Benford isn't that yet but he is a legit #1 outside corner in the NFL as a small school 6th rounder. That in itself is incredible.

 

Quinnen Williams is a stud. Ed Oliver is also a stud. They both got paid. They both are recognised around the NFL as outstanding players.

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

All 4 Jets players are better than their Bills counterparts in my opinion.  

 

I would say two years ago, of course Sauce over Benford.  I think the Sauce hype train is slowing down and I would put Benford above him.  

Quinnen over Oliver yes.

Garrett Wilson over Shakir yes but they aren't playing the same position.

I think Hall and Cook are a wash.  

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I would say two years ago, of course Sauce over Benford.  I think the Sauce hype train is slowing down and I would put Benford above him.  

Quinnen over Oliver yes.

Garrett Wilson over Shakir yes but they aren't playing the same position.

I think Hall and Cook are a wash.  

I think that with our offensive line and QB, Hall would be outperforming Cook but he has lost a step after another devastating knee injury.

 

Great boundary receiver >>>> great slot receiver, so thats an easy call for me. 

 

 

[JESSEFEFFER]

Ok.  Entering the draft as a premium talent and play well in your rookie NFL season in a major sports media market vs. being an under the radar, day 2 or 3 pick that makes the starting lineup in year 2 or 3.  Which brings to mind the Mark Twain quote often used by Marv Levy:

 

[Watkins101]

Hall had more total yards last season than Cook, and is outpacing him this season on a per-game basis. First impressions also matter and Hall was extremely dynamic before the injury his rookie season, averaging 98 total yards per game and ripping off 5.8 yards per carry as a lead back. Cook started off as a second string back and had a lighter workload, so it makes sense that he’s viewed in a better light like that. 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think that with our offensive line and QB, Hall would be outperforming Cook but he has lost a step after another devastating knee injury.

 

Great boundary receiver >>>> great slot receiver, so thats an easy call for me. 

 

 

 

I don't. His vision sucks. He can run fast in a straight line. That's it. 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't. His vision sucks. He can run fast in a straight line. That's it. 

I can't tell if you're talking Cook or Hall.