Tommy Callahan Posted October 31 Posted October 31 16 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The people who say, He sure will be good for the economy, must be some dumb ass people, probably broke Welp. Most in this economy are broke. Outside of her corporate/wall street backers that is. The act blue foreign funding investigation is interesting 1
4th&long Posted October 31 Posted October 31 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The people who say, He sure will be good for the economy, must be some dumb ass people, probably broke I laugh when people say he will be good for the economy. He’sa failed businessman. The only way he’s made money is fraud and filing for bankruptcy. The govt is not a business anyway.
L Ron Burgundy Posted October 31 Posted October 31 2 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said: Oh, the cringe! 🤣🤣🤣 I pretty much think everything they do is cringe. I can't think of the last thing I heard one of them say that wasn't. Every time they attribute something intelligent to the guy it's a fail, it's some kind of genius interpretation Trump never intended. Their "it's not about Trump" reasoning is borderline canine level intellect BS. The toughness thing is beyond laughable. At it's core, they're just jokes. Like 9/10 conservative posters here are raging conspiracy theorists.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Welp. Most in this economy are broke. Outside of her corporate/wall street backers that is. The act blue foreign funding investigation is interesting well the median American is up $51k since 2019 average American wealth is over 1 mil. Seems like a pretty good economy for most. $1,063,700 The average American net worth is $1,063,700, as of 2022. Net worth averages increase with age from $183,500 for those 35 and under to $1,794,600 for those 65 to 74. Net worth, however, tends to drop for those 75 and older. money.usnews.com › money › personal-finance What Is the Average American Net Worth by Age? - U.S. News The median net worth of Americans in 2022 was $192,700, according to the Federal Reserve. That's a $51,555 increase from 2019, roughly a 37% jump and the largest recorded since the Fed began collecting this data in 1989. (Data is in 2022 dollars.) Edited October 31 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
sherpa Posted October 31 Posted October 31 13 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: well the median American is up $51k since 2019 average American wealth is over 1 mil. Seems like a pretty good economy for most. $1,063,700 The average American net worth is $1,063,700, as of 2022. Net worth averages increase with age from $183,500 for those 35 and under to $1,794,600 for those 65 to 74. Net worth, however, tends to drop for those 75 and older. money.usnews.com › money › personal-finance What Is the Average American Net Worth by Age? - U.S. News The median net worth of Americans in 2022 was $192,700, according to the Federal Reserve. That's a $51,555 increase from 2019, roughly a 37% jump and the largest recorded since the Fed began collecting this data in 1989. (Data is in 2022 dollars.) Net worth is a sketchy way to determine people's situations. It includes real estate, which must be replaced unless one, or both dies. Liquid assets is a much better indicator, and without doing the math, I'm quite sure it has not kept up with inflation over the past four years. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: Net worth is a sketchy way to determine people's situations. It includes real estate, which must be replaced unless one, or both dies. Liquid assets is a much better indicator, and without doing the math, I'm quite sure it has not kept up with inflation over the past four years. yes, it includes non liquid assets. houses are still assets that can fuel purchasing power. let's say 50 of that 55k increase is in a primary residence. borrowing against part or all of that at low interest rates (soon to be lower) without losing any equity in comparison to 2019 levels ight be a wise strategy. wealth is wealth. it's better to have 50k more than not.
sherpa Posted October 31 Posted October 31 11 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes, it includes non liquid assets. houses are still assets that can fuel purchasing power. let's say 50 of that 55k increase is in a primary residence. borrowing against part or all of that at low interest rates (soon to be lower) without losing any equity in comparison to 2019 levels ight be a wise strategy. wealth is wealth. it's better to have 50k more than not. It seems that you are arguing a strategy for home equity line of credit. That is not only not part of a discussion of net worth, it is not part of the issue. Home equity is an asset that if used, needs to be replaced, at much higher cost unless downsizing. See 2008 for risks involved in real estate values. The way to truly value net worth is in liquid assets, not home/land equity.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 (edited) 23 minutes ago, sherpa said: It seems that you are arguing a strategy for home equity line of credit. That is not only not part of a discussion of net worth, it is not part of the issue. Home equity is an asset that if used, needs to be replaced, at much higher cost unless downsizing. See 2008 for risks involved in real estate values. The way to truly value net worth is in liquid assets, not home/land equity. For simplicity, say you outright own a $100k home. since 2019, it increased in value to 150k. you borrow against that 50k windfall at 8%. Meanwhile your house appreciates at 5% (conservatively). so you pay 4000/yr for interest on your loan while your equity increase $5000/yr. you do even better if you can get more than 8% in the market. This is not a new strategy. trump uses it often. Edited October 31 by Joe Ferguson forever
sherpa Posted October 31 Posted October 31 10 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: For simplicity, say you outright own a $100k home. since 2019, it increased in value to 150k. you borrow against that 50k windfall at 8%. Meanwhile your house appreciates at 5% (conservatively). so you pay 4000/yr for interest on your loan while your equity increase $5000/yr. you do even better if you can get more than 8% in the market. This is not a new strategy. trump uses it often. I am very familiar with using equity. There is risk involved. One cannot assume that property will not undergo a reversion to the mean. One cannot assume property values will even remain stagnant. The owner of that property is paying increased taxes every year, based on appraised value. In addition if it is to be liquidated, there may well be significant tax consequences. The point is that using property value as a variable in net worth, as opposed to liquid asset value is deceptive. It must be replaced unless you die, and that appreciation is in the market options for replacement.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 (edited) 5 minutes ago, sherpa said: I am very familiar with using equity. There is risk involved. One cannot assume that property will not undergo a reversion to the mean. One cannot assume property values will even remain stagnant. The owner of that property is paying increased taxes every year, based on appraised value. In addition if it is to be liquidated, there may well be significant tax consequences. The point is that using property value as a variable in net worth, as opposed to liquid asset value is deceptive. It must be replaced unless you die, and that appreciation is in the market options for replacement. and yet, you discarded the idea out of hand the first time. of course there's risk. the property taxes will be the same regardless of the loan. the extra cash can help pay it. "Home equity is an asset that if used, needs to be replaced, at much higher cost unless downsizing". care to add ":under certain circumstances"? Edited October 31 by Joe Ferguson forever
JaCrispy Posted October 31 Author Posted October 31 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: Can't get enough of the garbage man! I can't believe this. This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen 🤣 At least it made us laugh….🤣
OrangeBills Posted October 31 Posted October 31 59 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes, it includes non liquid assets. houses are still assets that can fuel purchasing power. let's say 50 of that 55k increase is in a primary residence. borrowing against part or all of that at low interest rates (soon to be lower) without losing any equity in comparison to 2019 levels ight be a wise strategy. wealth is wealth. it's better to have 50k more than not. You really can't borrow against Home Equity right now, mostly because they're smart enough to realize how inflated home values are due to our current Economic situation
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 seems like a whole lotta lenders are bucking the trend. there are plenty advertising right now.
sherpa Posted October 31 Posted October 31 22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: and yet, you discarded the idea out of hand the first time. of course there's risk. the property taxes will be the same regardless of the loan. the extra cash can help pay it. "Home equity is an asset that if used, needs to be replaced, at much higher cost unless downsizing". care to add ":under certain circumstances"? I didn't dismiss it out of hand. What I am stating is that including property value as part of net worth is not a great idea, nor indicative of true economic growth. It must be replaced unless you die, at similarly inflated values. Property taxes drain an increased amount with the annual appraisal value. There is also a potential capital gains tax to be considered, further reducing real value.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sherpa said: I didn't dismiss it out of hand. What I am stating is that including property value as part of net worth is not a great idea, nor indicative of true economic growth. It must be replaced unless you die, at similarly inflated values. Property taxes drain an increased amount with the annual appraisal value. There is also a potential capital gains tax to be considered, further reducing real value. and then there's the very possible scenario that the house value increases at around the historical average, the loan is paid off in 5 or 10 years and the owner remains in it afterwards. Home prices have increased significantly in recent years. Between April 2021 and April 2022, home values nationally rose 18.8%, according to the Federal Housing Finance Agency. That is higher than historical averages. Since 1991, the average annual home price increase has been 4.3%, according to the FHFA. Since 2000, the average rate has been 4.7%. And since 2012, the average rate has been 7.7%. Home price appreciation can also vary significantly from state to state. In the first quarter of 2022, home values in Florida were up more than nearly 30% compared to the year before, according to the FHFA State House Price Indexes, the fastest rise of any state. In the state with the slowest home appreciation, North Dakota, values were up about 10%. Between 1940 and 2000, the average home value quadrupled even when adjusted for inflation. Home values increased in each decade during that period, with a high of 43% in the 1970s and a low of 8% in the 1980s. Home values fell between 2007 and 2010, during the Great Recession. Edited October 31 by Joe Ferguson forever
sherpa Posted October 31 Posted October 31 I'm not going to speculate on property value over the next decade. What I am asserting is that unrealized gains should not be counted on to continue, nor used to base one's net worth on. Only liquid assets, those than can be capitalized in a few month's time, are what really matters. Pumping trillions of dollars into the economy is always going to result in inflated prices of competing commodities, whether stocks, real estate or other assets. Print money---->devalue money. That doesn't mean extra wealth. It simply means higher numbers.
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 31 Posted October 31 1 minute ago, sherpa said: I'm not going to speculate on property value over the next decade. What I am asserting is that unrealized gains should not be counted on to continue, nor used to base one's net worth on. Only liquid assets, those than can be capitalized in a few month's time, are what really matters. Pumping trillions of dollars into the economy is always going to result in inflated prices of competing commodities, whether stocks, real estate or other assets. Print money---->devalue money. That doesn't mean extra wealth. It simply means higher numbers. then trump is not a billionaire? He's leveraged to the teeth. Much of his wealth is real estate. Homes are the most valuable asset for most Americans. Of course they're an indication of relative wealth. They're the single most important indicator for most Americans.
4th&long Posted October 31 Posted October 31 3 hours ago, Biden is Mentally Fit said: A question all the hysterical lefties need to ask themselves now. If everything is quite so dire, one of you will stop typing and take care of business, right? Or maybe you are just a bunch of whining b*tches. Not masculine at all. Who said everything was dire? Trump has no chance, maga will be dead! The economy is on the upswing. I paid $2.89 for gas. My grocery bill is going down and my portfolio is going up. The future is bright. Trump is the one who is trying to get elected by fearmongering. It’s not working. 1
4th&long Posted November 1 Posted November 1 1 hour ago, sherpa said: It seems that you are arguing a strategy for home equity line of credit. That is not only not part of a discussion of net worth, it is not part of the issue. Home equity is an asset that if used, needs to be replaced, at much higher cost unless downsizing. See 2008 for risks involved in real estate values. The way to truly value net worth is in liquid assets, not home/land equity. So everyone is living in million dollar houses but are cash poor? That sounds like it is their problem not the govt. my net worth has gone up nicely and it’s not my house. I bought an average price house ( maybe a little more)25 years ago and that is where I’m going to die I don’t care how much more cash flow I get. 39 minutes ago, sherpa said: I'm not going to speculate on property value over the next decade. What I am asserting is that unrealized gains should not be counted on to continue, nor used to base one's net worth on. Only liquid assets, those than can be capitalized in a few month's time, are what really matters. Pumping trillions of dollars into the economy is always going to result in inflated prices of competing commodities, whether stocks, real estate or other assets. Print money---->devalue money. That doesn't mean extra wealth. It simply means higher numbers. Wrong. When you go to see a finance planner he figures your net worth. That includes everything you own including your house.
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