Sam Darnold and other QB resurrections

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

I wouldn’t pencil Darnold in as a resurrection case yet. 
 

There’s plenty of time this season for the Cinderella story to end on the bench. 

I agree with this. I don’t trust him in the slightest. Still makes way too many mistakes. 
 

also, fails on the handsome qb rating as well. Some can get by (Andrew Luck) but you need a cool last name or another trait. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

Others to consider:

 

Tommy Maddox in Pittsburgh

Jim Harbaugh in Indianapolis

Kerry Collins in Tennessee

 

Rich Gannon with the Raiders

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Malazan said:

the Sam Darnold resurrection is premature. His MVP campaign has already died. You give any QB who can make it to the NFL the longest time to throw in the league and Jefferson and he'll seem competent. You just saw last night on the last drive what happens when you need Darnold to actually do anything.

Jordan Addison is also a 1st rounder too and Aaron Jones looks great. I give credit to Sam but lots of qbs would like great there. Baker is throwing to a HOFer and a very good wr (at least he was 😞).

 

situation matters. 

[Rubes]

All you youngsters are forgetting Jim Plunkett?

 

[SoTier]

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Flutie in Buffalo....

 

Flutie was never a bust.  He chose to play in the CFL because he realized he'd never get a chance in the NFL because he was considered too small.  His situation was much like Warren Moon who also chose the CFL because he didn't want to play any position but QB and knew he wouldn't get that chance.  Both had great careers in the CFL before coming into the NFL and proving themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Pretty lucky that the same didn't happen with Allen.  I really think the key is the correct development approach.   Even Mahomes didn't play much his first year.  Was Daboll here Allens 1st year or was it Greg Roman?

 

Absolutely true.   Under the control of the Bills' Evil Genius Russ Brandon, the Bills offensive coaching staff was sketchy at best when they drafted Allen.  The Bills "QB coach" in 2018 was a guy who hadn't actually coached QBs in 20 years, and only did that for a year on the college level.  Brandon was fired in May, 2018, and Beane was given full GM powers.  After the 2018 season, all of the offensive coaches except Daboll were fired and Ken Dorsey was hired as Allen's QB coach.    The rest, as they say, is history but it could have been very different for Allen, too.  

 

Smith, Baker and Darnold all were drafted by substandard, perhaps even dysfunctional, organizations.  Hell, the Jests under Woody Johnson, can't even put together a good team with one of the greatest QBs playing for them.   What chance did Smith and Darnold really have with them?   Once a high round QB fails for his original team, he's generally relegated to backup status.  Smith, Baker, and Darnold all spent time as backups under great coaches with excellent assistants (Carroll, McVay and Shanihan) and emerged as better QBs for it.  Once again, coaching matters.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:59 PM by SoTier

[Chicken Boo]

Some guys are late bloomers, some find the right scheme/fit and some catch lightning in a bottle - regressing back to their old selves over time.  

Edited Friday at 01:59 PM by Chicken Boo

[RangerDave]

30 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

What about Brett Favre in Green Bay?

Steve Young, anyone?

[skibum]

The best QB prospects almost always get drafted by desperate, terrible franchises. For many of them, it's next to impossible to establish confidence and rhythm. There's nowhere to go but up, and fortunately some of them get out before it's too late. 

 

And this is why you also see QB success stories from later rounds - Those guys are more likely to go to good teams with an established franchise QB to mentor them along. 

Edited Friday at 02:10 PM by skibum

[MJS]

I think there are countless other QBs who could have thrived and revived their careers if they got into better situations and were actually given a shot.

13 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

Steve Young, anyone?

Yes! It took him until year 8 to actually become a good QB. He was 31 years old before he did anything meaningful in the league.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Baker threw 21 ints and had a 17 td to 13 int season in Cleveland. Some was the shoulder but he wasn’t regressing and didn’t show much promise in Carolina either. Hindsight 20/20, it is one of the worst decisions ever but KS (who has won 2 coach of the years and went to the playoffs with Joe Flacco) decided he wasn’t good enough. Salute to Baker for turning his career around. 
 

and situation matters. More QBs are ruined than developed  Bryce Young might not be good enough but no one was going to make it in Carolina. I think Caleb Williams was a much better prospect but the Bears shockingly have done a great job of surrounding him with talent as well (I still think their coaching is suspect). But situation matters.

i thought Cleveland getting rid of Baker was stupid the minute they announced it. He gutted it out during an injury, had a little bit of a regression, and Cleveland thanked him by sending him to the black hole of the NFL 😂 Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but most semi-informed fans knew that was a massive gaff at the time. It was a total slap in the face to the fans and to the guy who lifted Cleveland out of their pit of misery. I can 100% relate to the joy Browns fans must’ve felt when they dropped 48 points on the Steelers and knocked them out of the post-season. It’s like watch the scrawny nerd kick the **** out of the school bully after years of trauma. Baker was never a world beater and probably won’t ever be, but having an elite QB is more of a luxury. He’s more than capable of winning a championship if you surround him with talent & good coaching. 

 

I used to think a QB (or any position really) w/ generational talent could overcome a bad organization, but I’m doubting it more & more these days. People knock Eli Manning not wanting to play for the Chargers, but he was absolutely correct in his choice. Look how quickly Ryan Leaf flamed out for them. I’ve always wondered what an alternate timeline would look like where Peyton went to San Diego and Leaf went to Indy. Not even just that. Imagine having a roster w/ Phillip Rivers, LT,  Antonio Gates, a prime roided up Shawn Merriman, Vincent Jackson, Shaun Phillips, Cromartie, etc and not even MAKING it to the SB let alone winning one. Those mid to late 2000’s Chargers teams were absolutely stacked and continuously got eliminated early. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

I think there are countless other QBs who could have thrived and revived their careers if they got into better situations and were actually given a shot.

Yes! It took him until year 8 to actually become a good QB. He was 31 years old before he did anything meaningful in the league.

Who is your number 1 “what if” QB ?

 

Although he had a very solid career, my choice would be Randall Cunningham. He could’ve been the GOAT if he  went somewhere where they knew how to develop properly and design an offense around his skill set. I feel like he was a victim of the times, but a forward thinking coach might’ve been able to see the potential. If he played today with the rules they have now? Forget about it. Dudes like Cunningham and Fran Tarkenton would’ve ate in this era. 

[US Egg]

Earl Morrall, 2nd overall pick, was pretty much a career backup but won an MVP. 
 

BUST!

[MJS]

29 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Who is your number 1 “what if” QB ?

 

Although he had a very solid career, my choice would be Randall Cunningham. He could’ve been the GOAT if he  went somewhere where they knew how to develop properly and design an offense around his skill set. I feel like he was a victim of the times, but a forward thinking coach might’ve been able to see the potential. If he played today with the rules they have now? Forget about it. Dudes like Cunningham and Fran Tarkenton would’ve ate in this era. 

Maybe Ty Detmer? He was such a dynamic player in college but came into the league and bounced around between a few teams, and then he was gone. He played well enough in 1996 to get the Eagles to the playoffs when their starter went down.

 

And he didn't get drafted until the 9th round! Crazy for a Heisman Trophy winner. He threw for over 5,000 yards and 41 TDs in 1990 in 12 games! He had an average of 432 yards per game that year. Crazy. I think the NFL just didn't want to give him much of a shot. But he was smaller. Only 6'0" and 190 pounds.

Edited Friday at 03:03 PM by MJS

[MiracleAtRich1393]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

The worst run franchises with no qb development system always draft near the top (Browns, Jets, Bears).

If you can survive your first contract and go to a better organization you have a chance 

Bears' new GM Poles is actually highly competent. He's been drafting well, ripped off Carolina something fierce, finds solid free agents, hasn't maxed out the cap, put his #1 overall rookie in a prime position to succeed. Pretty much nailing a rebuild.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Pretty lucky that the same didn't happen with Allen.  I really think the key is the correct development approach.   Even Mahomes didn't play much his first year.  Was Daboll here Allens 1st year or was it Greg Roman?

Daboll was hired during his 2nd year I believe. Besides the Josh Allen pick itself, this might’ve been the most important move made by the McBeane regime. Quite literally the textbook definition of how to develop a raw, physically gifted QB prospect and Daboll did a masterful job. I like that he took on more of a “‘mentor” role instead of trying to be all buddy/buddy. Listening to past interviews, Allen mentions time & time again how important Daboll was to his success. 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Daboll was hired during his 2nd year I believe. Besides the Josh Allen pick itself, this might’ve been the most important move made by the McBeane regime. Quite literally the textbook definition of how to develop a raw, physically gifted QB prospect and Daboll did a masterful job. I like that he took on more of a “‘mentor” role instead of trying to be all buddy/buddy. Listening to past interviews, Allen mentions time & time again how important Daboll was to his success. 

I think it was his first year. They had Rick Dennison the first year when Tyrod was still here, and then moved on and hired Daboll their 2nd year, which would be Allen's first year.

[C.Biscuit97]

39 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

i thought Cleveland getting rid of Baker was stupid the minute they announced it. He gutted it out during an injury, had a little bit of a regression, and Cleveland thanked him by sending him to the black hole of the NFL 😂 Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but most semi-informed fans knew that was a massive gaff at the time. It was a total slap in the face to the fans and to the guy who lifted Cleveland out of their pit of misery. I can 100% relate to the joy Browns fans must’ve felt when they dropped 48 points on the Steelers and knocked them out of the post-season. It’s like watch the scrawny nerd kick the **** out of the school bully after years of trauma. Baker was never a world beater and probably won’t ever be, but having an elite QB is more of a luxury. He’s more than capable of winning a championship if you surround him with talent & good coaching. 

 

I used to think a QB (or any position really) w/ generational talent could overcome a bad organization, but I’m doubting it more & more these days. People knock Eli Manning not wanting to play for the Chargers, but he was absolutely correct in his choice. Look how quickly Ryan Leaf flamed out for them. I’ve always wondered what an alternate timeline would look like where Peyton went to San Diego and Leaf went to Indy. Not even just that. Imagine having a roster w/ Phillip Rivers, LT,  Antonio Gates, a prime roided up Shawn Merriman, Vincent Jackson, Shaun Phillips, Cromartie, etc and not even MAKING it to the SB let alone winning one. Those mid to late 2000’s Chargers teams were absolutely stacked and continuously got eliminated early. 

See, I don’t know if Baker is that guy who can win a championship. They could have taken a commanding lead MNF and he threw a terrible end zone INT that completely swung the game. He is like the best version of Fitz - great heart, can be as good as almost any top Qb in spurts, but lacks the physical skills and thus has some bad turnovers. 
 

in a vacuum, pre massage Watson was a much better qb than Baker. Now the Browns trading for Watson with all that baggage? Awful, awful move. 

[Mojo44]

Jim Plunkett.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Drew Brees in New Orleans will TOP ALL These list !

Brees was always a solid starter, but really started putting it together his last couple years in SD. The fact he landed a 60 mill contract (in the early 2000s) coming off a major injury to his throwing arm proves that the NFL valued his talent. I do agree with you though. Saints Drew Brees was a different animal. And it’s not like he walked onto a team chock full of talent. Brees was that offense. 

[C.Biscuit97]

32 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Who is your number 1 “what if” QB ?

 

Although he had a very solid career, my choice would be Randall Cunningham. He could’ve been the GOAT if he  went somewhere where they knew how to develop properly and design an offense around his skill set. I feel like he was a victim of the times, but a forward thinking coach might’ve been able to see the potential. If he played today with the rules they have now? Forget about it. Dudes like Cunningham and Fran Tarkenton would’ve ate in this era. 

If you look back at who Cunningham played with, it was a lot of garbage. And he was the qb of arguably the greatest team to never play in a SB, the Vikes, when he was pretty old. 
 

I think of Moon if they had a defense. Part of me wants to say Rivers but I think the chargers are one of those teams that always chokes.