Sam Darnold and other QB resurrections

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I was going to post this in the game thread, but it thought it was an interesting topic to have its own. I know the Vikings lost, but I can’t get over how much Sam Darnold has improved. Having the best WR in the game obviously helps, but he’s looked quick & decisive all season. I can now see why he was a such a high pick. I’m always fascinated by previous busts who turn it around especially much later into their career ala Rich Gannon. Was it going to a better system? More years of experience? A drastic change of approach? I remember when Bills’ great 36 y.o Todd Collins went super saiyan out of nowhere on a 3 game win streak for the Redskins where he threw for 900 yards.. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield are all 3 pretty good examples of that and hilariously they are all better than their original team’s current starting QB. There have been countless examples over the years. Makes you wonder if teams should spend more time on development. The Jets and Browns would both be AFC contenders w/ those players. 

[GunnerBill]

Not sure Baker counts. He was never really a bust. He was pretty decent in Cleveland he just didn't see eye to eye with Stefanski. He then did flame out in Carolina but I think that might have been more Carolina than him. 

 

Darnold and Geno were busts who turned it around. I think with Geno it was maturity. He always threw an accurate football and had enough arm. His issue was decision making and I think that has just improved as he matured. Darnold it was a bit more complicated IMO. But even those two... they had Jets in common 😄

[Billsatlastin2018]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I was going to post this in the game thread, but it thought it was an interesting topic to have its own. I know the Vikings lost, but I can’t get over how much Sam Darnold has improved. Having the best WR in the game obviously helps, but he’s looked quick & decisive all season. I can now see why he was a such a high pick. I’m always fascinated by previous busts who turn it around especially much later into their career ala Rich Gannon. Was it going to a better system? More years of experience? A drastic change of approach? I remember when Bills’ great 36 y.o Todd Collins went super saiyan out of nowhere on a 3 game win streak for the Redskins where he threw for 900 yards.. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield are all 3 pretty good examples of that and hilariously they are all better than their original team’s current starting QB. There have been countless examples over the years. Makes you wonder if teams should spend more time on development. The Jets and Browns would both be AFC contenders w/ those players. 

It is interesting. Thought Darnold was yet another #1 total bust. There have been several.
Has he ever turned it around!

[ganesh]

The coaching has got to helped him make this transition.  The VIkings also have a very good OL and good weapons on offense. 

[Don Otreply]

In the above cases, team management (owner GM & HC) has been the big issue for Mayfield, Darnold and Smith, in each case the player was managed incorrectly, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of useful forethought by these teams in how to acclimate their Rookie QBs into the NFL, but the jets and browns are pretty much famous for screwing this up. 

[SoCal Deek]

The fatal flaw that eventually sank Darnold at USC was his propensity to throw the ball to the OTHER team his senior year. That was ignored in the Draft. Looking at his stats at the halfway point of the season, he’s definitely settled down and turned that around. 

[dpberr]

Others to consider:

 

Tommy Maddox in Pittsburgh

Jim Harbaugh in Indianapolis

Kerry Collins in Tennessee

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Others to consider:

 

Tommy Maddox in Pittsburgh

Jim Harbaugh in Indianapolis

Kerry Collins in Tennessee

 

Flutie in Buffalo....

[dma0034]

Tannehill in Tenn was the most surprising. He wasn't a bust in Miami but he wasn't good either.

 

A lot of Offenses now are similar to colleges... you take a talented QB and pair them with Jefferson, Metcalf, and Evans and all of a sudden they look better. All three of the Vikings, Seahawks, and Bucs have multiple WRs and atleast 1 RB. 

 

It's like OCs with elite QBs.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Pretty lucky that the same didn't happen with Allen.  I really think the key is the correct development approach.   Even Mahomes didn't play much his first year.  Was Daboll here Allens 1st year or was it Greg Roman?

[thenorthremembers]

I mean both Darnold and Geno Smith were drafted to teams with defensive head coaches.   Darnold specifically had bad offensive coordinators to boot.    Football more than any sport has a lot to do with coaching.   

 

Not even close to the NFL but my teenager plays Quarterback for his high school team.   His coach two years ago was great at scheming people open and my kid looked fantastic.  His coach the last two years is in his twenties and only calls Go Routes even when the opposing cornerbacks are playing ten yards off.  My kid looks like he's never played football before.    Guys like Darnold and Smith were drafted pretty high at their position for a reason.   They have elite throwing ability.   In football it takes good coaching and elite talent. 

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I was going to post this in the game thread, but it thought it was an interesting topic to have its own. I know the Vikings lost, but I can’t get over how much Sam Darnold has improved. Having the best WR in the game obviously helps, but he’s looked quick & decisive all season. I can now see why he was a such a high pick. I’m always fascinated by previous busts who turn it around especially much later into their career ala Rich Gannon. Was it going to a better system? More years of experience? A drastic change of approach? I remember when Bills’ great 36 y.o Todd Collins went super saiyan out of nowhere on a 3 game win streak for the Redskins where he threw for 900 yards.. Geno Smith, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield are all 3 pretty good examples of that and hilariously they are all better than their original team’s current starting QB. There have been countless examples over the years. Makes you wonder if teams should spend more time on development. The Jets and Browns would both be AFC contenders w/ those players. 

There are other factors like

 

1. system fit— common with other positions but also applies to QB. Watson might be a good example of system fit.

 

2. coaching stability. I think mayfield had a different OC each year in Cleveland and it wasn’t because these OCS got HC jobs.

 

3.  the overall team and surrounding talent 

4. comparative pressure. If you flipped Stroud and Young between houston ad Carolina how woukd thry be?  How much of it is player vs environment thry were in.

 

Darnold was in nyc which is not a good place to be if you aren’t getting to the playoffs…you add that to other problems onnthe team.

 

Mayfield being 1st overall was another factor

[stuvian]

The worst run franchises with no qb development system always draft near the top (Browns, Jets, Bears).

If you can survive your first contract and go to a better organization you have a chance 

[ganesh]

52 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Others to consider:

 

Tommy Maddox in Pittsburgh

Jim Harbaugh in Indianapolis

Kerry Collins in Tennessee

Drew Brees in New Orleans will TOP ALL These list !

[The Jokeman]

Just now, ganesh said:

Drew Brees in New Orleans will TOP ALL These list !

What about Brett Favre in Green Bay?

[ToGoGo]

I wouldn’t pencil Darnold in as a resurrection case yet. 
 

There’s plenty of time this season for the Cinderella story to end on the bench. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Not sure Baker counts. He was never really a bust. He was pretty decent in Cleveland he just didn't see eye to eye with Stefanski. He then did flame out in Carolina but I think that might have been more Carolina than him. 

 

Darnold and Geno were busts who turned it around. I think with Geno it was maturity. He always threw an accurate football and had enough arm. His issue was decision making and I think that has just improved as he matured. Darnold it was a bit more complicated IMO. But even those two... they had Jets in common 😄

Baker threw 21 ints and had a 17 td to 13 int season in Cleveland. Some was the shoulder but he wasn’t regressing and didn’t show much promise in Carolina either. Hindsight 20/20, it is one of the worst decisions ever but KS (who has won 2 coach of the years and went to the playoffs with Joe Flacco) decided he wasn’t good enough. Salute to Baker for turning his career around. 
 

and situation matters. More QBs are ruined than developed  Bryce Young might not be good enough but no one was going to make it in Carolina. I think Caleb Williams was a much better prospect but the Bears shockingly have done a great job of surrounding him with talent as well (I still think their coaching is suspect). But situation matters.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

56 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Others to consider:

 

Tommy Maddox in Pittsburgh

Jim Harbaugh in Indianapolis

Kerry Collins in Tennessee

All great examples. I remember when Jim Kelly broke Harbaugh’s jaw and it ended up costing him half a million in game checks

[Maynard]

I think O’Connell probably has something to do with it as well. I do think it’s pretty awesome how well Darnold is playing. 

[Malazan]

the Sam Darnold resurrection is premature. His MVP campaign has already died. You give any QB who can make it to the NFL the longest time to throw in the league and Jefferson and he'll seem competent. You just saw last night on the last drive what happens when you need Darnold to actually do anything.