Andy Reid: Myth or Mahomes

[Success]

10 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

It never seems to be mentioned that there's a big difference in sample size and strength of opponents.

 

Allen's played in one championship game and played poorly. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that Mahomes' stats in the WC/divisional rounds are unmatched. Mahomes' less impressive playoff performances happened in championship games and Super Bowls, against some of the best defenses in modern times.

 

In that game, Beasley had a broken leg, Diggs had an oblique injury, John Brown had an ankle injury, and Gabe Davis had a knee injury.  Allen's top 4 receivers were all playing hurt and much less effective - as evidenced by the fact that none of his receivers came close to getting any separation the entire game, and had to deal w/ officials allowing KC's DB's to interfere w/ them all day.

 

We're seeing now how Mahomes is when he doesn't have incredible receivers to throw to.  He isn't bored - he's just not on another level from Allen like many fans think.

[Chaos]

Imagine two violinists that both sound sound similar when playing a cheap violin, because the violin limits the performance. 

Then both are given a Stradivarius to play, and one sounds like perfection and the other does not. The violin is no longer limiting the more talented violinist. But it does not increase the talent of the other violinest. 

Reid is the virtuso who is able to play Mahomes the Stradivarius. 

This is why you can't measure the full talent of the virtuoso, when not given the proper instrument. 

PS. rumor is that Mahomes is not the only Stradivarius in the NFL. 

Edited Saturday at 04:42 PM by Chaos

[ganesh]

On 10/25/2024 at 5:32 PM, Frostbite said:

I'd argue it's the opposite. Mahomes is great, but pair him with another coach not as offensively creative as Reid and i genuinely dont believe he's a HOF QB. This was the perfect team/scheme for Mahomes to go to. 

Even if a coach schemes something brilliant, the execution lies in the hands of the QB.   Mahomes has done a very good job of executing the given plays... of course, he has been aided by great receivers/TE who have ability to consistently get open.

[somnus00]

I believe Andy Reid wins at least one superbowl with the Bills roster from the last few years.

 

I also believe Josh Allen wins multiple superbowls on that Chiefs team.

 

Really good coach, really good QB, really good defense. A team needs at least 2 of those 3 to win a Superbowl. The Chiefs have had 2/3 every year for the past 6 or 7 years. Combine that with the mystique dynasties get that cause other teams to make mistakes at key moments.

[ganesh]

4 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I believe Andy Reid wins at least one superbowl with the Bills roster from the last few years.

 

I also believe Josh Allen wins multiple superbowls on that Chiefs team.

 

Really good coach, really good QB, really good defense. A team needs at least 2 of those 3 to win a Superbowl. The Chiefs have had 2/3 every year for the past 6 or 7 years. Combine that with the mystique dynasties get that cause other teams to make mistakes at key moments.

The chiefs simply have a playoff caliber defense and with the best QB in the league it is a slam dunk they win the super bowl repeatedly.... Until someone knocks theym in the divisional round, the champions are who they are.

[julian]

4 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

It's kinda hard to dismiss Mahomes' achievements as a product of having great weapons after he won back to back with scrub WRs and a past-his-prime version of Kelce. KC's #2 WR the last two years was the guy who Buffalo just cut after producing two receptions for 26 yds in 5 games. Let that sink in. 

 

Their #1 WR two years ago was the fifth option in a terrible Patriots offense last year. 

 

This narrative is sad and hilarious. 

Nobody is talking about the team achievements, Mahomes on another level is laughable.

 

 Nobody with a functioning prefrontal cortex would suggest that Aikman was on another level from Marino because of his achievements… you just have to use your eyes and watch them play the game of football.

 

History will shake out the prisoner of the moment narratives and shine light on what is really happening.

[SaulGoodman]

On 10/26/2024 at 11:09 AM, Success said:

 

In that game, Beasley had a broken leg, Diggs had an oblique injury, John Brown had an ankle injury, and Gabe Davis had a knee injury.  Allen's top 4 receivers were all playing hurt and much less effective - as evidenced by the fact that none of his receivers came close to getting any separation the entire game, and had to deal w/ officials allowing KC's DB's to interfere w/ them all day.

 

We're seeing now how Mahomes is when he doesn't have incredible receivers to throw to.  He isn't bored - he's just not on another level from Allen like many fans think.

 

Interesting. I seem to remember him winning MVP and SB MVP with Juju Smith-Schuster and MVS as his top WRs. And another SB MVP with scrub WRs last year. 

 

As for the excuses, let's not forget that he was playing on a high ankle sprain throughout the entire '22 playoff run, and that MVS was (by far) his best WR available in the '22 AFCC. Or that he had a third string OL in the 2020 playoffs and weak tackles/WRs the last two years, and has never been supported by an above average running game in the playoffs. 

 

I've never said that Mahomes is "on another level," btw. But I do think he's proven to be better. Largely due to the mental aspects of the game and his drive to win. 

[SaulGoodman]

On 10/26/2024 at 9:11 AM, ToGoGo said:

13 Seconds though. 
 

Allen has done the same time and time again. The team lets him down. 
 

Mahomes comes through, but so does Kelce and Butker time and time again. 
 

Another common narrative that falls apart under the microscope. 

Ah NOW the WR talent matters. 
 

Funny how that didn’t factor in when Mahomes had Hill and Kelce and Allen had Brown and Beasley and Gabe Davis. 
 

Another nonsense narrative. 

 

Lol. Allen has "no help" while throwing to Diggs/Davis/Shakir/Kincaid/etc, but Mahomes is expected to put up huge numbers with guys who can't even get on the field for bad teams (and a bum who was just cut by your Bills). 

[Success]

7 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Lol. Allen has "no help" while throwing to Diggs/Davis/Shakir/Kincaid/etc, but Mahomes is expected to put up huge numbers with guys who can't even get on the field for bad teams (and a bum who was just cut by your Bills). 

 

I've never seen anyone shift the goalposts as much as you consistently do.

 

[SaulGoodman]

34 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I've never seen anyone shift the goalposts as much as you consistently do.

 

 

How am I shifting goalposts?

Edited Sunday at 10:29 PM by SaulGoodman

[Awwufelloff]

If we lose to KC and they're 3 games ahead of us and already clinched the AFC east. No reason to play our starters with the chance of someone getting hurt. Division is essentially ours already.

[Success]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

How am I shifting goalposts?

 

Well, it's kind of when there is a goalpost - and you decide not to address that particular goalpost, and instead create another one. Or two.

 

Your undefeated team is a complete pretender, btw. They're not bored. They're just not as good as the Bills.

 

[ToGoGo]

5 hours ago, julian said:

Nobody is talking about the team achievements, Mahomes on another level is laughable.

 

 Nobody with a functioning prefrontal cortex would suggest that Aikman was on another level from Marino because of his achievements… you just have to use your eyes and watch them play the game of football.

 

History will shake out the prisoner of the moment narratives and shine light on what is really happening.

Prisoner of the moment is a great way to describe casual football conversation in general. 
 

No second level thinking. What happened in the past will be projected to the future into infinity, until the next new thing happens. 

[billsfan89]

Reid always made QB's look better than what they were. McNabb was an MVP candidate top 5 QB in the league for years under Reid. Vick was the best version of himself that one year under Reid when he was healthy and still at or near his prime athletically. Alex Smith also put in his best seasons under Reid as well. 

 

Mahomes is a generational talent and he's been able to reach his max level of success under Reid whose always gotten the most out of QB's. 

[Dr.Sack]

4 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Lol. You just described a huge portion of your fanbase. You most definitely didn't describe me. 

 

The prisoners of the moment are those who crowned Allen the GOAT when the Bills started 3-0. Then freaked out the next two games. Now back again. 

 

A few INTs don't erase what Mahomes has done the last 6 years. As much as some would like it to. 

 

I believe the INTs only serve to contextualize how good Reid and Spagnola are. We are talking about the games top minds on both sides of the ball. Mahomes aside how many coaches could get that poverty Chiefs offense to 7-0? 

 

[Billz4ever]

9 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

 

I believe the INTs only serve to contextualize how good Reid and Spagnola are. We are talking about the games top minds on both sides of the ball. Mahomes aside how many coaches could get that poverty Chiefs offense to 7-0? 

 

They still have Mahomes and still have Kelce and between them and the system they play in, seems to still work even with a meh WR group.

 

Not exactly the same, but also not unlike Brady with Gronk. Between those two and the system they played in, they did it without really needing superstar WRs either, unless we're considering dudes like Edelman and Amendola great.

[SaulGoodman]

17 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

 

I believe the INTs only serve to contextualize how good Reid and Spagnola are. We are talking about the games top minds on both sides of the ball. Mahomes aside how many coaches could get that poverty Chiefs offense to 7-0? 

 

 

That poverty offense happens to lead the league in success rate. And they just added Deandre Hopkins. 

 

[SaulGoodman]

4 hours ago, Success said:

 

Well, it's kind of when there is a goalpost - and you decide not to address that particular goalpost, and instead create another one. Or two.

 

I didn't ask what moving the goalposts means. I asked how I'm moving them. 

 

4 hours ago, Success said:

 

Your undefeated team is a complete pretender, btw. They're not bored. They're just not as good as the Bills.

 

 

Pretenders go 7-0 vs the toughest schedule in the league despite losing six starters, including their top three WRs and top RB?

 

Alas, another year without enough style points. Too bad. 

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

22 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

That poverty offense happens to lead the league in success rate. And they just added Deandre Hopkins. 

 

24.7 ppg is not a success. The D at 17.6 is propping up that O. 

[SaulGoodman]

4 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

24.7 ppg is not a success. The D at 17.6 is propping up that O. 

 

You judge the success of an offense purely by PPG? And you think they just happened to score exactly enough to win each of the last 13, vs the best the league has to offer? Lol.

 

The offense will score what's needed. If the defense is allowing under 18 ppg, why would they need to score more than 25? Reid's never been one to run up the score, and he gets very conservative when up double digits. This is nothing new.

 

Even looking at ppg alone, they're currently sitting at 9th and just added Hopkins. Not my definition of a "poverty" offense. I wouldn't expect any offense to average 30 per after losing most of their best skill players. But Hollywood Brown, Pacheco and Smith-Schuster should all be back by the postseason.

Edited 21 hours ago by SaulGoodman