Andy Reid: Myth or Mahomes

[Lost]

 

[hondo in seattle]

7 hours ago, folz said:

 

Last 5 seasons (2020 to game 7 this year):

 

REGULAR SEASON

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              56-15                21,959                  158                53

Allen                      53-20                21,684                  189                57

 

PLAYOFFS

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              11-2                   4,031                    30                  6

Allen                       5-4                  2,930                    25                  4

 

Now, of course, Pat has played 4 more playoff games than Josh in that span. So, if we do playoff game averages, it looks like this:

                            

Mahomes        310 yards/game    2.3 TDs/game    0.46 INTs/game

Allen                326 yards/game   2.7 TDs/game     0.44 INTs/game

 

So, Josh's game averages in the playoffs are slightly better in all three categories.

 

The two quarterback's stats are pretty darn even except for two areas. Josh has a significant lead in overall TDs, while Patrick, obviously, has the playoff wins/record and SBs (which I get it, is the most important thing...but it is also a team sport).

 

WHAT IF Buffalo won the last two playoff meetings with KC (which were both down to the wire---KC was obviously the better team when they first met in the AFC championship game).

 

Pat's playoff record (from 2020 on) would then be 7-3 with one Super Bowl win

Josh's playoff record (from 2020 on) would be anywhere from 7-4 (if they lost the games following the KC games) to 11-2 (if they made and won the two SBs). Obviously it would probably be somewhere in between those two things (but Josh would have had a crack at two Super Bowl appearances).

 

With those two playoff games, we are talking what, a total of 1-2 plays in each game that determined the outcomes. If they went the Bills way, Josh would have the better playoff record and possibly a Super Bowl as well. With that and the fact that it is a team game, and weighing in injuries, etc. I find it pretty hard to separate the two quarterbacks in any meaningful way.

 

imo, Josh is right there, side-by-side with Mahomes as the only two tier-1 QBs in the league right now. Prove to me that Mahomes is better. Does Bass missing a field goal and Levi Wallace not being able to cover Kelce make Mahomes a better QB than Allen? Like I said, it's a team game. 

 

Ok, one last point/example.

 

From 1990-1996 Mark Rypien had a better playoff win percentage than either Kelly or Marino and he won a Super Bowl, which neither of the other two were able to do. But, does anyone think that Rypien was a better overall QB than Marino or Kelly? Even though the QB is the most important factor, it still takes an entire team to win in the playoffs/Super Bowls. Plus there is luck, injuries, circumstances that weigh in as well. So, if you are just looking at the two QBs in a vacuum, I don't think playoff record should be a determining factor, especially when Josh has played so well in the playoffs (I mean he has probably two of the best playoff games ever by a Qb---the perfect Pats game and 13 seconds).

 

This is a great post and rebuts the popular view.  I think nationally, people see Allen as surpremely talented but reckless with the ball and a turnover machine.  

 

I admit that when I watch Mahomes, I do think he's a better decision maker.  Yet these numbers might argue not.  

[ToGoGo]

7 hours ago, folz said:

 

Last 5 seasons (2020 to game 7 this year):

 

REGULAR SEASON

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              56-15                21,959                  158                53

Allen                      53-20                21,684                  189                57

 

PLAYOFFS

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              11-2                   4,031                    30                  6

Allen                       5-4                  2,930                    25                  4

 

Now, of course, Pat has played 4 more playoff games than Josh in that span. So, if we do playoff game averages, it looks like this:

                            

Mahomes        310 yards/game    2.3 TDs/game    0.46 INTs/game

Allen                326 yards/game   2.7 TDs/game     0.44 INTs/game

 

So, Josh's game averages in the playoffs are slightly better in all three categories.

 

The two quarterback's stats are pretty darn even except for two areas. Josh has a significant lead in overall TDs, while Patrick, obviously, has the playoff wins/record and SBs (which I get it, is the most important thing...but it is also a team sport).

 

WHAT IF Buffalo won the last two playoff meetings with KC (which were both down to the wire---KC was obviously the better team when they first met in the AFC championship game).

 

Pat's playoff record (from 2020 on) would then be 7-3 with one Super Bowl win

Josh's playoff record (from 2020 on) would be anywhere from 7-4 (if they lost the games following the KC games) to 11-2 (if they made and won the two SBs). Obviously it would probably be somewhere in between those two things (but Josh would have had a crack at two Super Bowl appearances).

 

With those two playoff games, we are talking what, a total of 1-2 plays in each game that determined the outcomes. If they went the Bills way, Josh would have the better playoff record and possibly a Super Bowl as well. With that and the fact that it is a team game, and weighing in injuries, etc. I find it pretty hard to separate the two quarterbacks in any meaningful way.

 

imo, Josh is right there, side-by-side with Mahomes as the only two tier-1 QBs in the league right now. Prove to me that Mahomes is better. Does Bass missing a field goal and Levi Wallace not being able to cover Kelce make Mahomes a better QB than Allen? Like I said, it's a team game. 

 

Ok, one last point/example.

 

From 1990-1996 Mark Rypien had a better playoff win percentage than either Kelly or Marino and he won a Super Bowl, which neither of the other two were able to do. But, does anyone think that Rypien was a better overall QB than Marino or Kelly? Even though the QB is the most important factor, it still takes an entire team to win in the playoffs/Super Bowls. Plus there is luck, injuries, circumstances that weigh in as well. So, if you are just looking at the two QBs in a vacuum, I don't think playoff record should be a determining factor, especially when Josh has played so well in the playoffs (I mean he has probably two of the best playoff games ever by a Qb---the perfect Pats game and 13 seconds).

It’s clear as day if you can read data. 
 

Allen >= Mahomes

Bills < Chiefs 

 

Great job with the playoff win loss projections if those 50/50 plays went the other way. About time somebody did that. 
 

Simply put, anybody that say Mahomes is clearly better than Allen is wrong. 
 

The universe has a way of balancing things out, so you can predict what the next 5 years will bring. Allen holding trophies. 

[Billl]

7 hours ago, folz said:

 

Last 5 seasons (2020 to game 7 this year):

 

REGULAR SEASON

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              56-15                21,959                  158                53

Allen                      53-20                21,684                  189                57

 

PLAYOFFS

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              11-2                   4,031                    30                  6

Allen                       5-4                  2,930                    25                  4

 

Now, of course, Pat has played 4 more playoff games than Josh in that span. So, if we do playoff game averages, it looks like this:

                            

Mahomes        310 yards/game    2.3 TDs/game    0.46 INTs/game

Allen                326 yards/game   2.7 TDs/game     0.44 INTs/game

 

So, Josh's game averages in the playoffs are slightly better in all three categories.

 

The two quarterback's stats are pretty darn even except for two areas. Josh has a significant lead in overall TDs, while Patrick, obviously, has the playoff wins/record and SBs (which I get it, is the most important thing...but it is also a team sport).

 

WHAT IF Buffalo won the last two playoff meetings with KC (which were both down to the wire---KC was obviously the better team when they first met in the AFC championship game).

 

Pat's playoff record (from 2020 on) would then be 7-3 with one Super Bowl win

Josh's playoff record (from 2020 on) would be anywhere from 7-4 (if they lost the games following the KC games) to 11-2 (if they made and won the two SBs). Obviously it would probably be somewhere in between those two things (but Josh would have had a crack at two Super Bowl appearances).

 

With those two playoff games, we are talking what, a total of 1-2 plays in each game that determined the outcomes. If they went the Bills way, Josh would have the better playoff record and possibly a Super Bowl as well. With that and the fact that it is a team game, and weighing in injuries, etc. I find it pretty hard to separate the two quarterbacks in any meaningful way.

 

imo, Josh is right there, side-by-side with Mahomes as the only two tier-1 QBs in the league right now. Prove to me that Mahomes is better. Does Bass missing a field goal and Levi Wallace not being able to cover Kelce make Mahomes a better QB than Allen? Like I said, it's a team game. 

 

Ok, one last point/example.

 

From 1990-1996 Mark Rypien had a better playoff win percentage than either Kelly or Marino and he won a Super Bowl, which neither of the other two were able to do. But, does anyone think that Rypien was a better overall QB than Marino or Kelly? Even though the QB is the most important factor, it still takes an entire team to win in the playoffs/Super Bowls. Plus there is luck, injuries, circumstances that weigh in as well. So, if you are just looking at the two QBs in a vacuum, I don't think playoff record should be a determining factor, especially when Josh has played so well in the playoffs (I mean he has probably two of the best playoff games ever by a Qb---the perfect Pats game and 13 seconds).

You just sliced up their careers in a way that removed a Super Bowl winning season and an MVP season away from Mahomes and two mediocre at best seasons from Josh.  Why stop there?  

 

[ToGoGo]

26 minutes ago, Billl said:

You just sliced up their careers in a way that removed a Super Bowl winning season and an MVP season away from Mahomes and two mediocre at best seasons from Josh.  Why stop there?  

 

Because Allen broke out in 2020. It’s a huge sample size. Allen is and has been the better QB. 
 

It’s been a nice ride, after the Chiefs playoff exit this year you should get used to a lot of losing and coming up short from now on. Long way down. 

[folz]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

You just sliced up their careers in a way that removed a Super Bowl winning season and an MVP season away from Mahomes and two mediocre at best seasons from Josh.  Why stop there?  

 

 

😆

 

At the end of their careers, we can add everything up (all seasons) to make the full comparisons.

 

But I was looking at right now. Currently, in this moment, on the field, is Josh playing as good as Patrick. [Please note, I wasn't arguing that Josh is better than Mahomes, just that Josh is on the same level as Pat. Think like the Brady/Manning years. Peyton was just as great a QB as Brady, but Brady had the hardware.]

 

The reason I didn't include the 2018 and 2019 seasons is that I don't think that is a fair comparison. Patrick was in his second year in 2018, having had a whole year to learn from the bench, and he was already more pro-ready than Josh. Pat went to a team that was already a yearly playoff participant, with a seasoned coach who had already been in KC for 6 years (already built up the culture, etc.). Josh was from a small school and about as raw as they get coming out, in his rookie year in 2018, with a team that was rebuilding, whose first-time head coach had been there for only 1 season, and a brand new GM. Josh wasn't even supposed to start right away, but got thrust into the starting line-up and had to learn on the fly.

 

So, I'm not taking away Super Bowls and MVPs from Mahomes, I was just trying to look at the two players on as even a footing as possible. Of course Super Bowls and MVPs will always count on looking at a guy's overall career. But right now, on the field, Sunday to Sunday, are they at least equal in play. Of course Patrick was better than Josh in 2018 and 2019 for all of the reasons I stated. Not trying to erase anything.

 

Look, I think Mahomes is a phenomenal, generational QB and unless Josh wins a few Super Bowls, Pat will always be seen as better and rank higher on everyone's lists, etc. I was just trying to show that over the last 5 seasons (outside of the hardware), Josh has been every bit as good as Mahomes on the field. It's not a knock on Mahomes, it's just trying to finally get Josh his due.

 

Let me ask you this, if you were making a ranking of quarterbacks in tiers, would you have Mahomes as the only guy in Tier 1, with Josh clearly in Tier 2? Or would you have Josh with Patrick in Tier 1? Just curious. (I'm hoping you're not one of those guys that has QBs like Jackson, Burrow, and Herbert over Josh.)

[uninja]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is a great post and rebuts the popular view.  I think nationally, people see Allen as surpremely talented but reckless with the ball and a turnover machine.  

 

I admit that when I watch Mahomes, I do think he's a better decision maker.  Yet these numbers might argue not.  

 

The thing with Mahomes is that, as he's managed to prove a few times now, when you GOTTA have it, he gets it. Might never statistically be the best but when everything is on the line...

[folz]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is a great post and rebuts the popular view.  I think nationally, people see Allen as surpremely talented but reckless with the ball and a turnover machine.  

 

I admit that when I watch Mahomes, I do think he's a better decision maker.  Yet these numbers might argue not.  

 

To be fair on the turnovers, I'll include fumbles.

 

Over the same span (2020-week 7 this year), Pat has 24 fumbles to Josh's 41 fumbles. So, I'm sure that weighs in to people's perceptions about Josh's turnovers and recklessness.

 

However, when you look at fumbles lost  (actual turnovers) over the same time period: Pat has lost 9 fumbles and Josh has lost 20.

 

So, overall, Josh has 15 more turnovers than Patrick over the last 74 games (11 fumbles and 4 INTs). Or, 1 more turnover every 5 games (3.4 more per season).

 

But then there is the TD total again. Josh has 31 more TDs than Mahomes over that stretch. That is 217 more points. Turnovers equate to 4 points on average for opposing teams. So, Josh's 15 extra turnovers equates to minus 60 points. Subtract the turnovers from the TDs, and Josh is still on top in points by 157 (obviously Pat still has the hardware though). Most fans and media do not weigh in the fact that Josh has so many more TDs than any QB over the last five years against their perception of his turnovers/recklessness.

[Jukester]

Obviously Patrick Mahomes 

 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/360003653862532?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

[Mikie2times]

10 hours ago, folz said:

 

Last 5 seasons (2020 to game 7 this year):

 

REGULAR SEASON

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              56-15                21,959                  158                53

Allen                      53-20                21,684                  189                57

 

PLAYOFFS

                             Record           Total Yards          Total TDs         INTs

Mahomes              11-2                   4,031                    30                  6

Allen                       5-4                  2,930                    25                  4

 

Now, of course, Pat has played 4 more playoff games than Josh in that span. So, if we do playoff game averages, it looks like this:

                            

Mahomes        310 yards/game    2.3 TDs/game    0.46 INTs/game

Allen                326 yards/game   2.7 TDs/game     0.44 INTs/game

 

So, Josh's game averages in the playoffs are slightly better in all three categories.

 

The two quarterback's stats are pretty darn even except for two areas. Josh has a significant lead in overall TDs, while Patrick, obviously, has the playoff wins/record and SBs (which I get it, is the most important thing...but it is also a team sport).

 

WHAT IF Buffalo won the last two playoff meetings with KC (which were both down to the wire---KC was obviously the better team when they first met in the AFC championship game).

 

Pat's playoff record (from 2020 on) would then be 7-3 with one Super Bowl win

Josh's playoff record (from 2020 on) would be anywhere from 7-4 (if they lost the games following the KC games) to 11-2 (if they made and won the two SBs). Obviously it would probably be somewhere in between those two things (but Josh would have had a crack at two Super Bowl appearances).

 

With those two playoff games, we are talking what, a total of 1-2 plays in each game that determined the outcomes. If they went the Bills way, Josh would have the better playoff record and possibly a Super Bowl as well. With that and the fact that it is a team game, and weighing in injuries, etc. I find it pretty hard to separate the two quarterbacks in any meaningful way.

 

imo, Josh is right there, side-by-side with Mahomes as the only two tier-1 QBs in the league right now. Prove to me that Mahomes is better. Does Bass missing a field goal and Levi Wallace not being able to cover Kelce make Mahomes a better QB than Allen? Like I said, it's a team game. 

 

Ok, one last point/example.

 

From 1990-1996 Mark Rypien had a better playoff win percentage than either Kelly or Marino and he won a Super Bowl, which neither of the other two were able to do. But, does anyone think that Rypien was a better overall QB than Marino or Kelly? Even though the QB is the most important factor, it still takes an entire team to win in the playoffs/Super Bowls. Plus there is luck, injuries, circumstances that weigh in as well. So, if you are just looking at the two QBs in a vacuum, I don't think playoff record should be a determining factor, especially when Josh has played so well in the playoffs (I mean he has probably two of the best playoff games ever by a Qb---the perfect Pats game and 13 seconds).

 

I take a lot of crap here when I defend Mahomes in this debate but I just think it's the honest conclusion. 

 

Mahomes has played 14 playoff game that didn't involve a Super Bowl and he has only played 2 wild card games. Josh has had 5 of his 10 games in the wild card. The competition gets much more difficult in each round. What Mahomes has done in the Divisional and Championship round has never been done before. 28 TD and 2 INT, nearly 70%, and almost 300 yards per game. 

 

Stats from Divisional and Championship round

 

 

 

Josh has been excellent as well, but Mahomes is all time good in this spot. Then the comebacks and the record. He has 3 comebacks in the Super Bowl after being down 10 points or more. He is 5-2 in the playoffs when down by 10 points or more. Josh doesn't have a come from behind win in the postseason. He should of had one with 13 seconds but Mahomes should of had one in his first AFC championship game when Brady beat him in nearly identical circumstances as Mahomes beat Allen. 

 

Josh is playing better right now but we have to win in the postseason. When that happens it will change everything. 

[SaulGoodman]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:27 PM, Orlando Buffalo said:

How long does Josh need to outplay Mahomes for him to be better? We are sitting at a season and a half where Josh has been definitely better 

 

Yes, his numbers have definitely been better over the last season and a half. Which is less than a third of their careers. 

 

Let's see Allen put up the same numbers with WRs like Toney, Moore, Hardman, JJSS, MVS, a rookie Worthy, etc, and poor tackle play. Also, it's pretty clear that Nagy is a big step down from Bienemy, and that Brady's been very beneficial for Allen. 

 

It's interesting that the same people who discredit Mahomes' accomplishments based on personnel differences don't acknowledge that Allen's offensive personnel advantages the last two years have played a big role in the stats. Do people think that Mahomes just suddenly lost the ability to put up numbers? 

 

I think it's also pretty clear that Mahomes is somewhat bored with the regular season at this point. As evidenced by the switch flipped last postseason, when he became nearly perfect after a very imperfect regular season. He's just doing enough to win, and doing it while all his top skill players are dropping like flies. 

[SaulGoodman]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:28 PM, julian said:

I watch Allen outplaying Mahomes on a regular basis, regular season and postseason.

 

different level ? Lol

 

Josh Allen’s Ranking in Playoffs All-Time

Total TD’s per Game      1st 🥇 
Total Yards per Game    1st 🥇 
Fewest INT’s per Game 1st 🥇 
 
*Minimum 10 Starts

 

It never seems to be mentioned that there's a big difference in sample size and strength of opponents.

 

Allen's played in one championship game and played poorly. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that Mahomes' stats in the WC/divisional rounds are unmatched. Mahomes' less impressive playoff performances happened in championship games and Super Bowls, against some of the best defenses in modern times.

[US Egg]

Playoff Pat is better than Playoff Josh.

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yes, his numbers have definitely been better over the last season and a half. Which is less than a third of their careers. 

 

Let's see Allen put up the same numbers with WRs like Toney, Moore, Hardman, JJSS, MVS, a rookie Worthy, etc, and poor tackle play. Also, it's pretty clear that Nagy is a big step down from Bienemy, and that Brady's been very beneficial for Allen. 

 

It's interesting that the same people who discredit Mahomes' accomplishments based on personnel differences don't acknowledge that Allen's offensive personnel advantages the last two years have played a big role in the stats. Do people think that Mahomes just suddenly lost the ability to put up numbers? 

 

I think it's also pretty clear that Mahomes is somewhat bored with the regular season at this point. As evidenced by the switch flipped last postseason, when he became nearly perfect after a very imperfect regular season. He's just doing enough to win, and doing it while all his top skill players are dropping like flies. 

Mahomes had Tyreek Hill and Kelce for the part of his career where he was so amazing while Josh has had receivers who are all garbage once they leave Buffalo besides possibly Diggs. The offensive talent surrounding them is not a huge advantage for Allen, if at all.  Mahomes not caring about the regular season would seem inaccurate with the way he complained about the Bills game last year. 

 

I also did not bash Mahomes, and I am not just some homer, I acknowledge at this point of this season LJ should be MVP, you just want to point at SB wins and make that end of discussion 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

On 10/24/2024 at 10:16 PM, DeepPass said:

I get a bit tired of hearing Andy is the BEST NFL Coach. He's coached 26 years as a Head Coach with a career record of 264-144-1.  A winning record of .647%

 

He failed at every Super Bowl opportunity BEFORE drafting Patrick Mahomes in 2018.  In 2019, with Mahomes really running the show., Andy got his 1st Super Bowl win.  The rest is history.

 

Sean McDermott is 78-43 in Buffalo.  That's a 645% winning record.  Josh Allen isn't as good as Mahomes.  I wish he was !  Mahomes just plays the game at a different level.

 

The day will come when the Bills win a Super Bow with Sean!!

Your proof is that his win % is lower?! I honestly feel bad for you. Must settle for less in other areas of life too 

[ToGoGo]

9 hours ago, uninja said:

 

The thing with Mahomes is that, as he's managed to prove a few times now, when you GOTTA have it, he gets it. Might never statistically be the best but when everything is on the line...

13 Seconds though. 
 

Allen has done the same time and time again. The team lets him down. 
 

Mahomes comes through, but so does Kelce and Butker time and time again. 
 

Another common narrative that falls apart under the microscope. 

8 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yes, his numbers have definitely been better over the last season and a half. Which is less than a third of their careers. 

 

Let's see Allen put up the same numbers with WRs like Toney, Moore, Hardman, JJSS, MVS, a rookie Worthy, etc, and poor tackle play. Also, it's pretty clear that Nagy is a big step down from Bienemy, and that Brady's been very beneficial for Allen. 

 

It's interesting that the same people who discredit Mahomes' accomplishments based on personnel differences don't acknowledge that Allen's offensive personnel advantages the last two years have played a big role in the stats. Do people think that Mahomes just suddenly lost the ability to put up numbers? 

 

I think it's also pretty clear that Mahomes is somewhat bored with the regular season at this point. As evidenced by the switch flipped last postseason, when he became nearly perfect after a very imperfect regular season. He's just doing enough to win, and doing it while all his top skill players are dropping like flies. 

Ah NOW the WR talent matters. 
 

Funny how that didn’t factor in when Mahomes had Hill and Kelce and Allen had Brown and Beasley and Gabe Davis. 
 

Another nonsense narrative. 

[Beck Water]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:16 PM, DeepPass said:

I get a bit tired of hearing Andy is the BEST NFL Coach. He's coached 26 years as a Head Coach with a career record of 264-144-1.  A winning record of .647%

 

He failed at every Super Bowl opportunity BEFORE drafting Patrick Mahomes in 2018.  In 2019, with Mahomes really running the show., Andy got his 1st Super Bowl win.  The rest is history.

 

I think we need to make the point that in 2019, Mahomes was not "running the show".  He was the QB.  And Mahomes was drafted in 2017, not 2018.  And in 2018 (Mahomes first year playing) the Chiefs lost in the Division round.   Also you said "failed at every Superbowl opportunity", Reid had one (1) previous superbowl opportunity in 19 years before Mahomes.

 

I'm gonna ignore the rest of your post because why go there, but the part I left makes a very valid point: the very year before Mahomes started, in 2017,  Reid and the Chiefs had a very successful NFL offense.  #1 in rush Y/A, #6 in NY/A passing, #2 in INT.   

 

And the Chiefs lost in the WC round , and Tony Dungy (who might know a thing about coaching football) said on national TV that "the chiefs might win a Superbowl, but not with Andy Reid as their coach".  

 

That's how Reid was seen - as a successful regular season coach that couldn't get his teams "over the hump" in the off-season.

 

Until he could.  And Mahomes has undoubtedly been the difference maker.  But in Mahomes first season playing, he was supported by a proven successful offense with the whole deal - strong OL, strong run game (#6 for Y/A), top TE and top RAC WR

[Sojourner]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think we need to make the point that in 2019, Mahomes was not "running the show".  He was the QB.  And Mahomes was drafted in 2017, not 2018.  And in 2018 (Mahomes first year playing) the Chiefs lost in the Division round.   Also you said "failed at every Superbowl opportunity", Reid had one (1) previous superbowl opportunity in 19 years before Mahomes.

 

I'm gonna ignore the rest of your post because why go there, but the part I left makes a very valid point: the very year before Mahomes started, in 2017,  Reid and the Chiefs had a very successful NFL offense.  #1 in rush Y/A, #6 in NY/A passing, #2 in INT.   

 

And the Chiefs lost in the WC round , and Tony Dungy (who might know a thing about coaching football) said on national TV that "the chiefs might win a Superbowl, but not with Andy Reid as their coach".  

 

That's how Reid was seen - as a successful regular season coach that couldn't get his teams "over the hump" in the off-season.

 

Until he could.  And Mahomes has undoubtedly been the difference maker.  But in Mahomes first season playing, he was supported by a proven successful offense with the whole deal - strong OL, strong run game (#6 for Y/A), top TE and top RAC WR

Doesn’t matter. Stats only reflect how they want to be interpreted by the investigator. Be it sample size, specifics or bias for what they are implying. 
 

At least that’s what I’ve got from a few of the posts in this thread who use/highlight them. 
 

Stats are great when you encompass the whole perspective top to bottom and not single identifiers or outliers for your point whilst omitting those that potentially discredit. 

[Boatdrinks]

8 hours ago, US Egg said:

Playoff Pat is better than Playoff Josh.

Playoff Pat has far better Coaching and Defense than Josh has to work with. The importance of these is magnified in the playoffs. 

[julian]

9 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

It never seems to be mentioned that there's a big difference in sample size and strength of opponents.

 

Allen's played in one championship game and played poorly. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that Mahomes' stats in the WC/divisional rounds are unmatched. Mahomes' less impressive playoff performances happened in championship games and Super Bowls, against some of the best defenses in modern times.

And it never seems to be mentioned that Allen is putting up those historic playoff numbers with donkeys for offensive coordinators, a fence post for a head coach and some guys on offense, while Mahomes has Andy Reid drawing up plays that involves throwing to multiple HOF pass catchers.

 

 No matter the spin you want to put on it, Mahomes has had more team success for some obvious reasons, outplaying Allen isn’t one of them.