Do you believe there will be a civil war within your lifetime?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

worth the read

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-trump-american-civil-war-b2634731.html

[4th&long]

I don’t see it happening. People fight online, maybe in family get together. Where I live ,wherever I go, no one talks about politics. I see yard signs, the life size ones of trump and laugh. There is a few houses within a half hour of us that are all decorated for trump. One has so much stuff I stopped to take a picture of it to send to my trump loving brother, I thought he would get a kick out of it. It doesn’t bother me, I laugh, and would never consider vandalizing it.. that is for juvenile’s. Some of you people need to chill out. There is not going to be any type of civil war. 
 

although I do expect this country to turn fascist. I’m not saying it will be trump who does it. But 20-30 years ago a guy like him would not have near enough support. No one would tolerate any kind of fascist talk. If nothing else I think he is greasing the wheel for the future, it will grow. Democracy will die, maga will turn into a fascist movement. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, 4th&long said:

I don’t see it happening. People fight online, maybe in family get together. Where I live ,wherever I go, no one talks about politics. I see yard signs, the life size ones of trump and laugh. There is a few houses within a half hour of us that are all decorated for trump. One has so much stuff I stopped to take a picture of it to send to my trump loving brother, I thought he would get a kick out of it. It doesn’t bother me, I laugh, and would never consider vandalizing it.. that is for juvenile’s. Some of you people need to chill out. There is not going to be any type of civil war. 
 

although I do expect this country to turn fascist. I’m not saying it will be trump who does it. But 20-30 years ago a guy like him would not have near enough support. No one would tolerate any kind of fascist talk. If nothing else I think he is greasing the wheel for the future, it will grow. Democracy will die, maga will turn into a fascist movement. 

this election is the fork in the road.  trump wins, the second paragraph almost certainly happens..  He loses and the fascist movement almost certainly dies.  Who would take his place as the future fuhrer?  MTG?  Vance?  Little Lindsey?  nah, none of the have them weird appeal to the losers that the orange man does.

 

conversely, civil war is likely to occur sooner if trump loses and eventually, regardless on who wins, it will happen.  We are on the downward slope of the inflection point where the next generation of unskilled workers doesn't do better than the last.  That's not going to change.  The global economy has it baked in.  As it gets worse, regardless of who is prez, unrest will result.  History predicts which group will attack the other.

Edited Friday at 01:39 PM by Joe Ferguson forever

[K D]

12 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

this election is the fork in the road.  trump wins, the second paragraph almost certainly happens..  He loses and the fascist movement almost certainly dies.  Who would take his place as the future fuhrer?  MTG?  Vance?  Little Lindsey?  nah, none of the have them weird appeal to the losers that the orange man does.

 

conversely, civil war is likely to occur sooner if trump loses and eventually, regardless on who wins, it will happen.  We are on the downward slope of the inflection point where the next generation of unskilled workers doesn't do better than the last.  That's not going to change.  The global economy has it baked in.  As it gets worse, regardless of who is prez, unrest will result.  History predicts which group will attack the other.

So you admit that after Trump wins the Left is going to get violent. It's only going to take 1 idiot protester in a mob to shoot a cop and then get fired back upon. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, K D said:

So you admit that after Trump wins the Left is going to get violent. It's only going to take 1 idiot protester in a mob to shoot a cop and then get fired back upon. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

reading comprehension is not your thing.  here:

trump loses = civil war

trump wins = fascism.

[K D]

24 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

reading comprehension is not your thing.  here:

trump loses = civil war

trump wins = fascism.

Trump loses = communism 

Trump wins = freedom 

 

This is fun 😊 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

18 minutes ago, K D said:

Trump loses = communism 

Trump wins = freedom 

 

This is fun 😊 

It is if you are completely detached from reality. 

[SCBills]

24 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

It is if you are completely detached from reality. 

Disregarding cliche buzzwords and whatnot.. here is my true worry with Kamala Harris as someone who isn’t living paycheck to paycheck and has the economy as a concern. 
 

1) Kamala Harris is part of the Administration & political party that pushed for vaccine mandates and vaccine passports during Covid.  Pushed for lengthy lockdowns and consolidating power at the bureaucratic level.   If another covid type emergency, whether a virus, terror attack, something unforeseen etc., were to occur, they would do it again.  They don’t learn and want to memory hole what happened.  This is the instinctual response of the left in a crisis.  It just is.  Collective good greater than individual liberty, but they continue with that rationale even when the collective good becomes a fallacy. 
 

2) Censorship.  Only one side continually calls for censorship and suppression of narrative and stories they don’t like.  If Elon didn’t purchase X, we’d be in a very different world.  And due to that, he has become a political target of far too many on the left.   We see what’s happening with speech laws in Europe and I know that wouldn’t happen under Trump/Vance … I am concerned of the slow creep towards that style crackdown on speech by Harris/Walz.. as Walz is on video attacking the right to free speech under false context.  He doesn’t even understand the law.   And they are party that at its core, don’t believe in the right to free speech any longer.   They use terms like misinformation & disinformation to attack language they simply disagree with.  They cite experts as means to censor opposing thought and time & time again, those experts are proven wrong.  Covid, Hunters laptop and on and on. 
 

3) Pathway to Citizenship & the Border.  They saw how this model worked to make California a one party state and want to do it nationwide.   I am not for deporting a family that has been here for decades and has committed no crimes (beyond being here unlawfully), but there do need to be deportations of those coming here to commit crimes or abuse our welfare system with no plans to contribute to society.   And if Harris is elected and able to legalize millions of undocumented migrants, the electorate and our American culture is at risk of forever changing.  
 

I also don’t trust her in the border.  They went back to some Trump era EO’s because it’s election season.  But I don’t, for one instant, believe they won’t go back to pseudo-open borders.  The party isn’t run by Kamala Harris … it’s run by a machine, and one of the main goals of that machine is to do what was done under Biden.  
 

So, I’ll not speak of the economy, or the fact that as a straight whiten man, I feel the Democrat establishment loathes me and its fervent followers hate what I am…

 

Ill just leave you with those 3 bullet points as to why I’m voting for Trump/Vance to stop the machine.  
 

And if they don’t, at the very least, they slow down the rapid descent into a new America with unchecked government power, expansive control over our digital speech and the collapse of any unifying culture to bond us.  
 

You fear one man will be able to govern with unchecked power. 
 

I fear an entire bureaucratic machine being able to do so. 

 

Edited Friday at 03:10 PM by SCBills

[Artful Dodger]

I strongly doubt there will be a civil war, but if there is, it will be over quickly.  Most soldiers come from the red States, and red state citizens have more guns.  More importantly, the red states would have internal lines of communication, while the blue states are mostly on the coasts, separated by 3,000 miles of red state counties.  Also, even in states like California and Oregon, most of the areas outside of the major coastal cities are deeply red.   The red States could deal with the blue states and blue enclaves within the red states in a piecemeal fashion.  

[dgrochester55]

This election is more about populist vs. establishment than Democrat vs. Republican or Conservative vs. Liberal. If you look at the people who defected from each party and are voting opposite, you will see that pattern.  During the last election, when people were isolated in their homes, the media did a great job of conditioning people to believe what they said without question, even if there was chaos around them. However, three years of people seeing crime, inflation and employment issues around them while the media touts a much different rosy picture can take it's toll. If Trump wins, it will be because the democrats and Harris came off as tone deaf and out of touch. Harris has had plenty of time to sell her brand and has failed to do so numerous times. Even the media is no longer giving Harris unquestioned loyalty anymore at this point and she is losing momentum.

 

Regardless of who wins, I could see a little bit of an uprising and chaos from the other side.  Most people are voting against a candidate instead of for one. The media on both sides along with politicians have pushed for years why the other side is a "threat to democracy" or "ticket to communism". People are taking that to heart and will feel threatened if the candidate that they voted against gets in. I do not see it escalating to a full blown civil war, but I could see it turning into extended violence and protesting in some cities.

 

 

Edited Friday at 04:29 PM by dgrochester55

[Pokebball]

6 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

This election is more about populist vs. establishment than Democrat vs. Republican or Conservative vs. Liberal. If you look at the people who defected from each party and are voting opposite, you will see that pattern.  During the last election, when people were isolated in their homes, the media did a great job of conditioning people to believe what they said without question, even if their was chaos around them. However, three years of people seeing crime, inflation and employment issues around them while the media touts a much different rosy picture can take it's toll. If Trump wins, it will be because the democrats and Harris came off as tone deaf and out of touch. Harris has had plenty of time to sell her brand and has failed to do so numerous times. Even the media is no longer giving Harris unquestioned loyalty anymore at this point and she is losing momentum.

 

Regardless of who wins, I could see a little bit of an uprising and chaos from the other side.  Most people are voting against a candidate instead of for one. The media on both sides along with politicians have pushed for years why the other side is a "threat to democracy" or "ticket to communism". People are taking that to heart and will feel threatened if the candidate that they voted against gets in. I do not see it escalating to a full blown civil war, but I could see it turning into extended violence and protesting in some cities.

 

 

I disagree with trump being a populist, but I do see the reason you go there. trump's schtik is flipping off the establishment. That's what has made him popular. I think that's different than the historical definition of what a populist is.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

8 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I disagree with trump being a populist, but I do see the reason you go there. trump's schtik is flipping off the establishment. That's what has made him popular. I think that's different than the historical definition of what a populist is.

You were right on til the last sentence. If we want to distill it further, it’s establishment vs anti establishment.  Re covid, millions more would have died had not the mandates been in place. 
re censorship, there are plenty of places MAGAs can discuss their conspiracies including here. 
 

finally, in regards to the militaries role in a civil war, I believe it will be solely dependent on which tribe wins. 

[dgrochester55]

38 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I disagree with trump being a populist, but I do see the reason you go there. trump's schtik is flipping off the establishment. That's what has made him popular. I think that's different than the historical definition of what a populist is.

 

Fair point. My use of it represents more of a sentiment against the establishment than a historical populist such as Huey Long.

 

From the Great Recession to the mid part of last decade, people were sick of the Bush/Clinton/Romney types and looking for something different. Ron Paul had huge momentum before 2012 until Romney and the elite worked together to stamp that out. Trump and Sanders had a lot of momentum before 2016, but the difference in success was the Democrat's use of superdelegates to say "Too bad, we are picking Hillary anyway". I was looking forward to seeing the establishment toppled and wished that it had been anyone else but Trump, but when he won, I was glad to see an end to the whole Recycling Clintons and Bushes movement.

 

Some of this sentiment went away after the chaos of the 2020 election, but it is still strong. What people still do not like is a tone deaf administration and Biden and Harris has been this to many. I wish there were better choices. If any Republican besides Trump ran, Harris would be down 15-20 point. If the democrats had picked someone other than Harris after Biden stepped down, Trump would be down 15-20 points.

 

I really hope that both parties do better next time around.

Edited Friday at 04:31 PM by dgrochester55

[dgrochester55]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

reading comprehension is not your thing.  here:

trump loses = civil war

trump wins = fascism.

 

2 hours ago, K D said:

Trump loses = communism 

Trump wins = freedom 

 

This is fun 😊 

 

This perfectly sums up the sentiment of this election and tells me why things will be chaotic for awhile in a couple of weeks. People voted against someone instead of for someone this time around. That is not a recipe for a peaceful post election.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

 

 

This perfectly sums up the sentiment of this election and tells me why things will be chaotic for awhile in a couple of weeks. People voted against someone instead of for someone this time around. That is not a recipe for a peaceful post election.

we haven't been this close to civil war since the confederacy committed mass treason.  the sides are similar now.  Urban versus rural.    Educated versus uneducated.  More affluent versus less.   Establishment vs anti establishment. The exceptions, of course, were the leaders of the confederacy who were the slave holders and plantation owners and were attempting to exploit the entire country..  Economic issues were the primary motivation especially for the anti establishment.  Same as now...

[sherpa]

I served as an elections officer for five years.

I knew and met people who are extremely affluent, and many less so.

After a while of doing this, and engaging in conversation, which my small precinct allowed me to do, I concluded that there is no value in judging based on net worth, education or any of the myriad of other categorizations.

 

We have two very flawed candidates.

We need to get through this and get over this nonsense.

We don't have a Hitler or fascist, and the world is not going to end.

 

We have a somewhat narcissistic blowhard, and a leftist loon from an area that has destroyed effective government, and cannot answer a simple question.

 

Tough years ahead. Great for the media, but not for us, but we'll get over it.

[Orlando Buffalo]

4 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

This election is more about populist vs. establishment than Democrat vs. Republican or Conservative vs. Liberal. If you look at the people who defected from each party and are voting opposite, you will see that pattern.  During the last election, when people were isolated in their homes, the media did a great job of conditioning people to believe what they said without question, even if there was chaos around them. However, three years of people seeing crime, inflation and employment issues around them while the media touts a much different rosy picture can take it's toll. If Trump wins, it will be because the democrats and Harris came off as tone deaf and out of touch. Harris has had plenty of time to sell her brand and has failed to do so numerous times. Even the media is no longer giving Harris unquestioned loyalty anymore at this point and she is losing momentum.

 

Regardless of who wins, I could see a little bit of an uprising and chaos from the other side.  Most people are voting against a candidate instead of for one. The media on both sides along with politicians have pushed for years why the other side is a "threat to democracy" or "ticket to communism". People are taking that to heart and will feel threatened if the candidate that they voted against gets in. I do not see it escalating to a full blown civil war, but I could see it turning into extended violence and protesting in some cities.

 

 

Well said, especially populist vs establishment. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

we haven't been this close to civil war since the confederacy committed mass treason.  the sides are similar now.  Urban versus rural.    Educated versus uneducated.  More affluent versus less.   Establishment vs anti establishment. The exceptions, of course, were the leaders of the confederacy who were the slave holders and plantation owners and were attempting to exploit the entire country..  Economic issues were the primary motivation especially for the anti establishment.  Same as now...

What a stupid melodramatic rant. We were much closer a civil war in the late 60s with the race riots and Vietnam going on than we are now. Only people who run their lives through politics believe a civil war is even a remote possibility. No one is losing any version of rights that can't be remedied by simply moving to another state, so why kill someone when I can simply move to be where I want to be? It is amazing that you would kill someone in order to ensure you can raise taxes on the people who are richer than you

[Joe Ferguson forever]

13 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

What a stupid melodramatic rant. We were much closer a civil war in the late 60s with the race riots and Vietnam going on than we are now. Only people who run their lives through politics believe a civil war is even a remote possibility. No one is losing any version of rights that can't be remedied by simply moving to another state, so why kill someone when I can simply move to be where I want to be? It is amazing that you would kill someone in order to ensure you can raise taxes on the people who are richer than you

i wish I were being melodramatic. We will see unrest.  soon.  you're describing Balkanization which really isn't a good thing.  At all.  The difference from the race riots is that the current radicals have better organization and higher numbers.than those parties.  They mostly destroyed their own neighborhoods.  Don't think it'll be that way this time.

[Irv]

10 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

i wish I were being melodramatic. We will see unrest.  soon.  you're describing Balkanization which really isn't a good thing.  At all.  The difference from the race riots is that the current radicals have better organization and higher numbers.than those parties.  They mostly destroyed their own neighborhoods.  Don't think it'll be that way this time.