So why was Amari Cooper traded twice in his prime?

[dgrochester55]

To me, Cooper is a high end #2 or low end #1 receiver.  Not in the top ten, but well into the top 32.

 

Cooper was a star caliber WR on the Raiders, but traded to Dallas when Oakland was rebuilding.  In Dallas, he was good but not great. When Lamb emerged, they didn't want his 20 million in the cap. Cooper did well in Cleveland when Flacco was played, but didn't click with Watson(does anyone?)

 

He is a clear upgrade over what we had and has never played with a QB at the caliber of Allen before. If he can get past his drops, he may have a breakout year.

Edited Thursday at 03:05 PM by dgrochester55

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

No, it is not a legitimate question, asked as if there's some nefarious reason for this being his fourth team, as ridiculous as the comment in the OP that 'teams couldn't wait to get rid of him''--and clearly seems to be supporting that nonsense.

 

We see this in the media sometime, throwing out these loaded negative 'questions', and so spreading nonsense by 'simply asking a question'.

 

 

 

 

It was not nefarious.  It was a simple question.  Each team chose not to keep him because he wasn't worth keeping compared to what they could get for him.

 

Remember when everyone said Diggs wasn't a problem in Minny and claimed he would not be a problem here in Buffalo?  Well, clearly all of that was wrong---pointing this out early on in his Bills career isn't "nefarious".  Good players get traded for various reasons.  Sometimes it's just because a team doesn't want the guy anymore.

 

If you can't answer the simple question, that's ok too.  

[Mister Defense]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And he’s been an nfl player for 10 years-  again- we have eyes-  we can see that he’s a good player.  You can go search for one stat that says he’s not.  While we’ll listen to the world talk about how great cooper is.  
 

He has had issues with drops.  It’s one of the reasons he’s not considered elite by many standards.  Had he not had the drops, there wouldn’t really be any blemishes in his game.  Other than that- he’s great at high pointing the ball and contested catches, one of the best route runners in the league and shows up to play without crying about targets every season.  
 

what does Gabe do great other than run block?  
 

it’s hilarious that you’re still going to bat for this guy.  Even funnier that your using Gabe and coop in the same conversation, thanks to one stat.
 

 

He woke up on the same side of the bed this morning.  Looking to piss in cereals, per usual

 

Thanks, as when I hear the hate from poster like this, I often don't know if it is a pattern, often forget who the haters are, and their clear pattern of irrational nonsense, the pissing in the cereal. 

 

But ironically, if truly a Bills fan, and I really doubt it for many of the haters, pissing in their own cereal!

 

Yuk!  Who would do that!?

 

 

[NewEra]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

"ran out of town" is a joke here lol--fans can't run players out of town, despite what many here think (see the guy below, for instance).  but they were down on him for drops and low catch %--same as Cooper.  

 

 

Drops are drops--balls that should have been caught. His 1st target as a Bill was dropped.  He has 11 drops the past 7 games. 

 

Derek Carr is a career 65% passer, Josh Allen is 63%.  This season, Watson completed 63.4% of his passes first 6 games (that includes Cooper's 10 drops, of course).

 

I said Cooper is a legit #1WR for the Bills.  Where in that did you read "he's no good"?

Correct- drops are drops.  You also talked about catch percentage and their catch percentages are much different.  MUCH different when receiving passes from good QBs.  
 

Regarding the last sentence-  you asked what Amari’s “excuse”, this being his 4th team.  Why would amari have an excuse for being traded?  

Do you know why players are traded?  USUALLY 2 reasons:  their team is trash and they’d prefer to get draft picks in the upcoming draft for them to help with the rebuild (ie raiders and browns).  The other being salary cap (cowboys).  While I’m sure Amari doesn’t have an excuse, I’m quite sure those are the answers yours looking for.  yw

 

and Gabe still sucks

42 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Thanks, as when I hear the hate from poster like this, I often don't know if it is a pattern, often forget who the haters are, and their clear pattern of irrational nonsense, the pissing in the cereal. 

 

But ironically, if truly a Bills fan, and I really doubt it for many of the haters, pissing in their own cereal!

 

Yuk!  Who would do that!?

 

 

From my recollection, his post history is likely 85% dispute, 10% one liners, 5% good content.

 

He was a Gabe Davis apologist and he apparently can’t let go.  Comparing Amari Cooper to Gabe Davis as a way to put a spin of how bad we are as fans.  More good content

Edited Thursday at 03:49 PM by NewEra

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Correct- drops are drops.  You also talked about catch percentage and their catch percentages are much different.  MUCH different when receiving passes from good QBs.  
 

Regarding the last sentence-  you asked what Amari’s “excuse”, this being his 4th team.  Why would amari have an excuse for being traded?  

Do you know why players are traded?  2 reasons:  their team is trash and they’d prefer to get draft picks in the upcoming draft for them to help with the rebuild (ie raiders and browns).  The other being salary cap (cowboys).  While I’m sure Amari doesn’t have an excuse, I’m quite sure those are the answers yours looking for.  yw

 

and Gabe still sucks

 

The question was why would 4 teams trade him?  Players don't trade themselves.

 

The Bills traded Diggs--is it because they are "trash" or because they were dying of cap restriction (despite paying him 31 million not to play for them).  The answer, as you know, is neither.  They could stand him any more. 

 

All I have said is he is a legit #1 for the Bills and he has bad hands.  Neither you nor the other guy above can dispute this.  Your comparison of QBs completion % clearly didn't have the effect you were hoping for.  Sure, for instance, Watson sucks (he's always been a flash in the pan)....but his completion % isn't much different from anyone else you listed.  

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

"ran out of town" is a joke here lol--fans can't run players out of town, despite what many here think (see the guy below, for instance).  but they were down on him for drops and low catch %--same as Cooper.  

 

 

Drops are drops--balls that should have been caught. His 1st target as a Bill was dropped.  He has 11 drops the past 7 games. 

 

Derek Carr is a career 65% passer, Josh Allen is 63%.  This season, Watson completed 63.4% of his passes first 6 games (that includes Cooper's 10 drops, of course).

 

I said Cooper is a legit #1WR for the Bills.  Where in that did you read "he's no good"?

Lol I mean the main point was Watson has missed cooper at an alarming rate so when the ball does actually get to him im sure he’s not as dialed in as he would be in normal circumstances.  I read some stat a few weeks back that his off target percentage when targeting cooper was 45% which was the highest seen in over a decade 

 

im assuming watsons completion percentage is pumped up by a high amount of dumpoffs due to him holding the ball too long.  his yards per attempt is very close to bottom in the league...he’s down there with the Jacoby brissetts of the world 😂.
 

So his overall completion percentage is not at all a good indicator of how accurate he has been when targeting cooper 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 03:26 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

So you don't want to sign him but you don't want to let him go?

 

Resign and re-sign are not synonyms.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Lol I mean the main point was Watson has missed cooper at an alarming rate so when the ball does actually get to him im sure he’s not as dialed in as he would be in normal circumstances.  I read some stat a few weeks back that his off target percentage when targeting cooper was 45% which was the highest seen in over a decade 

 

im assuming watsons completion percentage is pumped up by a high amount of dumpoffs due to him holding the ball too long.  his yards per attempt is very close to bottom in the league...he’s down there with the Jacoby brissetts of the world 😂.
 

So his overall completion percentage is not at all a good indicator of how accurate he has been when targeting cooper 

 

 

 

The QB % was a means to compare Cooper's QBs, as NewEra was.  They all have about the same %.  Obviously Watson isn't Josh Allen, but he completes 63% of his passes this year and he has no real problem finding his TEs, for example.  Plus it is still true that Cooper dropped 10 passes in only 6 games.  That's not on Watson. 

[RkFast]

I have to be honest, I really dont care about a player's "passion for the game", whether he's a football lifer or just in it for the paycheck. The fact of the matter is that for most players, its the latter. Not that they dont care or are lazy, but at the end of the day, it is their job. Its why that even after tough losses...and the fans are all pulling our hair out over and yelling about it here or on WGR...the players and their girls are partying it up at a club somewhere or having a top dinner and fine wine at Buffalo's best restaurants. 

Edited Thursday at 03:50 PM by RkFast

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The QB % was a means to compare Cooper's QBs, as NewEra was.  They all have about the same %.  Obviously Watson isn't Josh Allen, but he completes 63% of his passes this year and he has no real problem finding his TEs, for example.  Plus it is still true that Cooper dropped 10 passes in only 6 games.  That's not on Watson. 

It is and it isn’t imo.  That’s probably personal taste though.  I’d give the guy the benefit of the doubt for dropping balls when he spends most of the game watching horrible passes sail over his head and into the dirt…it’s probably really hard to get in a rhythm that way.  
 

with all this diggs vs cooper talk I’ve been trying to envision how diggs would be acting on that browns team right now and it ain’t pretty 😂

[Mister Defense]

Just now, RkFast said:

I have to be honest, I really dont care about a player's "passion for the game", whether he's a football lifer or just in it for the paycheck. As long as he "does his job" and going by Cooper's career numbers, he does that. 

 

Yeah, it is the kind of comment by the OP, vague, no definition of what that 'extreme passion' means, no criteria stated for that trait--and ZERO actual evidence, facts, on why Cooper does not have that mysterious quality Mr. Dog so desires.

 

Add it all up and it just a smear job on Cooper, clearly. Pretty shameful to lambast our new  5 time Pro Bowl receiver, pulling things out of one's kiester--and presenting them as facts and analysis.

 

[brianthomas]

you cant look at these transactions in a vacuum. Look at the situations he was in prior to him being traded. I think its less about Cooper & more about those team situations

[ColoradoBills]

Have people watched Watson this year?  Using his completion % to compare to Josh (or any other QB) is insanity.

3rd and 10 and Watson throws a 5-yard completion to guy with a DB/LB right in front of him.

 

How was Cooper's numbers with Flacco?

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The question was why would 4 teams trade him?  Players don't trade themselves.

 

The Bills traded Diggs--is it because they are "trash" or because they were dying of cap restriction (despite paying him 31 million not to play for them).  The answer, as you know, is neither.  They could stand him any more. 

 

All I have said is he is a legit #1 for the Bills and he has bad hands.  Neither you nor the other guy above can dispute this.  Your comparison of QBs completion % clearly didn't have the effect you were hoping for.  Sure, for instance, Watson sucks (he's always been a flash in the pan)....but his completion % isn't much different from anyone else you listed.  

 

You’re exact question-  “What's Cooper's excuse, this being his 4th team?”  (Side note:  4 teams didn’t trade him- 3 did).

 

My point was- why would Cooper have an excuse?  The teams have reasons/excuses and I stated them for you.  Yes- there other reasons and I failed to cover my bases by using the word usually.  What I did do, was state why cooper was traded, ie, his excuses. 

No, that’s not all you said-  “His catch percent is in the Gabe Davis range---and Buffalo fans "ran him out of town" for that performance.”  You did as you always do, you took a shot at Bills fans, more specifically, Bills fans that opposed your view of Gabe Davis.  Fans that knew Gabe was a JAG, before he was a jag.  While you previously mentioned drops, you weren’t talking about drops in this instance, you were talking about CATCH PERCENTAGE.  My point stands- even if you are oblivious to it. 

[RkFast]

7 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Yeah, it is the kind of comment by the OP, vague, no definition of what that 'extreme passion' means, no criteria stated for that trait--and ZERO actual evidence, facts, on why Cooper does not have that mysterious quality Mr. Dog so desires.

 

Add it all up and it just a smear job on Cooper, clearly. Pretty shameful to lambast our new  5 time Pro Bowl receiver, pulling things out of one's kiester--and presenting them as facts and analysis.

 

 

I dont know if its a "smear job" or just looking to poke holes in a trade that even the Pope feels was a great move by the Bills. But either way...players come in all shapes and sizes and demeanors. As long as they perform.  I mean...we just got done with a player who was such a nutjob he would rant to the poor slob on the sidelines holding the tv microphones about the game. Now we have the opposite and thats a "problem" now? 

 

As far as his "catch percentage", Cooper is not perfect but his overall production is great. ALways amazing how some fans want the players to just be PERFECT in all respects. Its so weird. 

Edited Thursday at 04:00 PM by RkFast

[NewEra]

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

If you can't answer the simple question, that's ok too.  

The answer has been given several times in this thread.  Just read

[Mister Defense]

1 minute ago, RkFast said:

 

I dont know if its a "smear job" or just looking to poke holes in a trade that even the Pope feels was a great move by the Bills. But either way...players come in all shapes and sizes and demeanors. As long as they perform.  I mean...we just got done with a player who was such a nutjob he would rant to the poor slob on the sidelines holding the tv microphones about the game. Now we have the opposite and thats a "problem" now? 

 

As far as his "catch percentage", Cooper is not perfect but his overall production is great. ALways amazing how some fans want the players to just be PERFECT in all respects. Its so weird. 

Yes, and you ask several rational questions about this, but you are asking them as if the folks you are asking are rational thinkers, objective.

 

Like I have said before, within a few weeks of the Bills winning the Super Bowl, most of these same people will be at it again.  I think that is guaranteed.

 

A possible first question they will ask, once they give it a few days, a week?: "Can the Bills ever be considered great if they win one Super Bowl with Josh? And next year..."

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

25 minutes ago, RkFast said:

I have to be honest, I really dont care about a player's "passion for the game", whether he's a football lifer or just in it for the paycheck. The fact of the matter is that for most players, its the latter. Not that they dont care or are lazy, but at the end of the day, it is their job. Its why that even after tough losses...and the fans are all pulling our hair out over and yelling about it here or on WGR...the players and their girls are partying it up at a club somewhere or having a top dinner and fine wine at Buffalo's best restaurants. 

I think the vast majority care more than you think they do.   Because they dont process the loss the same as a fan or the way you think they should does not mean they care less.  What should they do, go to Burger King, then home and kick their dog and treat their family like crap?  

[Mr. WEO]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’re exact question-  “What's Cooper's excuse, this being his 4th team?”  (Side note:  4 teams didn’t trade him- 3 did).

 

My point was- why would Cooper have an excuse?  The teams have reasons/excuses and I stated them for you.  Yes- there other reasons and I failed to cover my bases by using the word usually.  What I did do, was state why cooper was traded, ie, his excuses. 

No, that’s not all you said-  “His catch percent is in the Gabe Davis range---and Buffalo fans "ran him out of town" for that performance.”  You did as you always do, you took a shot at Bills fans, more specifically, Bills fans that opposed your view of Gabe Davis.  Fans that knew Gabe was a JAG, before he was a jag.  While you previously mentioned drops, you weren’t talking about drops in this instance, you were talking about CATCH PERCENTAGE.  My point stands- even if you are oblivious to it. 

 

It would be hard to be on your 4th team if you have been been traded 4 times (good pickup lol). 

 

Anyway, Diggs wasn't traded for any of your 2 existing reasons for a trade--you may have to expand your list.

 

I have been talking about drops and catch % since I responded. Had Davis last year had as many targets as Cooper, he would have had about 1200 yards and 11 TD and 5 drops--- and no one would be saying he's terrible. 

 

Cooper doesn't have great hands--that's the topic being discussed.  

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:19 PM by Mr. WEO

[RkFast]

16 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think the vast majority care more than you think they do.   Because they dont process the loss the same as a fan or the way you think they should does not mean they care less.  What should they do, go to Burger King, then home and kick their dog and treat their family like crap?  

 

I understand. I just mean they aint all....Stephon Diggs. Its their job and their profession. And like any other workplace, theres a whole host of personalities. 

 

The example I use above is a real one. If you recall the Vikings at home heartbreaker of a loss a few years ago, the next day Von Miller was at his presser and was going on about how he, and Josh and a few other players and their girls all went out after the game to some popular high end Italian place and how much of a great night they had.  I mean...the entire Bills Mafia was seeing sideways from an all time terrible (regular season) loss, meanwhile a lot of the team was out having a good time.  Their approach isnt ours becuase its their job. YES, they work hard and are passionate about their craft. But there is this transactional element becuase it is their job. And just becuase some players are more "transactional" than others, that doesnt make them substandard or bad players you dont want on the team.  

Edited Thursday at 04:29 PM by RkFast