So why was Amari Cooper traded twice in his prime?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Even if I accept your premise my response is "oh no two years of starting caliber WR1/X receiver talent at reasonable price for a 30 year old WR" 

 

But ok, let's recap the genius minds who traded him

 

John Gruden who also traded away Khalil Mack so did amazing after the trade because he wanted his own version of the team (and was fired)

 

Jerry Jones decided that $20 million a year was too much to pay a #1 WR (oops) and the Browns are looking at a complete rebuild with that guaranteed Watson contract a millstone.

 

So I'm ok with those explanations 

[Punch]

Not to discount any points in the OP, but the Raiders, Cowboys and Browns are all poorly run franchises awash in disarray. Its worth pointing out they haven't made very many smart moves over the past decade.

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

If the trend holds and we get two excellent years from him, I'll be happy.

 

Coop, Shakir and Keon isn't a bad starting trio.  But whether we resign Coop or not, I think Beane needs to draft another quality wideout.  

 

I think it was Beane's plan to draft a WR next year, and to hope for the best riding with what we had for this year, thinking this wasn't the best team we were going to have.  That wasn't working and the team turned out to be better than he expected, so he made a move to challenge for the SB this year.  Drafting another WR next year is a great idea, so the new guy can learn the ropes.  Plus I think Cooper will turn out to be a rental we can't afford going forward.

[SCBills]

He was a cap casualty in Dallas and Jerry Jones wasn’t fond of Cooper’s Covid vaccine stance. 
 

Browns are in tear down mode and wouldn’t have traded him if Watson was A) healthy and B) any good. 
 

The fact they “might” trade the pillar of that team (Myles Garrett) in his prime, is an indication of the depths that franchise has sunken to at the moment. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

So you are saying Cooper isn't the best WR in football. Ok that is fair. 

He has to be at least top 15. Which makes us a much better team. Diggs was top 3 but is no longer. And I hated moving on from Diggs. 

The rest of the guys would struggle to be listed in the top 50 or maybe top 100. 

Top 50 may be harsh, but I basically agree with you.  

 

I wasn't dissing Cooper, or didn't intend to.  I agree that he's top 15 (or thereabouts), and that's great for the Bills. 

 

Cooper isn't Lamb, isn't Jefferson, isn't even Mike Evans. I'd compare him to Larry Fitzgerald - a guy whom I wouldn't call explosive, but I guy I definitely want on my team.  What I like about him, and what I liked about Fitzgerald, is that he knows his role and he does his job, and he's able to do it at a very high level. As I said in my earlier post, he's a perfect guy for McDermott - and unless Cooper hits a wall this season, I fully expect that he'll be back next season. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Jerry Jones didn’t want to pay him $20M a season so he got shipped to the Browns for almost nothing. Then $20M became a deal for WRs of his caliber. 

 

He only got traded this season because the Browns knew he was gone as a FA in the offseason and their current season is shot. 

And Jerry thought his salary was high because he COMPLETELY misjudged where the WR market was going within the next year/two years.

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Top 50 may be harsh, but I basically agree with you.  

 

I wasn't dissing Cooper, or didn't intend to.  I agree that he's top 15 (or thereabouts), and that's great for the Bills. 

 

Cooper isn't Lamb, isn't Jefferson, isn't even Mike Evans. I'd compare him to Larry Fitzgerald - a guy whom I wouldn't call explosive, but I guy I definitely want on my team.  What I like about him, and what I liked about Fitzgerald, is that he knows his role and he does his job, and he's able to do it at a very high level. As I said in my earlier post, he's a perfect guy for McDermott - and unless Cooper hits a wall this season, I fully expect that he'll be back next season. 

 

 

I don’t think that’s right — cooper’s insanely quick and precise foot movement and stop-start ability out of violent breaks are his forte, and while I wouldn’t say he’s unique in that regard, he is top five elite in that category. Fitzgerald was a contested catch monster and the prototype for deandre hopkins et al. Different elite skill sets. I’d also add that for many years, Fitzgerald was a top 3 receiver.

Edited 2 hours ago by dave mcbride

[Shaw66]

26 minutes ago, Utah John said:

I think it was Beane's plan to draft a WR next year, and to hope for the best riding with what we had for this year, thinking this wasn't the best team we were going to have.  That wasn't working and the team turned out to be better than he expected, so he made a move to challenge for the SB this year.  

I think you seriously misunderstand Beane, McDermott, and the Bills.  Yes, Beane may think that this team isn't as talented as next year's team may be, but McBeane think they are competing for a Lombardi this season.  They've thought that since the Bills lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs, and they've thought that whether they got Cooper or not.  They know, and I think most Bills fans know, that with McDermott and Allen, the Bills are in the hunt every season. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

His numbers dont scream "dominate" they are more steady and solid production. His best year is 1200 yards which is legit but in today's NFL you have tons of guys putting up those numbers. So I think its been a matter of his ceiling just being lower so if your spending big $$ it goes to someone else. 

1200+ yards receiving: 8 guys in 2022, 12 in 2023. Not quite 'tons'.  

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

I don’t think that’s right — cooper’s insanely quick and precise foot movement and stop-start ability out of violent breaks are his forte, and while I wouldn’t say he’s unique in that regard, he is top five elite in that category. Fitzgerald was a contested catch monster and the prototype for deandre hopkins et al. Different elite skill sets. I’d also add that for many years, Fitzgerald was a top 3 receiver.

Yes, maybe Fitzgerald was better than Cooper. 

 

The fact that he may be top five in one separate category of skills is really irrelevant. I just took a look back, and I think Cooper has been in the top 10 in receiving yards three times since he came into the league in 2015.  

 

As I've said, I think he's a good fit for the Bills. He's better, clearly better than any receiver on the roster (only Coleman has the talent to even hope to become what Cooper has been). He's a good fit because he fits what the Bills are trying to do generally, which is to have a collection of receivers who can run the entire route tree from many different formations. He's made a career of doing that. And he's important because in critical situations, the defense takes a big risk if they don't double him.  That's exactly what the Bills need, because Shakir, Coleman, and Kincaid all are good enough to take advantage when the defense is focusing on Cooper. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

This is a guy with prototypical size, decent speed, huge hands (same size as DHop, Diggs) for a WR. Very intelligent and a technician. Widely considered top receiver in his draft year (#5 overall).

 

I remember seeing articles and comments about him when he's traded. I think some of it might be true. He may not have an extreme passion for football; he just happens to be good at running routes and catching football. People at Buffalo have lots of complaints about Kelly, Bruce Smith etc. in their heyday. BUT, when they step in between the white lines, in Chuck Dickerson's words, "they love it too much", which carried to their off the field work habits and dedication.

 

If you look at Cooper's NFL career so far, his best years are the first two years with his new teams. Afterwards, his production dropped and teams couldn't wait to get rid of him.

 

The Bills are getting Cooper for the ride this season so everything seems to align for the team and him. Beyond the season though, I'd very cautious about giving him big money

 

Yeah, sure Oakland "couldn't wait to get rid of him" - in a "make me move!" situation, Dallas offered Oakland a first round pick for him!!!!

 

2022, I don't think Dallas wanted to get rid of him, but his salary and expiring contract with $20M made sense for Dallas to trade Cooper to the Browns.  They had CeeDee Lamb coming into his own on a rookie contract.  Jerry was cheap and wanted the money.  But because of the money, they only got a late round pick for him - a 5th or something, with a 6th back.  

[Bookie Man]

Randy Moss got traded twice. Pats got him for a 4th rounder.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

59 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Top 50 may be harsh, but I basically agree with you.  

 

I wasn't dissing Cooper, or didn't intend to.  I agree that he's top 15 (or thereabouts), and that's great for the Bills. 

 

Cooper isn't Lamb, isn't Jefferson, isn't even Mike Evans. I'd compare him to Larry Fitzgerald - a guy whom I wouldn't call explosive, but I guy I definitely want on my team.  What I like about him, and what I liked about Fitzgerald, is that he knows his role and he does his job, and he's able to do it at a very high level. As I said in my earlier post, he's a perfect guy for McDermott - and unless Cooper hits a wall this season, I fully expect that he'll be back next season. 

 

 

I would absolutely take 2017 Larry Fitzgerald on this roster 

 

Obviously I want to see more Amari Cooper before talking extension. The Bills are under the cap for 2025 but will have fewer levers to pull. Still if Beane likes he sees I can see a 3-4 year deal that is 1-2 in practice 

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

I remember seeing articles and comments about him when he's traded. I think some of it might be true. He may not have an extreme passion for football; he just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs....

 

If you look at Cooper's NFL career so far, his best years are the first two years with his new teams. Afterwards, his production dropped and teams couldn't wait to get rid of him.

 

The Bills are getting Cooper for the ride this season so everything seems to align for the team and him. Beyond the season though, I'd very cautious about giving him big money.

 

 

 

 

I don't get it, why so many hate posts, created out of thin air, with a bunch of nonsense and attacks, with zero, zilch to back up the trashing of a player or coaches?

 

 

Here, Mr. Dog  bashes our brand new 5 time Pro Bowl wide receiver, with NOTHING to back up extremely harsh, over the top nonsensical conclusions.

 

 

3 cases in point:

 

1.  Let me address the first phrase I put in bold in the OP above. Mr. Dog says: "He may not have an extreme passion for football; he just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs..." (emphasis added by me)

 

Huh? "Does not have an "extreme passion" for football-?  What exactly does that mean? How extreme do you think it should be? And what are your criteria for determining the extent of a player's "extreme passion for football"?  Why no evidence presented, zero, zlich, that Amari Cooper does not have this hyperbolic trait, the "extreme passion"? 

 

From the Bleacher Report, some quotes from long time coaches who knew him very well in college:

 

"Work ethic

 

Kynon Codrington worked on Saban’s Dolphins staff during the 2004 season and has since covered recruiting in that area, most recently for Bleacher Report.

When Mario Cristobal took Alabama’s offensive line coach job in February of 2013, Codrington texted the former FIU coach congratulations after he had gotten settled down. Cristobal told Codrington that Cooper was the hardest working player he’s been around."

 

And from his college coach, Nick Saban:

 

"He's just a really good person as well as a very, very good competitor.”

 

So from two coaches who knew him very well, the "hardest working player he's ever been around" and "very, very good competitor",  that from  a decent coach, Nick Saban. Mr. Dog, can you define "extreme passion" and give us your personal measuring tools for assessing this trait? 

 

Dog, Do you think there is a possibility that maybe Cooper did not just have an innate ability to run and catch? Is there a chance that he did not just wake up one day and find out, from out of nowhere, that he "just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs"?

 

When a loong time fairly respected coach and scout says Amari Cooper is the hardest working player he has ever known, and another emphasizes his special competitive nature, does that now satisfy your definition of 'extreme passion'?  Does it meet your high standard? Doesn't an extremely good work ethic and being extremely competitive, do that for you?

 

Instead, for you is there an outside chance that Amari Cooper applied his superior work ethic, very competitive nature and high character to get better and better and better... until he was one of the best receivers in college and then in the NFL? I know it would destroy your own OP, but do you think that is a possibility? And that maybe that shows the passion you imply Cooper does not have?

 

2. Mr. Dog says. "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him"

 

Huh? Can you back that extremely strong statement up with any evidence that teams really disliked him and "couldn't wait to get rid of him"?

 

Don't you think right now, (and since he has left), jerry jones would love a high level character guy and excellent worker like Amari Copper back on his team, a great route runner and separator, always there to give Prescott a good, clean very reliable option to throw the ball to?  Do you think that a team that is as lacking in character and discipline and work ethic as the cowboys, with every man for himself,  would be much better off with a man and player like Cooper on their very dysfunctional team?  I do.

 

But a player like cooper does not fit in well with jerry's guys. I say that is a huge mark in Cooper's favor, and, again, zero evidence to back up your ridiculous hate statement. 

 

And as far as Cleveland goes? They are done for the year, and likely for several years, and when teams are in that position they often trade good players, especially ones 30+, in order to get draft capital to rebuild their team.  I assume you did not know this fact? And again, no support for the nasty, unsupported definitive statement you make.

 

3. And Mr. Dog's last sentence, his summation of all the great evidence and related sharp analysis he has provided in the post: "I'd be very cautious about giving him big money."

 

Because Mr. Dog believes Cooper does not have the "extreme passion", a point that he does not support at all, but considers an essential trait,  and "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him", here again, with no evidence to support that, he believes he has made a very good case that the Bills should not consider signing this great player to an extension. 

 

I  think I am as critical as anyone when the team makes mistakes in players or coaches etcetera, though I can also be a homer too, like most of us, but I base my points on facts, evidence, not hate and completely biased irrational analysis.

 

 

 

Edited 25 minutes ago by Mister Defense