So why was Amari Cooper traded twice in his prime?

[ngbills]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Who has said he's a top tier WR in the class of a Ceedee Lamb? He is a #1 WR that can play outside. That's what this offense needed.

It is addressing why he has been traded twice. 

[mike22nc]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

yes.  

 

The numbers are similar, as you can see.  93 or 63,  52%, 54%.......

 

Why did we go from using exact numbers to rounding, and where did 54% come from? This isn't a good faith argument, so you're just a troll at this point.

[Mister Defense]

Hello Mr. Dog,

 

Just curious to find out when the information requested about your OP will be forthcoming?

 

I will repeat some of my questions from my posts here, and then check to find out what your responses are.  This may really help to clarify things for me and others.

 

Define "extreme passion for football" for us, please.  What does that mean, in concrete, specific terms?  What are the specific criteria you use to determine a player's "extreme passion for football"?  How do you differentiate between passion for football and extreme passion?

 

Then, please use your criteria to clearly show us why Amari Cooper does not have this trait.

 

As part of this, please let us know  what you found out in your research to prove your emphatic statement,  that  Cooper "just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs". Did you find out that he was born with those specific football traits, rather than do what most great athletes, passionate about their sport do, which is work their kiesters off, consistently, to get these skills? Let us know, please.

 

Then, please really elaborate on your point that  "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him".  What evidence do you have to support this statement that indicates Cooper was not just traded for the  usual reasons, but, instead, for that extremely negative reason--they wanted Cooper out of there so badly they could not wait to cut bait with this albatross on their team. Looking forward to your response, evidence, details.

 

Some extremely harsh criticisms of our new  5 time Pro Bowl wide receiver, someone who in his first game as a Bil, after being in Buffalo only a few days, caught 4 passes for 66 yards and a touchdown. And who clearly opened things up for the other Bills' receivers, including our new prized rookie, Keon Coleman, who had his best day as a pro, with 125 yards, and was just named NFL's Rookie of the Week.

 

Looking forward to finally finding out more about your criteria for your evaluation and finally viewing the evidence, details you have to support these very negative conclusions about Amari Cooper. Since I read your post I have been very concerned about the Cooper trade, think the Bills likely made a horrible mistake. Your answers, only enhancing your creative OP, will likely help me and others understand more about this albatross we may now have on our hands.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Mister Defense

 

 

Edited October 25 by Mister Defense

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, mike22nc said:

 

Why did we go from using exact numbers to rounding, and where did 54% come from? This isn't a good faith argument, so you're just a troll at this point.

 

typo--56 rounded up.

 

 

[PoundingDog]

12 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Looking forward to finally finding out more about your criteria for your evaluation and finally viewing the evidence, details you have to support these very negative conclusions about Amari Cooper. Since I read your post I have been very concerned about the Cooper trade, think the Bills likely made a horrible mistake. Your answers, only enhancing your creative OP, will likely help me and others understand more about this albatross we may now have on our hands.

Look this is a public opinion forum, not some official platform you have a standard in publishing what you say.

 

If you question my character for spreading false narratives, then you are wrong. I don't do that. If I have wrong information, so be it. I do have a friend who works for a sports agency representing professional athletes, a number of those agency in his career as a matter of fact. That's as far as I'd say about him here. I have heard some sordid stories that go far beyond your, well make it my to be forum correct, imaginations.

 

Since you pressed on me for things like Cooper's passion for football, just now I googled the subject. Sure enough, articles from an NBC station showed up https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/raiders/raiders-may-see-cooper-as-lacking-passion-for-football/205805/. It is old though, like 2018.

 

Sounds like you are very serious, I'm not sure about the Bills or about that your opinion of the Bills. I have my own profession and am very passionate/serious about it. I'm also loyal and serious to my friends. Take it easy on these entertainment forums.

[jcamm1966]

Hopkins on his 3 team

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

@DCofNC said the best. 

 

By the way, Joe Marino estimated for Cooper going forward, $20 million a year for a couple of year is a good number. I'd think he'd look for more, like longer term so that he gets bigger guaranteed money upfront.

 

 

 

Any years beyond 2 are there for show for a WR over 30.  It'll be structured with guarantees as a 2 year deal, with roster bonuses that force you to release him before free agency in year 3.  Restructure in year two to lower the cap hit, eat a dead hit in year 3.  

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/23/2024 at 4:16 PM, Brand J said:

I was talking to a Cowpokes fan about why Amari was moved and he said there was an entire ordeal about Cooper’s decision not to get vaccinated, that Jerry Jones didn’t take that well and there was sort of a falling out. He said it had much more to do with that than paying Cooper market value. 

Oh boy lol keep this to yourself or the whole stadium will boooo him 🤣 

[Mister Defense]

43 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Look this is a public opinion forum, not some official platform you have a standard in publishing what you say.

 

If you question my character for spreading false narratives, then you are wrong. I don't do that. If I have wrong information, so be it. I do have a friend who works for a sports agency representing professional athletes, a number of those agency in his career as a matter of fact. That's as far as I'd say about him here. I have heard some sordid stories that go far beyond your, well make it my to be forum correct, imaginations.

 

Since you pressed on me for things like Cooper's passion for football, just now I googled the subject. Sure enough, articles from an NBC station showed up https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/sports/raiders/raiders-may-see-cooper-as-lacking-passion-for-football/205805/. It is old though, like 2018.

 

Sounds like you are very serious, I'm not sure about the Bills or about that your opinion of the Bills. I have my own profession and am very passionate/serious about it. I'm also loyal and serious to my friends. Take it easy on these entertainment forums.

 

Okay, but you said extremely harsh, direct--and undermining-- things about Cooper with nothing at all to back them up, including saying his other teams couldn't wait to get rid of him, and questioning his passion for the game. To me, that is a "false narrative" and it is being 'spread' on a public forum.

 

In the link you provide, now, there is one man questioning his passion, and indications that originated by Jon Gruden, not known as a man of integrity or character himself.  And no evidence, details at all to show the lack of passion.

 

As you know, some people now, unfortunately, see anything in print, or in the media, and accept it as fact, gospel. I will continue to call BS when people go after Bills, defining them without support.  You should take it easy, and don't be so quick to condemn a player, a man, as this is an entertainment forum.

 

My parents did not name me Mister Defense for nothing.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25 by Mister Defense

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Okay, but you said extremely harsh, direct--and undermining-- things about Cooper with nothing at all to back them up, including saying his other teams couldn't wait to get rid of him, and questioning his passion for the game. To me, that is a "false narrative" and it is being 'spread' on a public forum.

 

In the link you provide, now, there is one man questioning his passion, and indications that originated by Jon Gruden, not known as a man of integrity or character himself.  And no evidence, details at all to show the lack of passion.

 

As you know, some people now, unfortunately, see anything in print, or in the media, and accept it as fact, gospel. I will continue to call BS when people go after Bills, defining them without support.  You should take it easy, and don't be so quick to condemn a player, a man, as this is an entertainment forum.

 

My parents did not name me Mister Defense for nothing.

 

 

 

 

Extremely L take. 
 

guy has been on 4 teams now by 30 years old. We can all agree he’s a good player, so he probably hasn’t just been traded because of his talent. 
 

You have zero evidence the OPs claims are wrong. Unsubstantiated with ironclad proof? Sure. False? You don’t know enough to even call them false.

 

There’s an article questioning Cooper’s football character that you handwaved away. Yeah, maybe Gruden was floating bad media stories to uh lower his trade value before they traded him? Is it gospel? No. But what evidence do you have besides “na na na that doesn’t count?”

Cooper wouldn’t be the first NFL player or even star who treats football like a job. It’s not an indictment on the man.

[PoundingDog]

27 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

but you said extremely harsh, direct--and undermining-- things about Cooper

I said "I think some of it might be true". I never associate myself to be an extremist but I guess a forum like this is a micro-level view of the whole society now that "if you don't agree with me, then you are an extremely harsh enemy".

[Mister Defense]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Extremely L take. 
 

guy has been on 4 teams now by 30 years old. We can all agree he’s a good player, so he probably hasn’t just been traded because of his talent. 
 

You have zero evidence the OPs claims are wrong. Unsubstantiated with ironclad proof? Sure. False? You don’t know enough to even call them false.

 

There’s an article questioning Cooper’s football character that you handwaved away. Yeah, maybe Gruden was floating bad media stories to uh lower his trade value before they traded him? Is it gospel? No. But what evidence do you have besides “na na na that doesn’t count?”

Cooper wouldn’t be the first NFL player or even star who treats football like a job. It’s not an indictment on the man.

 

Of course, you make great points--4 teams, so why not throw him under the bus with zero facts that the trades were because of his skills or character?  Very logical of you, as usual. As always?

 

I have zero evidence to refute the zero evidence of a post? Lol.  And go back and read some of my other posts in this thread.   I think there is a slew of evidence.

 

The article is just as I stated in my response--zero details to show his lack of passion, only one man, and it looks like Jon Gruden is that man from which he got his info.  But, yeah, for you, someone like Gruden probably is reliable and high character. Wouldn't be surprised if you have his poster on your bedroom wall..

 

And shoot, I hope the Bills can always find players who 'treat  football like a job', and go to 5 Pro Bowls because of that dedication.

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Amari Cooper is a pretty darn good NFL WR.

He's been traded 3 times.

Bills traded for him was a pretty good deal.

I fail to see what the problem is with these facts.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Oh boy lol keep this to yourself or the whole stadium will boooo him 🤣 

I was unaware of it at the time since I don’t follow Dallas, but there were loud cries from former players like Michael Irvin that Amari was “selfish” for not getting the vaccination. Florio said he was putting the entire team at risk. Once the media starts making it a divisive issue, it gets to be a snowball that grows and villainizes the player.
 

Dak had to speak publicly about it to defend Cooper and we all know how Jerry Jones felt about it, so it was an uncomfortable situation. If Amari had fallen in line and just got the vaccination, I don’t think he would’ve got traded to the Browns, even with the emergence of Lamb. They were quite happy with Cooper’s production and what he did for that offense. As far as the stadium booing, maybe 4 years ago but not now. Let’s just be glad the vaccination issue is a thing of the past.

[C.Biscuit97]

He’s been a boon or bust type guy. He’s a very good wr but gets paid like a great one.  I think your ceiling is limited if he’s your 1 but he certainly is a good to great 1B/2.

 

and he is a monster upgrade to this roster.

[Warriorspikes51]

23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He’s been a boon or bust type guy. He’s a very good wr but gets paid like a great one.  I think your ceiling is limited if he’s your 1 but he certainly is a good to great 1B/2.

 

and he is a monster upgrade to this roster.

 

the ceiling is apparently   11 for 265 and 2 TDs  with Joe Flacco throwing....Christmas Eve 2023 
 

pretty high limit area! 

[FireChans]

52 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Of course, you make great points--4 teams, so why not throw him under the bus with zero facts that the trades were because of his skills or character?  Very logical of you, as usual. As always?

 

I have zero evidence to refute the zero evidence of a post? Lol.  And go back and read some of my other posts in this thread.   I think there is a slew of evidence.

 

The article is just as I stated in my response--zero details to show his lack of passion, only one man, and it looks like Jon Gruden is that man from which he got his info.  But, yeah, for you, someone like Gruden probably is reliable and high character. Wouldn't be surprised if you have his poster on your bedroom wall..

 

And shoot, I hope the Bills can always find players who 'treat  football like a job', and go to 5 Pro Bowls because of that dedication.

 

 

Your assumption is that….

Gruden wanted to trade Amari for no reason.

 

Gruden leaked damaging, untruths about Amari to the media, potentially harming his value right before he traded him…. because Gruden is just a bad guy. (Also zero evidence it was Gruden, but while we’re taking leaps let’s do it lol)

 

Dallas traded for Amari for a first, paid him, then dumped him for a fifth a few years later. For no reason.

 

Cleveland traded for Amari, paid him, then dumped him for a third a few years later. For no reason.
 

And none of this means anything. lol.

Edited October 25 by FireChans

[Thurman#1]

On 10/24/2024 at 4:22 AM, Bills aPHILLYate said:

Why he was traded probably has more variables...

But if you frame your question from the perspective of "Why did 2 teams trade for Amari Cooper in his prime?", it probably yields more of a consistent answer.

Even if you incorporate the Bills for the 3rd trade; it's because he is a #1WR,  has consistently been productive and improves the pass catching stable pretty much everywhere he goes

 

 

 

Why did 2 teams trade Cooper in his prime?

 

Because both teams were headed for horrendous years (the Raiders went 4-12 that year and the Browns look like they're in that neighborhood) and both wanted to dump salary and pick up draft picks as part of a look towards the future.

 

That was the primary reason he was traded in-season in both cases. 

 

 

Edited October 25 by Thurman#1

[ColoradoBills]

LOL at some of the "theories" on this board.

 

2018 was Jon Grudens first year as HC.  He did a lot of wheeling and dealing.

New HCs tend to get their players and get rid of expensive (or soon to be expensive) players to acquire "their guys".

 

Amari was on his 4th year of his rookie contract and had his 5th year option already picked up.

In the 6 games for the Raiders Cooper was 22 of 31 for 280 (12.7 Y/R) 1 TD and a 71% completion percentage.

Hardly bad stats.

He was TRADED before they committed to a long-term contract and got back their 1st rounder.

 

Stuff like this happens all the time with new Head Coaches.  Are we really saying Gruden's 2nd stint as HC for the Raiders

with his 22-31 record was doing a lot of smart things?

 

 

[Thurman#1]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Your assumption is that….

Gruden wanted to trade Amari for no reason.   (Um, no, that's not "his assumption." It's instead your apparent misunderstanding of the very good reasons they let him go. The same reasons losing teams looking to the future trade good players for draft picks every single year when the present is awful and they want to look to the future. It's anything but "no reason." They dealt away Khalil Mack at nearly the same time. Was that also because he sucked? LaCanfora reported on the Sunday morning [just before the Cooper trade] that everything was for sale in Oakland.) The idea that there was no reason is just stupid.

 

Gruden leaked damaging, untruths about Amari to the media, potentially harming his value right before he traded him…. because Gruden is just a bad guy. (Also zero evidence it was Gruden, but while we’re taking leaps let’s do it lol) Um, OK, let’s take leaps. Why would Gruden put something in an email that might leak that was against his own self-interest? Golly, great question. It isn’t as if Gruden is a guy with a history of leaked emails in which he said stupid, rude things that would be against his own self-interest. That would never happen. Gruden is famous for his reticence, his cool head, and for never going against his own interest in emailed communica … oh, wait.

 

Dallas traded for Amari for a first, paid him, then dumped him for a fifth a few years later. For no reason. (Good Lord, no reason? You may be the first person in the history of the world to say that saving $16M is "no reason."

 

Saying there was no reason is disingenuous. Dallas was in salary cap trouble and they saved $16M by trading him. I myself would not call $16M “no reason” in any possible way.

 

They had CeeDee Lamb as their number one and Gallup as a guy who looked like he was developing into a good #2 and was younger and cheaper and had TD weaons as well. “No reason”? Please.

 

Cleveland traded for Amari, paid him, then dumped him for a third a few years later. For no reason. Again, “no reason” is either willful misunderstanding or flat-out ignoring the facts.

 

This kind of trade happens multiple times a year. Teams that are greatly underachieving their own expectations gain a bit of a more realistic POV and start looking to the future by dumping salary, trading away guys who would require big contracts, especially older guys requiring big contracts, and start collecting draft picks.

 

It's the opposite of “no reason,” it’s a wildly obvious reason.

 

And none of this means anything. lol. (Again, that's just you pretending that there was "no reason" for these outcomes when the reasons were obvious. It means plenty. It means that lots of guys get traded for lots of reasons. Some of them go on to help their new teams a ton.)

 

 

Um, no, that's not his assumption at all. You're drastically mis-stating what he appears to have assumed. What you did there is all on you, reflective instead of your apparent misunderstanding of the very good reasons that produced these moves.

 

Why did the Raiders let him go? The same reasons losing teams looking to the future trade good players for draft picks every single year when the present is awful and they want to look to the future. It's anything but "no reason." They dealt away Khalil Mack at nearly the same time. Was that also because he sucked? LaCanfora reported on the Sunday morning [just before the Cooper trade] that everything was for sale in Oakland.) The idea that there was no reason is just stupid.

 

Gruden leaked damaging, untruths about Amari to the media, potentially harming his value right before he traded him…"Also zero evidence it was Gruden, but while we’re taking leaps let’s do it lol", you say?

 

OK, let’s take leaps. Why would Gruden put something in an email that might leak that was against his own self-interest? Golly, great question. It isn’t as if Gruden is a guy with a history of leaked emails in which he said stupid, rude things that would be against his own self-interest. That would never happen. Gruden is famous for his reticence, his cool head, and for never going against his own interest in emailed communi … oh, wait. 

 

And did it go against his own interests? Gruden got a first for Cooper, just what he asked for.

 

"Dallas traded for Amari for a first, paid him, then dumped him for a fifth a few years later. For no reason," you say? Good Lord, no reason? You may be the first person in the history of the world to say that saving $16M is "no reason."

 

Saying there was no reason is disingenuous. Dallas was in salary cap trouble and they saved $16M by trading him. I myself would not call $16M “no reason” in any possible way.

 

They had CeeDee Lamb as their number one and Gallup as a guy who looked like he was developing into a good #2 and was younger and cheaper and had TD weaons as well. “No reason”? Please.

 

"Cleveland traded for Amari, paid him, then dumped him for a third a few years later. For no reason," you say?  Again, “no reason” is either willful misunderstanding or flat-out ignoring the facts.

 

This kind of trade happens multiple times a year. Teams that are greatly underachieving their own expectations gain a bit of a more realistic POV and start looking to the future by dumping salary, trading away guys who would require big contracts, especially older guys requiring big contracts, and start collecting draft picks.

 

It's the opposite of “no reason,” it’s a wildly obvious reason.

 

!And none of this means anything. lol," you say? Again, that's just you pretending that there was "no reason" for these outcomes when the reasons were obvious. It means plenty. It means that lots of guys get traded for lots of reasons. Some of them go on to help their new teams a ton.)

 

The fact is plenty of really good players have been traded multiple times. Some turned out to have problems. Diggs for one.

 

Plenty also turned out to be really good pickups for nearly every team they played for. Look at Anquan Boldin, for one. Ahmad Rashad. James Lofton. Joey Galloway. Keyshawn Johnson. Randy Moss (though he clearly did screw Oakland, but benefitted the Pats a ton). Wes Welker. Brandon Marshall, of course. 

 

There are tons of others.

 

Trades happen.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25 by Thurman#1