So why was Amari Cooper traded twice in his prime?

[Rigotz]

Option 1: Sign him to a team-friendly 1 year or 2 year deal. Zero concerns that he'll play hard and you can get out easy if he regresses OR trade him.

Option 2: Let him walk in Free Agency and get a 4th round, maybe 3rd round compensatory draft pick.

 

Either of these options are awesome and honestly, we could use our 1st and/or two 2nds to get a young, cheap WR to replace him if he walks. Next year you'd have Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, and our 1st round pick... plus the comp pick from Cooper next year. I'm cool with that.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It would be hard to be on your 4th team if you have been been traded 4 times (good pickup lol).

 

yes, I know, obv

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Anyway, Diggs wasn't traded for any of your 2 existing reasons for a trade--you may have to expand your list.

explained in the previous post

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I have been talking about drops and catch % since I responded. Had Davis last year had as many targets as Cooper, he would have had about 1200 yards and 11 TD and 5 drops--- and no one would be saying he's terrible. 
 

You’re still comparing Davis to Cooper….and saying that if Davis has the same targets as Cooper, we would’ve had the same stats….. oh man.  You are clearly missing the point here.  Davis is NOT GOOD.  Cooper IS GOOD.  You said yourself, cooper is a wR1.  Would you ever say Davis is?  Never.  Yet…..Davis would’ve been = to cooper if had he gotten the same targets——-which means what?

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Cooper doesn't have great hands--that's the topic being discussed.  

 

I’m not disputing that cooper.  Where did I say he did?  But now you’re saying that Davis would’ve been = to cooper last year if he had the same targets.  That is now a topic being discussed.  As was you banging on bills fans for “running Gabe out of town” due to his catch percentage…..while failing to mention everything else he sucks at.  Like playing WR

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

yes, I know, obv

explained in the previous post

You’re still comparing Davis to Cooper….and saying that if Davis has the same targets as Cooper, we would’ve had the same stats….. oh man.  You are clearly missing the point here.  Davis is NOT GOOD.  Cooper IS GOOD.  You said yourself, cooper is a wR1.  Would you ever say Davis is?  Never.  Yet…..Davis would’ve been = to cooper if had he gotten the same targets——-which means what?

I’m not disputing that cooper.  Where did I say he did?  But now you’re saying that Davis would’ve been = to cooper last year if he had the same targets.  That is now a topic being discussed.  As was you banging on bills fans for “running Gabe out of town” due to his catch percentage…..while failing to mention everything else he sucks at.  Like playing WR

 

not equal, no.  But close, given the numbers--as you can see.  So it "means" they would have had similar numbers if they had similar targets.  There's nothing tricky about that math.  

 

Cooper is the #1 on the Bills by default.  They don't otherwise have one.  

 

 

[mike22nc]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

not equal, no.  But close, given the numbers--as you can see.  So it "means" they would have had similar numbers if they had similar targets.  There's nothing tricky about that math.  

 

Cooper is the #1 on the Bills by default.  They don't otherwise have one.  

 

 

Why do you expect the catch percentage to not be dependent upon targets per route run? It would not be linear. As more targets are allocated to Gabe, I would expect his catch percentage to decrease.

 

He is thrown the ball when he gets open/creates separation. If he isn't either good at getting separation or good at contested catches, he isn't thrown the ball. If you throw him the ball more in the situations where he's closely guarded, he will catch less.

 

There are so many variables that go into it that you thinking you can look at catch percentage and extrapolate from there is a joke. You are using Travis Hunter logic.

 

There actually is quite a bit that is tricky about that math.

Edited October 24 by mike22nc

[Matt_In_NH]

52 minutes ago, RkFast said:

 

I understand. I just mean they aint all....Stephon Diggs. Its their job and their profession. And like any other workplace, theres a whole host of personalities. 

 

The example I use above is a real one. If you recall the Vikings at home heartbreaker of a loss a few years ago, the next day Von Miller was at his presser and was going on about how he, and Josh and a few other players and their girls all went out after the game to some popular high end Italian place and how much of a great night they had.  I mean...the entire Bills Mafia was seeing sideways from an all time terrible (regular season) loss, meanwhile a lot of the team was out having a good time.  Their approach isnt ours becuase its their job. YES, they work hard and are passionate about their craft. But there is this transactional element becuase it is their job. And just becuase some players are more "transactional" than others, that doesnt make them substandard or bad players you dont want on the team.  

So you dont go out to dinner with friends for some period of time after a Bills loss and that means you care more?

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Resign and re-sign are not synonyms.

 

I'm also all for resigning Groot.  Too inconsistent.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, mike22nc said:

Why do you expect the catch percentage to not be dependent upon targets per route run? It would not be linear. As more targets are allocated to Gabe, I would expect his catch percentage to decrease.

 

He is thrown the ball when he gets open/creates separation. If he isn't either good at getting separation or good at contested catches, he isn't thrown the ball. If you throw him the ball more in the situations where he's closely guarded, he will catch less.

 

There are so many variables that go into it that you thinking you can look at catch percentage and extrapolate from there is a joke. You are using Travis Hunter logic.

 

There actually is quite a bit that is tricky about that math.

 

His % (56.5, 55.6, 51.6, 55.6) was pretty stable on the same team with the same QB and the same playbook despite being targeted 63 to 93 times....

[Deadstroke]

21 hours ago, ngbills said:

His numbers dont scream "dominate" they are more steady and solid production. His best year is 1200 yards which is legit but in today's NFL you have tons of guys putting up those numbers. So I think its been a matter of his ceiling just being lower so if your spending big $$ it goes to someone else. 

Of course, he never had Josh Allen throwing him footballs before.  Now he does, so we'll see, but I'm thinking this looks like a pretty good combo.

[mike22nc]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His % (56.5, 55.6, 51.6, 55.6) was pretty stable on the same team with the same QB and the same playbook despite being targeted 63 to 93 times....

Did the 51.6% come when he had 63 targets in 16 games, or perhaps was that when he received 93 targets in 15 games? If you think your response supports your argument, you don't know what you're looking at.

1 minute ago, mike22nc said:

Did the 51.6% come when he had 63 targets in 16 games, or perhaps was that when he received 93 targets in 15 games? If you think your response supports your argument, you don't know what you're looking at.

Put another way, if he instead received 140 targets rather than 93 that year, which direction do you think his catch % would have moved?

Edited October 24 by mike22nc

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, mike22nc said:

Did the 51.6% come when he had 63 targets in 16 games, or perhaps was that when he received 93 targets in 15 games? If you think your response supports your argument, you don't know what you're looking at.

Put another way, if he instead received 140 targets rather than 93 that year, which direction do you think his catch % would have moved?

 

yes.  

 

The numbers are similar, as you can see.  93 or 63,  52%, 54%.......

[DCofNC]

Money has been the biggest driver in it all.  The problem with Cooper is he’s a legit #1, but he’s not a super star per se.  So teams have had to choose, don’t pay a guy as a super star for only really good #1 production or do you move on?  Teams have moved on, but he’s always in demand.   He’s kind of a bigger Brandon Cooks in that regard.  Happy to have him here.

[Steptide]

Here's a better question - if the Browns were 5-2 or 6-1 right now, would they have traded him? I doubt it 

[PoundingDog]

@DCofNC said the best. 

 

By the way, Joe Marino estimated for Cooper going forward, $20 million a year for a couple of year is a good number. I'd think he'd look for more, like longer term so that he gets bigger guaranteed money upfront.

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

@DCofNC said the best. 

 

By the way, Joe Marino estimated for Cooper going forward, $20 million a year for a couple of year is a good number. I'd think he'd look for more, like longer term so that he gets bigger guaranteed money upfront.

 

 

 

If him and Josh work well,  3 for 70 with a couple void years 

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Deadstroke said:

Of course, he never had Josh Allen throwing him footballs before.  Now he does, so we'll see, but I'm thinking this looks like a pretty good combo.

True but...look at DAL. He put up decent numbers ~1100 yds. Then Lamb comes in and passes him up and within a couple years Lamb puts up 1700 yards. I think that is the logic around Cooper being a very good WR just not a top tier guy. 

Edited October 24 by ngbills

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

True but...look at DAL. He put up decent numbers ~1100 yds. Then Lamb comes in and passes him up and within a couple years Lamb puts up 1700 yards. I think that is the logic around Cooper being a very good WR just not a top tier guy. 

 

Who has said he's a top tier WR in the class of a Ceedee Lamb? He is a #1 WR that can play outside. That's what this offense needed.

[hmsmystic]

You can't blame the Browns for the move- they traded a 5th for him, got some good production, then when he turns 30 they trade him for a 3rd

[Warriorspikes51]

Cooper isn't talked about much because the guy doesn't run his mouth like many other talents at the position

His peers have stated within the past few seasons he is the best route runner in the league 

with Allen, he can likely produce as a Top 10 WR

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Had Davis last year had as many targets as Cooper, he would have had about 1200 yards and 11 TD and 5 drops--- and no one would be saying he's terrible. 

 

He would have had more targets if he earned them by getting open. His target share was a function of his limited skill set.

[Doc Brown]

From what I remember in his time with the Raiders and Cowboys was he shrunk in cold weather games.  I also remember him significantly elevating the Cowboys offense when they traded for him mid-season.  This was our biggest need and I'm cautiously optimistic he'll significantly help our passing game.