bigK14094 Posted October 23 Posted October 23 Is it time for the pool on how few int's Josh throws this year? Extrapolates to 0, but that is unlikely. I do recall a year Goff had only 4 though. So, need to keep the no INT game rolling. The MVP will be the caboose on that train. Quote
appoo Posted October 23 Posted October 23 At this point I'm enjoying the hell out of Lamar. He's playing the best ball in his life, and he's playing the position at an insanely high level. I have him ahead of Goff at the moment, because I think Allen has another level to him, and because of how bad he struggled in the Texans/Ravens game. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted October 23 Posted October 23 15 hours ago, Sojourner said: Don’t give that thing any weight anymore. There’s been three in recent years that I, and many others have, disagreed with: Manning over Brees (even though he got revenge and beat him in the SB), 2009 Rodgers over JJ Watt, 2014 Rodgers over Josh, 2020 Those 3 even though I disagreed with the choice, still could make sense of the actual winner being who they were. Last season though? Lamar over Josh? Yeah. Laughable. Guy had 10 more rushing TDs than “the best dual threat QB in the league”. Rodgers over Kupp 2021 was the worst. 1 Quote
appoo Posted October 23 Posted October 23 3 hours ago, T.E. said: Here's the only thing that matters when comparing Allen and Jackson: The Ravens would trade Lamar for Allen straight-up in a heartbeat, and the Bills would never make that deal. I don't think either club would take the other QB. Man we gotta enjoy both of these QBs rather than trying tear down Jackson. These guys are SPECIAL 3 Quote
Sojourner Posted October 23 Posted October 23 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Rodgers over Kupp 2021 was the worst. Eh, to some extent. But is Megatron doesn’t even get the OPOY in 2012 then you look at why, a receiver is more a product of the QB than a RB is (Adrian Peterson). Kupp saw 200 targets. That’s a boat load. If they included post season then absolutely, Kupp should have got the MVP award. Would actually argue why Rodgers got it over Brady that year… Quote
Mr. WEO Posted October 23 Posted October 23 Just now, Sojourner said: Eh, to some extent. But is Megatron doesn’t even get the OPOY in 2012 then you look at why, a receiver is more a product of the QB than a RB is (Adrian Peterson). Kupp saw 200 targets. That’s a boat load. If they included post season then absolutely, Kupp should have got the MVP award. Would actually argue why Rodgers got it over Brady that year… Kupp had the receiver triple crown that year. Only 4 players have done this in 60 years. This was in the regular season.... 1 Quote
T.E. Posted October 23 Posted October 23 23 minutes ago, appoo said: I don't think either club would take the other QB. Man we gotta enjoy both of these QBs rather than trying tear down Jackson. These guys are SPECIAL The Ravens would absolutely take Allen, if that trade was hypothetically offered. Their team with his passing ability would be almost unbeatable. Quote
Sojourner Posted October 23 Posted October 23 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Kupp had the receiver triple crown that year. Only 4 players have done this in 60 years. This was in the regular season.... I understand that. And am not diminishing anything in the regular season. Was just saying the playoff run on top of the regular season, given history of the MVP and receiving accomplishments, would be the criteria to undoubtably give him the MVP award. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted October 23 Posted October 23 3 minutes ago, Sojourner said: I understand that. And am not diminishing anything in the regular season. Was just saying the playoff run on top of the regular season, given history of the MVP and receiving accomplishments, would be the criteria to undoubtably give him the MVP award. MVP doesn't consider playoff performance---votes are counted before the playoffs start.. So, he should have gotten MVP based on his regular season Triple Crown. It's incredibly unique. Rodgers didn't even have his best season, nor did Brady. Kupp should have been a no brainer. They are 7-10 in the games he has missed since then. Now the Rams are calling it quits and looking (laughably) to unload a totally washed Stafford. 1 Quote
Sojourner Posted October 23 Posted October 23 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: MVP doesn't consider playoff performance---votes are counted before the playoffs start.. So, he should have gotten MVP based on his regular season Triple Crown. It's incredibly unique. Rodgers didn't even have his best season, nor did Brady. Kupp should have been a no brainer. They are 7-10 in the games he has missed since then. Now the Rams are calling it quits and looking (laughably) to unload a totally washed Stafford. I know. Which is why in both comments I put the “if” regarding the post season. I am not disagreeing with you for one second he wasn’t deserving. I’m talking about what I believe it would take for them to make Kupp be a “no brainer”. A WR, at that level, is as much a product of the QB throwing him the ball. Especially 200 times a season. Rodger’s didn’t have his best season, yes. Brady? That was Brady’s best career year he’s ever had. Easily. Most yards he’s thrown for in his career. 2nd highest stat line in his career for Attempts, Completions, Completion % and TDs. 4 of those stats he led the league, out of the 5 completion % was not; still top 10. Rodgers shouldn’t have won that, agreed. But you can make an argument, as much as we hate the guy, for Brady as much as you can for Kupp on the award snub. Quote
Mr. WEO Posted October 24 Posted October 24 17 hours ago, Sojourner said: I know. Which is why in both comments I put the “if” regarding the post season. I am not disagreeing with you for one second he wasn’t deserving. I’m talking about what I believe it would take for them to make Kupp be a “no brainer”. A WR, at that level, is as much a product of the QB throwing him the ball. Especially 200 times a season. Rodger’s didn’t have his best season, yes. Brady? That was Brady’s best career year he’s ever had. Easily. Most yards he’s thrown for in his career. 2nd highest stat line in his career for Attempts, Completions, Completion % and TDs. 4 of those stats he led the league, out of the 5 completion % was not; still top 10. Rodgers shouldn’t have won that, agreed. But you can make an argument, as much as we hate the guy, for Brady as much as you can for Kupp on the award snub. Do QBs lose consideration for having the most passing attempts? Of course not. So why should we even mention 191 (not 200) targets for a WR as exclusionary criteria for MVP? That number of targets is close to what the top receivers get every season. And he caught an incredible 76% of them them year. A "product of the QB"? Well every WR is a product of their QB---why bring it up? Stafford had Megatron for years in Detroit--one of the greatest ever. No triple crown. You could say Brady had his best year in 2021....if you didn't know 2007 existed: 50 TDs (a record at the time) vs only 8 ints, 69% completion, 4800 yards on only 578 attempts, undefeated. The only reason Kupp didn't win is because these chumps who vote have never voted a WR as MVP. It's a QB award. But yeah, Brady should have gotten it over Rodgers in 2021, by these criteria. Quote
Rich Stadium Original Posted October 24 Posted October 24 What gets lost in all of this is the intent of the award and what it has become. It should be awarded to the player who is most responsible for the success of his team. Instead, it has become a who is the best player in the NFL. Its a bit of a popularity contest, and maybe a bit political mixed in ( the anti- Allen crowd, etc) One could argue that Jackson has the best overall throwing stats through the first quarter of the season, but he his throwing to a more dynamic groups of WRs who are open more often providing easier targets and more RAC yardage. If you were to swap quarterbacks, I don't think Jackson would have been nearly as successful throwing to the receivers the Bills had on their roster. In that regard, Allen is more valuable to his team. Quote
Cray51 Posted October 24 Posted October 24 Allen needs a top 2 AFC Seed, under 5 INTs for the year and over 40 Total TDs. IF he does that, I could see him winning MVP. IMO right now Henry should be the MVP. He opens up so much for that offense, and if he ends the year with 2000 yards and 20 TDs it's an incredible accomplishment. Narrative will push Lamar to b2b MVPs and his 3rd. I dont think that should factor at all, but it 100% will with the media Quote
BearNorth Posted October 24 Posted October 24 If the Chiefs go 17-0, Mahomes will be the MVP. Right now they are favored in every game for the rest of the season, and they have a very easy path [Bills & Houston are the best teams remaining on the Chief's schedule]. Quote
Goin Breakdown Posted October 24 Posted October 24 Allen Ian in getting MVP. It will always be Lamar and Mahomes with a sprinkle here and there of someone else. Turnovers hurt Allen until this year when turnovers are all of a sudden less consequential. I listened to Troy Aikman downplay Allen's growth not turning the ball over while then going on to talk about how Mahomes turnovers are not all on him and so on. So do I think Allen deserve it? Heck yeah but I don't think there are many (influencers in the media) out there that will allow it to happen. JMO Quote
Sojourner Posted October 24 Posted October 24 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Do QBs lose consideration for having the most passing attempts? Of course not. So why should we even mention 191 (not 200) targets for a WR as exclusionary criteria for MVP? That number of targets is close to what the top receivers get every season. And he caught an incredible 76% of them them year. A "product of the QB"? Well every WR is a product of their QB---why bring it up? Stafford had Megatron for years in Detroit--one of the greatest ever. No triple crown. You could say Brady had his best year in 2021....if you didn't know 2007 existed: 50 TDs (a record at the time) vs only 8 ints, 69% completion, 4800 yards on only 578 attempts, undefeated. The only reason Kupp didn't win is because these chumps who vote have never voted a WR as MVP. It's a QB award. But yeah, Brady should have gotten it over Rodgers in 2021, by these criteria. You’re right Kroop Dog. 1 Quote
SaulGoodman Posted October 24 Posted October 24 Jackson's been excellent this year. Not sure he deserved MVP last year, but does this year, as of now. Quote
dma0034 Posted October 24 Posted October 24 55 minutes ago, BearNorth said: If the Chiefs go 17-0, Mahomes will be the MVP. Right now they are favored in every game for the rest of the season, and they have a very easy path [Bills & Houston are the best teams remaining on the Chief's schedule]. I just don't think you can do it with Mahomes throwing more picks than TDs. This is exactly what happened with Lamar last year but he actually had good numbers (not great). If Mahomes has 22 TDs and 18 picks and the Chiefs go 17-0 you simply can't give it to him Quote
ganesh Posted October 24 Posted October 24 3 hours ago, Cray51 said: Allen needs a top 2 AFC Seed, under 5 INTs for the year and over 40 Total TDs. IF he does that, I could see him winning MVP. IMO right now Henry should be the MVP. He opens up so much for that offense, and if he ends the year with 2000 yards and 20 TDs it's an incredible accomplishment. Narrative will push Lamar to b2b MVPs and his 3rd. I dont think that should factor at all, but it 100% will with the media Allen does not have a firepower offense to get to 40+ TDs. Plus Cook and Davis are eating into his rushing TDs. Quote
strive_for_five_guy Posted November 13 Posted November 13 Is Sunday the day Allen vaults himself back to the top of the MVP race? Lamar’s been playing great in recent weeks and currently the favorite, but beating the undefeated Chiefs should count for something, right? 1 Quote
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