the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[Mat68]

11 hours ago, GoBills! said:

No way Daboll should stay. 12 men in the field today after the off side penalty is just ridiculous. 

That was on purpose.  Give them the first with 0 time off the clock.  First and 10 v first and 5.  It was rightly declined.  

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

That’s what they always say lol. I think it’ll come down to losing the locker room more than the number of losses on paper but he’s probably gone after this year however you slice it

[C.Biscuit97]

I like Daboll as a WNY guy even if he went to SF. But imagine you are Lovie Smith who got fired after going 10-6 after taking Rex Grossman to a SB and Daboll keeps his job 😆.

 

also, besides with Allen which he deserves a ton of credit for helping develop, his resume sucks pretty bad. Is he really some sort of offensive genius? I’ll hang up and listen. 

[DapperCam]

I think Daboll's only chance is if the owner has been meddling with roster decisions and doesn't hold the results against Daboll/Schoen. For example, if the owner said sign Daniel Jones to a contract no matter what, their hands would have been kind of tied.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

Interesting how they will/have spin that Mora forced their hands with Jones. Imo after that playoff run you trade him at the height of his value. Probably get a top 15 pick.  Soft draft tag him and then let him walk.  Based off hard knocks Mora voiced his displeasure with the Barkley situation.  Still Mora let them make the decision.  They could have done the same with Jones.  Gettleman gets flamed but he left Shoen a better roster than he is leaving the next guy.  Poor roster construction.  Beane and Mcdermott had conviction to do this job with their QB.  Daboll and Schoen had fake conviction.  Kinda drought Bills where they hedge their decisions so it couldn't be “their” fault. 

 

This is Mora:

 

 

 

This is Mara:

 

 

56 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Exactly it was actually a smart play. I was thinking at the time if I’m the DT I am just encroaching early but cowboys declined the penalty so it doesn’t matter. Anyone who thinks that was a dumb 12 men penalty is not thinking straight. 

 

 

It was Thanksgiving... we were drinking...

 

Edited Friday at 03:47 PM by Sierra Foothills

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I think Daboll's only chance is if the owner has been meddling with roster decisions and doesn't hold the results against Daboll/Schoen. For example, if the owner said sign Daniel Jones to a contract no matter what, their hands would have been kind of tied.

Didn’t seem like that from the hard knocks clips…Mara was also like ‘saquon better not go to the eagles and play well’ so this is a situation where owner meddling might have improved the team 😂

 

I think the giants tried to trade up for drake maye and nobody would help them move up so mara probably told Daboll/schoen ‘you did your best get what you can out of jones and your jobs are safe this year’ but this is definitely getting way uglier than mara expected lol

Edited Friday at 04:00 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mat68]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I like Daboll as a WNY guy even if he went to SF. But imagine you are Lovie Smith who got fired after going 10-6 after taking Rex Grossman to a SB and Daboll keeps his job 😆.

 

also, besides with Allen which he deserves a ton of credit for helping develop, his resume sucks pretty bad. Is he really some sort of offensive genius? I’ll hang up and listen. 

No.  Did he develop Allen? Or did Allen develop Allen.  Allen worked on his motion to improve his consistency and motion.  Allen said as much that he matured in the Pats fame where he threw 3 picks and felt responsible for the loss.  
 

He has the Brady passing playbook.  Utilizing slot and full spectrum passing concepts. Something the Shannahan   System lacks.  Imo he is lacking in the run game.  Thats why at Alabama it worked because they had a talent advantage so the running game wasn't affected.  With Allen he had someone who could pass 40 plus times at a usually successful level. With lesser Qbs they dont have alot of running concepts to carry an offense.  Makes for a middling to bottom unit. 

[DapperCam]

30 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Didn’t seem like that from the hard knocks clips…Mara was also like ‘saquon better not go to the eagles and play well’ so this is a situation where owner meddling might have improved the team 😂

 

I think the giants tried to trade up for drake maye and nobody would help them move up so mara probably told Daboll/schoen ‘you did your best get what you can out of jones and your jobs are safe this year’ but this is definitely getting way uglier than mara expected lol

I wouldn't be surprised if Mara was very influential in that ridiculous 4 year extension of Jones. It made no sense at the time, and I doubt a GM would make that deal without ownership meddling.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

46 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I like Daboll as a WNY guy even if he went to SF. But imagine you are Lovie Smith who got fired after going 10-6 after taking Rex Grossman to a SB and Daboll keeps his job 😆.

 

also, besides with Allen which he deserves a ton of credit for helping develop, his resume sucks pretty bad. Is he really some sort of offensive genius? I’ll hang up and listen. 

 

I'll play along.

 

Well as host of this make believe radio show I'd say the Lovie Smith reference is totally out of left field and doesn't have much relevance. The Lovie Smith situation referenced was what 12 years ago? And even more puzzling is the fact that it was with a completely different franchise. I'm not seeing the connection. Also, for what's it worth, Lovie has a combined record of 11 -37 in the three seasons as HC since being fired by the Bears.

 

Smith was coach of the Bears for 9 seasons that's actually a pretty long run for a coach who never delivered a title for the team. McDermott is in his 8th year with the Bills and many have been calling for his ousting the last 2 seasons. Daboll is only in his 3rd year I believe with the Giants.

[Beck Water]

On 10/21/2024 at 1:45 PM, dave mcbride said:

People are focusing on Barkley carving the Giants up yesterday, but my god is their offense terrible. I know they lost their starting LT (Thomas), but 119 yards vs the Eagles D is just unacceptable. Before the season I thought that their d-line would make them a playoff contender (Thibadoux, Lawrence, Burns), and while the d-line has played well (and the defense overall has been pretty good), they look like a 4-13 team. I now think both Daboll and Schoen will be gone at the end of the season. I've long defended Daboll, who I think is a creative play caller (at least with the Bills), and I've excused his poor offenses because the QBs he has rolled out there before Josh Allen were all really bad. But while Daniel Jones isn't good, he's hardly Brady Quinn level. I see him as slightly to moderately below league average, but the team is now 30th in points, 27th in yards, and 29th in passing ypa. And they have a stud in Nabers, who is frankly more valuable already than Barkley would have been.

 

In 2022, when the Giants won enough games to go to the playoffs and won a game there, they looked like a well-coached football team.

 

There was no quit in them.  Everyone was "doing their job", and Daboll seemed to provide a "spark" on the sidelines.

 

I said at the beginning of last season 2023 that the Giants just did NOT look like a well-coached football team to me.  Their opening game, they came out and got their asses handed to them by Dallas.  Losing to a good team, and being on the losing end of a 40-0 drubbing, are two different things.

 

There's this phenomenon we see all the time in the NFL where an assistant coach/assistant GM will move to a new team and seem to do well for a year, then regress.  There are probably multiple reasons, including opponents not being quite sure what to expect the first year then having enough film to "solve" them while the coach doesn't continue to evolve.  

 

But I think part of it is that all these guys have egos.  The assistants looking up at the head guy think they can do a better job if they're running the show.  But maybe once they're in charge, they start to realize maybe their former boss "knew something" and they don't know as much as they think they know.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

In 2022, when the Giants won enough games to go to the playoffs and won a game there, they looked like a well-coached football team.

 

There was no quit in them.  Everyone was "doing their job", and Daboll seemed to provide a "spark" on the sidelines.

 

I said at the beginning of last season 2023 that the Giants just did NOT look like a well-coached football team to me.  Their opening game, they came out and got their asses handed to them by Dallas.  Losing to a good team, and being on the losing end of a 40-0 drubbing, are two different things.

 

There's this phenomenon we see all the time in the NFL where an assistant coach/assistant GM will move to a new team and seem to do well for a year, then regress.  There are probably multiple reasons, including opponents not being quite sure what to expect the first year then having enough film to "solve" them while the coach doesn't continue to evolve.  

 

But I think part of it is that all these guys have egos.  The assistants looking up at the head guy think they can do a better job if they're running the show.  But maybe once they're in charge, they start to realize maybe their former boss "knew something" and they don't know as much as they think they know.

I think there’s a really good argument that Daboll is not HC material. His operation has really suffered the last two years, but that happens to even good coaches when the lockerroom loses faith. 

 

I think he’s a good offensive coach tho. @BADOLBILZ is just waiting to annihilate me for that take as he always does, but I’m still firm. 

[frostbitmic]

The starting QB got demoted to scout squad Safety, who then went to the owner and asked for and was given his release.

 

The team is 0 fer a couple months now and counting.

 

They will need a new QB and although Daboll helped develop Josh,  he failed with Daniel Jones. Will Mara trust him with a rookie high draft pick next year ? ... At this point my crystal ball says someone else will be walking the Giants sideline next year.

[May Day 10]

Daboll is a clown who doesnt seem like he can handle the leadership role.  

 

I saw everything I needed to see when he stormed across the field to show Tyrod Taylor up on SNF.  Embarrassing his QB in order to pass blame off for clock mismanagement.  that behavior is beneath an nfl coach, and a quick glimpse that there probably isnt much respect between coach and players.  it shows.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think there’s a really good argument that Daboll is not HC material. His operation has really suffered the last two years, but that happens to even good coaches when the lockerroom loses faith. 

 

I think he’s a good offensive coach tho. @BADOLBILZ is just waiting to annihilate me for that take as he always does, but I’m still firm. 

 

 

You are probably just still fooled by the clever things you've seen from Daboll.   The majority of his career as a play caller has been him trying to get by on clever and failing.  Spectacularly at times.   It's my belief that he just doesn't work hard enough at his craft because he doesn't think he has to.  Way too overconfident in his ability.  I think the best coaches are systematic, detail oriented and always trying to gain more knowledge of the league/game.   That's not what I see with him.   

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Daboll is a clown who doesnt seem like he can handle the leadership role.  

 

I saw everything I needed to see when he stormed across the field to show Tyrod Taylor up on SNF.  Embarrassing his QB in order to pass blame off for clock mismanagement.  that behavior is beneath an nfl coach, and a quick glimpse that there probably isnt much respect between coach and players.  it shows.  

Remember the TBD-TSW threads about putting Daboll in the booth, just to keep him out of Allen's face when things went wrong?  Maybe my thoughts about him attending a Rageaholics Anonymous meeting previously weren't so far off the mark. 🤔😁

[jkeerie]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

In 2022, when the Giants won enough games to go to the playoffs and won a game there, they looked like a well-coached football team.

 

There was no quit in them.  Everyone was "doing their job", and Daboll seemed to provide a "spark" on the sidelines.

 

I said at the beginning of last season 2023 that the Giants just did NOT look like a well-coached football team to me.  Their opening game, they came out and got their asses handed to them by Dallas.  Losing to a good team, and being on the losing end of a 40-0 drubbing, are two different things.

 

There's this phenomenon we see all the time in the NFL where an assistant coach/assistant GM will move to a new team and seem to do well for a year, then regress.  There are probably multiple reasons, including opponents not being quite sure what to expect the first year then having enough film to "solve" them while the coach doesn't continue to evolve.  

 

But I think part of it is that all these guys have egos.  The assistants looking up at the head guy think they can do a better job if they're running the show.  But maybe once they're in charge, they start to realize maybe their former boss "knew something" and they don't know as much as they think they know.

Add to this that when a new HC takes over... it's a losing franchise likely playing a weak schedule due to how they finished in their division.  After year one and the improvement, that coach is now playing a tougher schedule and suddenly the team is not looking as good.

[Sierra Foothills]

16 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Daboll is a clown who doesnt seem like he can handle the leadership role.  

 

I saw everything I needed to see when he stormed across the field to show Tyrod Taylor up on SNF.  Embarrassing his QB in order to pass blame off for clock mismanagement.  that behavior is beneath an nfl coach, and a quick glimpse that there probably isnt much respect between coach and players.  it shows.  

 

Plus the Owner/GM/Head Coach dynamic is totally messed up. Whose decision was it to start Tommy DeVito over Drew Lock last week?

 

That move on the heels off making Daniel Jones play scout team safety caused a players revolt that was completely predictable and avoidable.

 

[Beast]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I like Daboll as a WNY guy even if he went to SF. But imagine you are Lovie Smith who got fired after going 10-6 after taking Rex Grossman to a SB and Daboll keeps his job 😆.

 

also, besides with Allen which he deserves a ton of credit for helping develop, his resume sucks pretty bad. Is he really some sort of offensive genius? I’ll hang up and listen. 

I don’t disagree with you. Daboll was also the author of a couple stinkers when he was our OC. Like most coaches, having an all-world QB makes you a better coach. 

[ganesh]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:38 AM, Kelly to Allen said:

I was extremely nervous before the 18 draft class as it was being compared to the 04 class. I knew that was such a massive moment 

 

Jets screwed it up again and repeated 1983 taking O'Brien over Marino. 

 

I'll forever be thankful the jets took Darnold over Allen. Typical jets 

I doubt Allen succeeds if he went to the Jets.  It was clear from Allen's rookie season that he was not ready for the NFL.  The Bills nurtured him to what he is today.  The Jets would have thrown him by the wayside.  It is tough to play and survive in that market.  Even a SB Quarterback Kurt Warner was kicked out of that market.