the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

The Eli era was a difficult one to manage. Coughlin found this out as did Ben McAdoo. Eli was revered by ownership and that had an effect on personnel decisions revolving around the QB position. Eli was given special consideration.

 

 

Talk about special consideration, Darnold coming to Buffalo as a backup would be a big helping of humble pie for him. He would have to signal via his agent that he would be good with it as opposed to going someplace he might be able to compete for a starting job. I don't think Darnold is a starter in the NFL but it doesn't matter what I think. I feel like it could be awkward for him backing up a QB that he was drafted 4 spots ahead of.

 

 

 

There's a lot of reasons why Josh became Josh, mostly to do with Josh. That being said, McBeane have to be given high grades for not ruining him, as many teams have done to many QBs. Individual talent and hard work only go so far in the NFL.

 

 

It's hard to say how much ownership has influenced the Giants' decisions however it seems like they didn't want to move on from Saquon. The organization used to have a reputation for being patient but lately they've cycled through lots of head coaches (McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Shurmur, and Judge in a 5 year period).

 

Gettleman and Shurmur drafted DJ but he was extended by Schoen and Daboll, the season after they declined to exercise his 5th Year option. He was extended after he played well in the Wild Card Round against Minnesota, the team's first playoff win in 12 years so again, ownership might have had a say in re-signing him which would make it harder to blame Schoen/Daboll for the current season.

 

 

 

Speculation that Jones was extended due to ownership vs. management is based in large part on the bolded IMO. 

 

Another interesting aspect to the Giants drama is Daboll. He came in full of confidence and guns blazing - he publically beratedJones on the sidelines after a bad play a game or two into his first year - and then things got better. But he seems to have lost his swagger. Losing in this market can do it that you, but maybe with Jones he feels it's out of his control. 

 

Bottom line for me me is Jets and Giants are a mess and although the Bills still need to get over the hump living in the Jets/Giants marketplace has been a lot more enjoyable the past few years.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Still can't believe they took a RB instead of Allen in the 2018 draft.  Thanks Gettleman. 

 

 

Yeah, looks even worse now than it did at the time. And I thought it was pretty bad at the time. 

 

If Eli had been young, maybe, but he was ancient and creaky.

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Still can't believe they took a RB instead of Allen in the 2018 draft.  Thanks Gettleman. 

I remind WFAN and ESPN NYC radio everytime I call in, as well as the Jets

 

I actually like the Giants, nothing near the Bills but I do root for them to come out the NFC

Edited November 13 by JerseyBills

[SinceThe70s]

12 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I remind WFAN and ESPN NYC radio everytime I call in, as well as the Jets

 

I actually like the Giants, nothing near the Bills but I do root for them to come out the NFC

 

You call in to NYC radio? Oof. Please don't tell me that you're Jerome.

 

Kidding aside, who do you call into...and should I keep my ear out for JerseyBills from Hopcatong?

 

 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Gregg said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/adam-schefter-believes-daniel-jones-s-career-with-giants-is-over/ar-AA1tXFKh?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9c924dd1f78149598438d0ce9073d0e6&ei=10

 

Similar situation to how Russell Wilson's time ended with the Broncos.

 

$23M injury guarantee.  If they don't want to stay with him next year, it makes sense to sit his butt and play for the top pick.

 

The only question I have is whether Schoen and Daboll stay. 

 will maintain that since the start of 2023, the Giants simply do not look like a well-coached team, and that Daboll allowed winning COTY to go to his head.

 

7 hours ago, Frostbite said:

With the potential of Brady leaving for a HC job, do we bring back Daboll? Probably not as there was a rift between him and McD. He seemed to get the most out of Josh though.

 

I'm not so sure of that, but it's another story.

Edited November 13 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Governor said:

Their one coach had it right and benched Eli and their fans flipped out and demanded he be put back in. 

 

"If you listen to the fans, you'll find yourself sitting with them" - Buddy Nix

[eball]

49 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

"If you listen to the fans, you'll find yourself sitting with them" - Buddy Nix

Sorry Beck, that’s a Marvism…

 

[JerseyBills]

8 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

You call in to NYC radio? Oof. Please don't tell me that you're Jerome.

 

Kidding aside, who do you call into...and should I keep my ear out for JerseyBills from Hopcatong?

 

 

Steve from Clifton,  not a regular or anything,  maybe once a month or twice a month lol..

I only do if it's an interesting topic and not a long wait, when I don't feel like setting up my phone to listen to something and just use radio..

 

Who do you like the most? I have to say Evan Robert's has grown on me the last cpl years, miss Carton though

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, TBBills Fan said:

Fair points.  That would be Mr Mara the owner who decides

 

I agree if it was not a ownership call or a group consensus like let's give him another year then they are probably gone. 

 

I just don't see schoen giving that deal without some type of ownership influence 

 

Owners approve of all such deals. But a smarter HC and GM combo would have told the owner "we can't pay this guy that much money, we can't win with him".  One fluke playoff win doesn't hide how awful he was down the stretch.

[SinceThe70s]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Steve from Clifton,  not a regular or anything,  maybe once a month or twice a month lol..

I only do if it's an interesting topic and not a long wait, when I don't feel like setting up my phone to listen to something and just use radio..

 

Who do you like the most? I have to say Evan Robert's has grown on me the last cpl years, miss Carton though

 

I'm a casual listener, almost exclusively drive time, I go through spurts where I'll either tune in every day or not at all for a while. My guilty pleasure is tuning in for the Jets drama - the day after a bad loss is outstanding.  Evan's passion is great, but I liked Carton more when he was with the buttoned down Boomer. The two that I can't stand are Sal and BT, they're a clown show and I don't think I get any insight from them that I couldn't get from a drunk at the local bar.

 

I'll keep my ears perked for Steve from Clifton!

[Captain Hindsight]

17 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I was dumbfounded by Gettleman's explanation that he passed on a quarterback because he still thought a 37 year old Eli Manning had a few good years left.  His decline was obvious at that point and he was never that great to begin with.

My theory is that was all ownership. They had just benched Eli the year prior and messed up his start streak and were trying to do right by him. Barkley was/is a fantastic player. They didnt miss on the player, but that was horrendous roster building that they are still paying for today 

[BringBackFergy]

[The Jokeman]

12 hours ago, finn said:

If I had known for sure I could draft Allen the next year, I would have passed on Mahomes, too. I wouldn't want to have to support Mahomes. Just don't like the guy. Plus, Allen is better. 

The thing with Mahomes, if we take him at 10 you know there would have been pressure to start him over Tyrod and possibly supplant him and make us miss the playoffs our first season under McDermott. Say what you want but that could have had more implications on future teams than we thought as not sure we had the proper coaching staff to develop Mahomes. Or he'd have the same success early on here. Mahomes fell into a great situation with KC as they had a solid team already built and he just made them that much better than Alex Smith. 

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

$23M injury guarantee.  If they don't want to stay with him next year, it makes sense to sit his butt and play for the top pick.

 

The only question I have is whether Schoen and Daboll stay. 

 will maintain that since the start of 2023, the Giants simply do not look like a well-coached team, and that Daboll allowed winning COTY to go to his head.

 

 

I'm not so sure of that, but it's another story.

Shades of Cardale Jones playing instead of Tyrod. 

Edited November 13 by The Jokeman

[Captain Hindsight]

13 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

It wasn't just the NY Giants with the #2 pick for an RB; the Browns passed on him twice, with QB Baker Mayfield going #1 overall and #4 for a CB. The NY Jets took QB Sam Darnold #3 overall. Next, Denver took a DE, and the Colts took an OG. All QB-needy teams. All scroood the pooch!

The Colts had Luck at the time. Denver always baffled me. They had just signed Case keenum to a 20 million dollar contract and thought "nah we good" instead of taking Allen

 

Back to Jones. I've been higher on him than most people. I've always thought he had one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL (except Barkley) and was routinely getting beat up in NJ. Every once in a while he'd make a big play or do something really impressive. I could see the talent. Then he had a decent year in 2022 and they made the playoffs. But what made no sense to me, was how the FO handled it. They gave Jones a big contract and franchised Barkley. I would have done the opposite. Jones had 15 TDs that year. He was ok, Barkley was the offense and the playmaker.

 

Make Jones prove it again. If he did, its the same commitment. If not, tear it down and start over. It surprising because Buffalo did the same thing in 2017. Overachieved, made the playoffs (nearly won a playoff game too) but the FO recognized that Tyrod had taken the team as far as possible and blew it all up. Why Schoen and Daboll didnt follow that model never made sense to me. My bet, is ownership stepped in and told them to keep Jones 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

"If you listen to the fans, you'll find yourself sitting with them" - Buddy Nix

 

That's Marv Levy.

 

A Buddy Nix quote would be like "he's more nervous than a long tailed cat in a room full of rockin' chairs"

[Don Otreply]

They deserve the hole they have dug for themselves, just another one of the fifteen ish teams that chronically under perform annually in the league, nothing to see here, move along, 😁👍

[Donuts and Doritos]

 

The Giants only plan for Daniel Jones should be:

 

 

 

[TBBills Fan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Owners approve of all such deals. But a smarter HC and GM combo would have told the owner "we can't pay this guy that much money, we can't win with him".  One fluke playoff win doesn't hide how awful he was down the stretch.

 

That's why I wonder if the owner didn't just approve the deal but pushed for it?

 

Giving schoen the benefit of the doubt here. 

 

Because if Schoen went to Mara saying this is the deal, what do you think, he's got to be toast

[GunnerBill]

Just now, TBBills Fan said:

 

That's why I wonder if the owner didn't just approve the deal but pushed for it?

 

That is the word out of the media out there. I mean it is hard to believe but apparently Mara was 100% in the "we must extend Jones" camp. If it is true then that place is more dysfunctional than anyone thought.

 

I think he is going to try really hard to keep Schoen and Daboll and give them a chance to pick their own QB. He was going to keep Joe Judge another year until he talked himself out of a job in that embarrassing presser and I don't rule out Daboll doing that at some point. But I think Mara knows that spinning wheels every 2/3 years is a mistake and it seems like Daboll in particular still has some good will from the fanbase for that first year, Schoen slightly less so. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Doesnt matter what the owner wanted on the Jones deal.

 

The real mistake was Schoen being so bent on building around him this offseason instead of realizing what they actually had and starting to pivot away.

 

They have an out after this season on that contract. Anyone/everyone knew this should be Jones' last year.

 

Should have re-signed Barkley. Should have traded down in this draft and stockpiled picks in 2025 draft. Then, even if you are paying a RB big money, you get a QB on a rookie deal to offset it.

 

The second Schoen said "I'm not paying a QB $45M to hand off to a $13M RB" and meant that to justify why they let Barkley walk, I knew he was toast. They had it opposite.