the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[boco357]

I keep hearing they are safe and Mara wants to give them a chance to pick their own QB.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You are probably just still fooled by the clever things you've seen from Daboll.   The majority of his career as a play caller has been him trying to get by on clever and failing.  Spectacularly at times.   It's my belief that he just doesn't work hard enough at his craft because he doesn't think he has to.  Way too overconfident in his ability.  I think the best coaches are systematic, detail oriented and always trying to gain more knowledge of the league/game.   That's not what I see with him.   

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

I doubt Allen succeeds if he went to the Jets.  It was clear from Allen's rookie season that he was not ready for the NFL.  The Bills nurtured him to what he is today.  The Jets would have thrown him by the wayside.  It is tough to play and survive in that market.  Even a SB Quarterback Kurt Warner was kicked out of that market. 

 

I respect your opinion but I think guys like Allen, mahomes , a Elway or Luck would be great anywhere....

 

A lot of Allen's learning curve was normal for any top QB for time and memorial. 

 

The bills also didn't take any shortcuts in his development by going RPO or spread. Daboll taught Allen how to play QB the right way traditionally in the Earnhardt- Perkins offense ( the same offense Brady ran for 20 years) and it paid big dividends in parts of year two and obviously year 3. 

 

His numbers would have been better if they just ran RPO but they did things the right way for his development 

 

Allen in year two was actually much better than ppl realize considering the advanced offense he was learning. 

 

 

Edited December 1 by Kelly to Allen

[Governor]

12 hours ago, boco357 said:

I keep hearing they are safe and Mara wants to give them a chance to pick their own QB.

Finally it appears we have proof of the meddling.

Edited December 1 by Governor

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

I respect your opinion but I think guys like Allen, mahomes , a Elway or Luck would be great anywhere....

 

A lot of Allen's learning curve was normal for any top QB for time and memorial. 

 

The bills also didn't take any shortcuts in his development by going RPO or spread. Daboll taught Allen how to play QB the right way traditionally in the Earnhardt- Perkins offense ( the same offense Brady ran for 20 years) and it paid big dividends in parts of year two and obviously year 3. 

 

His numbers would have been better if they just ran RPO but they did things the right way for his development 

 

Allen in year two was actually much better than ppl realize considering the advanced offense he was learning. 

 

 

Allen would have succeeded in many places..that was not the point.  He needed a ecosystem to succeed.  The Jets have not been able to give that to any of the QBs in the last decade. 

[Billy Claude]

21 hours ago, boco357 said:

I keep hearing they are safe and Mara wants to give them a chance to pick their own QB.

 

That's what everybody is reporting but I don't see how Mara can keep Daboll given how badly the Giants are playing.  The Giants don't have to win but there will be a huge amount of pressure to fire Daboll if the Giants continue to looks so disorganized and non-competitive.

 

If Mara fires Daboll, it wouldn't make sense to let Schoen pick the next coach given that there is a good chance Schoen will be fired in a year.

 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

I respect your opinion but I think guys like Allen, mahomes , a Elway or Luck would be great anywhere....

 

A lot of Allen's learning curve was normal for any top QB for time and memorial. 

 

The bills also didn't take any shortcuts in his development by going RPO or spread. Daboll taught Allen how to play QB the right way traditionally in the Earnhardt- Perkins offense ( the same offense Brady ran for 20 years) and it paid big dividends in parts of year two and obviously year 3. 

 

His numbers would have been better if they just ran RPO but they did things the right way for his development 

 

Allen in year two was actually much better than ppl realize considering the advanced offense he was learning. 

 

 

 

I think there as a risk of Josh failing and it was that a team either:

 

a) tried to hide his weaknesses in the development phase and didn't expose him to things. As you say the Bills did not do that; or 

 

b) they tired of the mistakes and pulled the plug on the development right before the break out happened.

 

I think a) was the bigger of the two risks and it is why I give Daboll credit. I don't think he is responsible for Josh Allen or anything like that... Josh's talent is responsible... but Daboll developed a guy like Josh absolutely the right way. No stabilisers. There is a world IMO where a team tried the alternative approach of hiding him early, then got frustrated because the ceiling appeared lower and gave up only to see him succeed somewhere else. I think that is sort of what happened with Baker in Cleveland. They installed an offense to try and prop him up rather than truly develop him and as a result they never got the ceiling version of Baker that Tampa are now enjoying. Josh is better and more talented than Baker, no question, but the risk of a similar career arc was there IMO.

53 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

That's what everybody is reporting but I don't see how Mara can keep Daboll given how badly the Giants are playing.  The Giants don't have to win but there will be a huge amount of pressure to fire Daboll if the Giants continue to looks so disorganized and non-competitive.

 

If Mara fires Daboll, it wouldn't make sense to let Schoen pick the next coach given that there is a good chance Schoen will be fired in a year.

 

 

It seems to me that of the two Schoen is the one more likely on the hotseat. They should either keep them both or fire them both though. Mismatching regimes rarely works. 

[SinceThe70s]

Fun fact: the New York Rangers won a game at MetLife more recently than the New York Giants. Ouch.

[Charles Romes]

They are safe. I have not seen a more obvious tanking since the Curtis Painter colts. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 12/1/2024 at 7:05 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I think there as a risk of Josh failing and it was that a team either:

 

a) tried to hide his weaknesses in the development phase and didn't expose him to things. As you say the Bills did not do that; or 

 

b) they tired of the mistakes and pulled the plug on the development right before the break out happened.

 

I think a) was the bigger of the two risks and it is why I give Daboll credit. I don't think he is responsible for Josh Allen or anything like that... Josh's talent is responsible... but Daboll developed a guy like Josh absolutely the right way. No stabilisers. There is a world IMO where a team tried the alternative approach of hiding him early, then got frustrated because the ceiling appeared lower and gave up only to see him succeed somewhere else. I think that is sort of what happened with Baker in Cleveland. They installed an offense to try and prop him up rather than truly develop him and as a result they never got the ceiling version of Baker that Tampa are now enjoying. Josh is better and more talented than Baker, no question, but the risk of a similar career arc was there IMO.

 

It seems to me that of the two Schoen is the one more likely on the hotseat. They should either keep them both or fire them both though. Mismatching regimes rarely works. 

 

 

I agree that putting Josh Allen in the Patriot system really helped evolve his game.  I wanted him to be in more of a traditional under center system with true play action to allow him to stretch the field.   Nowadays, that's a Shanahan tree thing.  I think Allen would have made it in a Shanahan system too but what's been PROVEN is that the EP got him to where he is.  But I don't give Daboll as much credit for that.   That's the system he knows.   I think he's proven at his other OC/HC jobs that he's not all that exceptional at what he does.   McBeane probably deserve more of the credit for putting him in an EP system. 

[frostbitmic]

11 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

They are safe. I have not seen a more obvious tanking since the Curtis Painter colts. 

Sign at Raiders game ...

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, frostbitmic said:

Sign at Raiders game ...

 

I still like the idea of all the underachieving teams being made to enter a playoff structure, to secure draft positions. 😁

[frostbitmic]

1 minute ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I still like the idea of all the underachieving teams being made to enter a playoff structure, to secure draft positions. 😁

They can call it the toilet bowl.

[foreboding]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:42 PM, GerstAusGosheim said:

 

 

Very few HOF coaches didn't have a HOF QB. I'm not surprised Daboll is struggling with Danny Dimes, he's terrible. 

 

Bill Walsh (HOF Coach, inducted in 1993)
Joe Montana (HOF QB, inducted in 2000)
Steve Young (HOF QB, inducted in 2005)
 

Don Shula (HOF Coach, inducted in 1997)
Johnny Unitas (HOF QB, inducted in 1979) – coached him with the Baltimore Colts.
Dan Marino (HOF QB, inducted in 2005) – coached him with the Miami Dolphins.
 

Chuck Noll (HOF Coach, inducted in 1993)
Terry Bradshaw (HOF QB, inducted in 1989)

 

Tom Landry (HOF Coach, inducted in 1990)
Roger Staubach (HOF QB, inducted in 1985)

 

Vince Lombardi (HOF Coach, inducted in 1971)
Bart Starr (HOF QB, inducted in 1977)

 

Marv Levy (HOF Coach, inducted in 2001)
Jim Kelly (HOF QB, inducted in 2002)

 

George Halas (HOF Coach, inducted in 1963)
Sid Luckman (HOF QB, inducted in 1965)

 

Weeb Ewbank (HOF Coach, inducted in 1978)
Johnny Unitas (HOF QB, inducted in 1979) – coached him with the Baltimore Colts.
Joe Namath (HOF QB, inducted in 1985) – coached him with the New York Jets.

 

Hank Stram (HOF Coach, inducted in 2003)
Len Dawson (HOF QB, inducted in 1987)

 

Bill Parcells (HOF Coach, inducted in 2013)
Phil Simms (Not a HOF QB, but a Super Bowl-winning QB for Parcells)

 

*Joe Gibbs (HOF Coach, inducted in 1996)
None of his Super Bowl-winning QBs (Joe Theismann, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien) are in the Hall of Fame, which is noteworthy.

 

Tony Dungy (HOF Coach, inducted in 2016)
Peyton Manning (HOF QB, inducted in 2021)

 

Bill Cowher (HOF Coach, inducted in 2020)
Ben Roethlisberger (Future HOF QB)

 

Mike Holmgren (Potential Future HOF Coach, not yet inducted)
Brett Favre (HOF QB, inducted in 2016)

 

Paul Brown (HOF Coach, inducted in 1967)
Otto Graham (HOF QB, inducted in 1965)

 

Bud Grant (HOF Coach, inducted in 1994)
Fran Tarkenton (HOF QB, inducted in 1986)

 

John Madden (HOF Coach, inducted in 2006)
Ken Stabler (HOF QB, inducted in 2016)

 

George Allen (HOF Coach, inducted in 2002)
Sonny Jurgensen (HOF QB, inducted in 1983)

 

Jimmy Johnson (HOF Coach, inducted in 2020)
Troy Aikman (HOF QB, inducted in 2006)

 

Dick Vermeil (HOF Coach, inducted in 2022)
Kurt Warner (HOF QB, inducted in 2017)

 

Bill Belichick (Future HOF Coach)
Tom Brady (Future HOF QB)

Good work right here!