the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

The amount of GMs that could potentially be good at their jobs but get fired before ever finding out due to inability to procure a quality quarterback is crazy.

Makes you wonder where Brandon Beane would be if the Bills had missed out on Allen and had to settle for, say, Josh Rosen or Mason Rudolph.

Getting the QB is really THE thing for a GM. If he hits on a QB, especially a REALLY good one, he's got job security for quite a while. If he doesn't? Back to the unemployment line.

Crazy thing with Schoen and Daboll is it seems they may not even get the chance to pick a guy. I mean...they re-signed Daniel Jones to a big contract, so I guess that counts, but...sheesh.

Yeah and I have no idea what that was about, it's like they didn't even really try and rebuild just try and patch up an already sinking ship. Like were their hands tied, it's hard to understand how two people you'd generally think were probably smart would decide to keep rolling with something that had been clearly shown to not work.

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah and I have no idea what that was about, it's like they didn't even really try and rebuild just try and patch up an already sinking ship. Like were their hands tied, it's hard to understand how two people you'd generally think were probably smart would decide to keep rolling with something that had been clearly shown to not work.

Watching on Hard Knocks as they tried really hard to move up this year for Drake Maye but were unable to do so was painful. Then when Schoen announces to Daboll that they couldn't get a deal done and will be sticking with Daniel Jones, you can just tell that Dabes sees the writing on the wall. Hard to watch. Still surprised the Giants agreed to it, and I doubt any NFL team will agree to an offseason Hard Knocks ever again.

Edited November 26 by Logic

[uninja]

1 hour ago, bills6969 said:

Don’t know, but Brady’s name is on all the short lists for top HC candidates.  Teams love the young, offensive minded coaches for HC

I’m sure they do, but Brady saw what happened in Carolina with Rhule and what happens when you rush into a bad situation. 
 

Just cuz you’re an offensive whizkid doesn’t mean you have the temperament and emotional intelligence to rebuild a locker room and turn around the culture. 
 

I think Brady has a good thing going and he’s got enough scars that I think he’ll think long and hard before making the jump. 

Edited November 26 by uninja

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, Logic said:

Crazy thing with Schoen and Daboll is it seems they may not even get the chance to pick a guy. I mean...they re-signed Daniel Jones to a big contract, so I guess that counts, but...sheesh.

 

That was their chance… They made their choice.

 

And watching Hard Knocks, it’s pretty clear to see that Giants ownership lets Schoen and Daboll the ship. He was not in favor of letting Barkley go but Schoen did anyway.

[L Ron Burgundy]

Schoen hasn't improved the talent.  They suck pretty much everywhere.   

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

It isn't exactly fair to beat him to death with this, if they'd kept Barkley would their offense be better sure, would they be a good football team, no.

 

Barkley is having such a massive year because yes he's a great player, but also because he's now on a team that has other pieces around him that also work. It's weird how now on an offense with an average to decent QB with some weapons to throw to he's even more effective. Even better for him on the Eagles is he's still clearly the best offensive player.

 

If he'd stayed with the Giants it'd be the same old story they'd have run him into the ground again and teams would focus on him.

 

Almost none of the criticism most GMs take is fair since most of them are making the best decision for the team at the time with what they have to work with, and then the universe works out differently.

 

That said, in this case, the criticism is for believing way too much in Daniel Jones when I think they all knew in the back of their minds that he wasnt the guy. Heck, Hard Knocks showed Schoen trying to move up to grab Daniels this year.

 

He shouldve made the tougher decision that we were all thinking at the time: You pay Barkley that money because in a year you're going to be paying a rookie to hand off to him.

 

In the end, I'll welcome Schoen back as an assistant in the Bills' FO next year.

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah and I have no idea what that was about, it's like they didn't even really try and rebuild just try and patch up an already sinking ship. Like were their hands tied, it's hard to understand how two people you'd generally think were probably smart would decide to keep rolling with something that had been clearly shown to not work.

 

I was shocked they didnt at least try to trade down in this draft and stockpile picks in 2025 so they could maneuver to get a guy. But probably too little too late.

[stuvian]

if Daboll is the great QB whisperer he was touted to be, he should have gotten more out of Jones. The Maras made a decision to forego drafting a QB. The clock is ticking

[RichStadiumGuy]

3 hours ago, bills6969 said:

Don’t know, but Brady’s name is on all the short lists for top HC candidates.  Teams love the young, offensive minded coaches for HC

I keep hearing this "short list" mentioned frequently in here. Where is this thing so I can see the other names on it... and who wrote it?

[amprov56]

7 minutes ago, RichStadiumGuy said:

I keep hearing this "short list" mentioned frequently in here. Where is this thing so I can see the other names on it... and who wrote it?

Right next to the list of mythical offensive genius who they want to replace McDermott with.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah and I have no idea what that was about, it's like they didn't even really try and rebuild just try and patch up an already sinking ship. Like were their hands tied, it's hard to understand how two people you'd generally think were probably smart would decide to keep rolling with something that had been clearly shown to not work.

 

No tied necessarily but definitely influenced by the owner.

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

That was their chance… They made their choice.

 

And watching Hard Knocks, it’s pretty clear to see that Giants ownership lets Schoen and Daboll the ship. He was not in favor of letting Barkley go but Schoen did anyway.

 

The story on Jones is Mara was VERY committted to him. And even this week Jones went straight to ownership for his release. Father - Son relationship is how I've seen it described.

 

Schoen and Daboll should have been stronger though. There is no question on that. 

[Einstein]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No tied necessarily but definitely influenced by the owner.

 

The story on Jones is Mara was VERY committted to him. And even this week Jones went straight to ownership for his release. Father - Son relationship is how I've seen it described.

 

Schoen and Daboll should have been stronger though. There is no question on that. 

 

If that’s true, then i’m not sure how Mara can scapegoat Schoen. If he is an honest man.

[Mikie2times]

In would argue the most detrimental thing that can happen to a franchise is having a QB that seems just good enough to keep 

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Almost none of the criticism most GMs take is fair since most of them are making the best decision for the team at the time with what they have to work with, and then the universe works out differently.

 

This is what I think makes Beane a good GM. He doesn't let the mistakes box him in and keeps as much flexibility as he can.

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

In would argue the most detrimental thing that can happen to a franchise is having a QB that seems just good enough to keep 

Bill Walsh's famous quote about Steve DeBerg: He's just good enough to get you fired.

Edited November 26 by dave mcbride

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Bill Walsh's famous quote about Steve DeBerg: He's just good enough to get you fired.

He would certainly be on that list 

[Mat68]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Almost none of the criticism most GMs take is fair since most of them are making the best decision for the team at the time with what they have to work with, and then the universe works out differently.

 

That said, in this case, the criticism is for believing way too much in Daniel Jones when I think they all knew in the back of their minds that he wasnt the guy. Heck, Hard Knocks showed Schoen trying to move up to grab Daniels this year.

 

He shouldve made the tougher decision that we were all thinking at the time: You pay Barkley that money because in a year you're going to be paying a rookie to hand off to him.

 

In the end, I'll welcome Schoen back as an assistant in the Bills' FO next year.

 

I was shocked they didnt at least try to trade down in this draft and stockpile picks in 2025 so they could maneuver to get a guy. But probably too little too late.

Should have moved Jones after 22.  Sign Barkley a year early. They have less good players than when they took over. 

[Kelly to Allen]

39 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

In would argue the most detrimental thing that can happen to a franchise is having a QB that seems just good enough to keep 

Tua....

[Einstein's Dog]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Should have moved Jones after 22.  Sign Barkley a year early. They have less good players than when they took over. 

No, IMO, they should have stayed strong and implemented the Bills blueprint right from the start. 

 

That plan involves taking a shot at a franchise QB.  Much like Tyrod got the Bills a fluke playoff game, D Jones got the Giants a fluke. 

 

Also they should have moved Barkley via trade.   DaBoll/Shoen came from a no-pay RB philosophy.  Franchising Barkley was another mistake, and not from the Bills handbook.

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

If that’s true, then i’m not sure how Mara can scapegoat Schoen. If he is an honest man.

 

From the New York media reports Mara wants to give at least Scheon and maybe both another chance indicating that Mara strongly influence the Jones decision.  However, I don't think he will be able to keep them if the team is uncompetitive as they were last Sunday.

 

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Tua....

Why I liked the signing, for us