the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[TBBills Fan]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

who is going to give Daboll and Schoen that chance?  Who are they going to develop?  They are not good at that---they figured they were set with Jones and backed up a truck for this absolute bum.

Fair points.  That would be Mr Mara the owner who decides

 

I agree if it was not a ownership call or a group consensus like let's give him another year then they are probably gone. 

 

I just don't see schoen giving that deal without some type of ownership influence 

[SinceThe70s]

13 minutes ago, Utah John said:

In some quarters, two Lombardis equals automatic HOF induction.  I don't buy it.  He was usually just an average player.

 

Reminds me of Jim Plunkett. Both came in to the league with high expectations and both won two Super Bowls. 

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I would take the $120m or so you fleeced the Giants for and find beach front property to enjoy the rest of my days.

So back up Mahomes then ?

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Still can't believe they took a RB instead of Allen in the 2018 draft.  Thanks Gettleman. 

It wasn't just the NY Giants with the #2 pick for an RB; the Browns passed on him twice, with QB Baker Mayfield going #1 overall and #4 for a CB. The NY Jets took QB Sam Darnold #3 overall. Next, Denver took a DE, and the Colts took an OG. All QB-needy teams. All scroood the pooch!

[Chicken Boo]

Signing Jones to that contract extension and letting Barkley walk was stupid.

 

Barkley would have at least won you games.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

lol… as opposed to the other backups they have had here

I took note of the humor Joe. 

And nucci's point is still valid

[Dablitzkrieg]

I also speculate that

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, technobot said:

 

Seriously. When Josh is done and we put him up on the Wall of Fame, we should also do the same for Gettleman for gifting us our franchise QB (when the Giants also needed one).

 

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good and after the drought, the Bills were due. It really came up aces the whole way that draft went down (Giants taking a RB, Broncos passing on Allen when they were also looking for their next QB, etc...) 

 

Passing on Mahomes the year before was yikes (with hindsight) but we still ended up with Allen... 

Don't forget the Browns and Jets.  

3 hours ago, zow2 said:

I was surprised they didn't take JJ McCarthy.  I thought he was a lock for the Giants.

Me too

28 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Yeah, well.  Josh became Josh for a lot of reasons, chief among them really hard work and determination to improve on Josh's part.  He spend offseasons with Jordan Palmer working on fundamentals, learning how to pass properly and how to think like a QB.  That was 70% of the reasons for the improvement.  Daboll gets most of the rest of the credit for understanding what Josh was good at and developing an offense tailored to those aspects.  

 

Jones has never had the raw talent that Josh has, never.  He was on track to do the equivalent of sleeping yourself to the middle, in corporate speak.  Whatever hard work he put in was never going to make him even above average.  Watching him now is painful.  He's really bad.  

You forgot Diggs. Despite what is said here, he helped too.

[Albany,n.y.]

12 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

It wasn't just the NY Giants with the #2 pick for an RB; the Browns passed on him twice, with QB Baker Mayfield going #1 overall and #4 for a CB. The NY Jets took QB Sam Darnold #3 overall. Next, Denver took a DE, and the Colts took an OG. All QB-needy teams. All scroood the pooch!

Nobody should be thanking Gettleman as some have done earlier in the thread.  Chances are if he hadn't taken Barkley at 2 and picked a QB instead, he would have most likely selected Sam Darnold, who the Jets picked with the next pick, & then the Jets would still have probably taken Rosen before Allen since they're the Jets. 

 

The worst thing the Giants did was re-sign Jones to ridiculous money.  My 1st reaction was these were the same guys who were in Buffalo when the Bills decided Tyrod Taylor wasn't good enough & they learned nothing from that experience.  However, in their defense, the year they re-signed Jones the QB draft was really bad with only CJ Stroud at 2 being worth drafting (plus Young & Richardson were gone long before the Giants could even consider trading up after making the playoffs).  The best thing they could have done was not re-signing Jones & going with a veteran free agent (possibly Tyrod, who was on the roster last year) and then doing everything possible to move up in the 2024 draft-or sat back & taken Penix, McCarthy, or Nix instead of only wanting one of the top 3 QBs taken (as shown on Hard Knocks).  

[SoTier]

32 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

There have been under currents in the local media suggesting that's what happened. 

 

IIRC the Giants picking Jones caused a lot of questions at the time he was drafted.   I think he had some connection to Eli and possibly to the Mara family, and some analysts believed that connection resulted in his selection.

[Doc Brown]

41 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

It wasn't just the NY Giants with the #2 pick for an RB; the Browns passed on him twice, with QB Baker Mayfield going #1 overall and #4 for a CB. The NY Jets took QB Sam Darnold #3 overall. Next, Denver took a DE, and the Colts took an OG. All QB-needy teams. All scroood the pooch!

Colts had Luck.  At least Browns and Jets went with the right position.  Elway admitted he screwed up at least.  At least he took a premium position but a RB Gettleman?  Come on.

[Sierra Foothills]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Stats and trophies won't back me up, but I've seen Archie, Payton, and Eli all play and thought Eli was the worst of the three.  Yet others seemed to believe Eli would still play at HOF level into his 40s.  

 

The Eli era was a difficult one to manage. Coughlin found this out as did Ben McAdoo. Eli was revered by ownership and that had an effect on personnel decisions revolving around the QB position. Eli was given special consideration.

 

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

His pal Darnold hasn't been doing so well with the Vikings recently. That is someone I could see Josh wanting the Bills to bring in as the backup.

 

Talk about special consideration, Darnold coming to Buffalo as a backup would be a big helping of humble pie for him. He would have to signal via his agent that he would be good with it as opposed to going someplace he might be able to compete for a starting job. I don't think Darnold is a starter in the NFL but it doesn't matter what I think. I feel like it could be awkward for him backing up a QB that he was drafted 4 spots ahead of.

 

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

But Daboll is the reason Josh became Josh and he can do the exact same thing with Jones. I don't get this

 

39 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Yeah, well.  Josh became Josh for a lot of reasons, chief among them really hard work and determination to improve on Josh's part.  He spend offseasons with Jordan Palmer working on fundamentals, learning how to pass properly and how to think like a QB.  That was 70% of the reasons for the improvement.  Daboll gets most of the rest of the credit for understanding what Josh was good at and developing an offense tailored to those aspects.  

 

Jones has never had the raw talent that Josh has, never.  He was on track to do the equivalent of sleeping yourself to the middle, in corporate speak.  Whatever hard work he put in was never going to make him even above average.  Watching him now is painful.  He's really bad.  

 

There's a lot of reasons why Josh became Josh, mostly to do with Josh. That being said, McBeane have to be given high grades for not ruining him, as many teams have done to many QBs. Individual talent and hard work only go so far in the NFL.

 

42 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

There have been under currents in the local media suggesting that's what happened. 

 

It's hard to say how much ownership has influenced the Giants' decisions however it seems like they didn't want to move on from Saquon. The organization used to have a reputation for being patient but lately they've cycled through lots of head coaches (McAdoo, Spagnuolo, Shurmur, and Judge in a 5 year period).

 

Gettleman and Shurmur drafted DJ but he was extended by Schoen and Daboll, the season after they declined to exercise his 5th Year option. He was extended after he played well in the Wild Card Round against Minnesota, the team's first playoff win in 12 years so again, ownership might have had a say in re-signing him which would make it harder to blame Schoen/Daboll for the current season.

 

 

[buffblue]

I guess this is why Schefter gets paid the big bucks. Would've never figured Daniel Jones might be let go by the Giants after sucking balls for 6 years

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

Daniel Jones is so bad

[The Jokeman]

4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I can see Daniel Jones taking over from Mitch Trubisky as the backup QB here in 2026…. He seems to have the attributes they value in a backup looking at the previous guys that have filled the role 

I bet Jones signs with Carolina on a one year deal to compete with Bryce Young in 2025. Both play horribly and Carolina ends up with the top pick. Arch plays the Eli card and says he won't play for Carolina which forces them to trade his rights to the Rams and Carolina ends up with Nico Iamaleava. The Giants end up with Cam Ward in the 2025 draft because Deion won't let Shedeur play in cold New Jersey (with the Giants or Jets) and he ends up in Las Vegas. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:12 AM by The Jokeman

[Sojourner]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I bet Jones signs with Carolina on a one year deal to compete with Bryce Young in 2025. Both play horribly and Carolina ends up with the top pick. Arch plays the Eli card and says he won't play for Carolina which forces them to trade his rights to the Rams and Carolina ends up with Nico Iamaleava. The Giants end up with Cam Ward in the 2025 draft because Deion won't let Shedeur play in cold New Jersey (with the Giants or Jets) and he ends up in Las Vegas. 

Very specific. Nice train of thought. 

[Aussie Joe]

22 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I bet Jones signs with Carolina on a one year deal to compete with Bryce Young in 2025. Both play horribly and Carolina ends up with the top pick. Arch plays the Eli card and says he won't play for Carolina which forces them to trade his rights to the Rams and Carolina ends up with Nico Iamaleava. The Giants end up with Cam Ward in the 2025 draft because Deion won't let Shedeur play in cold New Jersey (with the Giants or Jets) and he ends up in Las Vegas. 

Not sure if it’s Carolina, but my prediction is that  Jones will be a bridge QB for some team nursing a rookie QB in 2025 …likely to underperform in that role and be demoted to backup level at a different team for 2026 …

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:33 AM by Aussie Joe

[finn]

5 hours ago, technobot said:

Passing on Mahomes the year before was yikes (with hindsight) but we still ended up with Allen... 

If I had known for sure I could draft Allen the next year, I would have passed on Mahomes, too. I wouldn't want to have to support Mahomes. Just don't like the guy. Plus, Allen is better. 

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

IIRC the Giants picking Jones caused a lot of questions at the time he was drafted.   I think he had some connection to Eli and possibly to the Mara family, and some analysts believed that connection resulted in his selection.

 

I'm not aware of any connection between Eli and Jones, but would be interested to hear. If there was a Mara/Jones connections the local media would be all over that so I'm skeptical.  The local speculation I had heard was wrt Jets owner and a connection to Zach Wilson. As I recall it was a tenuous connection.

[Sierra Foothills]

17 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

I'm not aware of any connection between Eli and Jones, but would be interested to hear. If there was a Mara/Jones connections the local media would be all over that so I'm skeptical.  The local speculation I had heard was wrt Jets owner and a connection to Zach Wilson. As I recall it was a tenuous connection.

 

I feel like it has to do with the Manning Passing Academy, Duke University, David Cutcliffe... this whole QB industry.