the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Serious question:  precisely what roster-building philosophy that has been proven to be outdated is Beane still pushing?

 

Overinvest in d linemen and running backs at the expense of speed and skill at the island positions.

[Governor]

I just always assumed the owner, along with the Mannings in his ear, insisted on paying Jones.

 

How do we know that was Schoen’s decision? If it was he should be fired but if not, he should at least pick a QB.

 

I guess we’ll find out. If Schoen stays then we know Jones was forced on him.

Edited October 21 by Governor

[dave mcbride]

46 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Overinvest in d linemen and running backs at the expense of speed and skill at the island positions.

D-line is kinda never a bad investment, IMHO. Obviously, the players have to be good for it to work.

[Savage]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

People are focusing on Barkley carving the Giants up yesterday, but my god is their offense terrible. I know they lost their starting LT (Thomas), but 119 yards vs the Eagles D is just unacceptable. Before the season I thought that their d-line would make them a playoff contender (Thibadoux, Lawrence, Burns), and while the d-line has played well (and the defense overall has been pretty good), they look like a 4-13 team. I now think both Daboll and Schoen will be gone at the end of the season. I've long defended Daboll, who I think is a creative play caller (at least with the Bills), and I've excused his poor offenses because the QBs he has rolled out there before Josh Allen were all really bad. But while Daniel Jones isn't good, he's hardly Brady Quinn level. I see him as slightly to moderately below league average, but the team is now 30th in points, 27th in yards, and 29th in passing ypa. And they have a stud in Nabers, who is frankly more valuable already than Barkley would have been.

 

I have to hand it to @BADOLBILZ for his resolute contempt for Daboll. Aside from his years with Allen and one OK season in 2022 with the Giants (and even in that season the passing offense was bad - 26th in yards, 24th in TDs, and 27th in ypa), the offenses he's overseen have been depressingly unproductive (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm). I still give him leeway given the terrible QBs he's had to field, but again, I really don't think Jones is that bad and the results aren't getting any better. And he and Schoen chose to pay Jones, which says something too. This will certainly be Jones's last season starting for NY, but I can see him having a decent career as a backup. Reminds me a little bit Trubisky in terms of total productivity and career trajectory.

   

Daniel Jones is a solid QB.

 

tough SOB too.

 

 

[Nihilarian]

My take is that Schoen bought into Daboll being a QB whisperer with Josh Allen, whom he supposedly coached up into a superstar QB. Daboll rode Josh Allen's arm to be a HC when he isn't even that good an OC. 

 

The NY Giants need a better than 28th or so offensive line to help develop a young QB along with building a decent run game. Here you have a GM listening to a not so good HC on what the team needs. 

 

Daboll is toast, Schoen might get another chance IMO.

[Bills_inthe6]

Both were doomed once they left the Bills....

 

Edited October 22 by Bills_inthe6

[ghostwriter]

I would love him back as a QB coach or some kind of assistant/offensive quality control coach.

[wppete]

Bring them both back to Buffalo. 

[Billznut]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

My take is that Schoen bought into Daboll being a QB whisperer with Josh Allen, whom he supposedly coached up into a superstar QB. Daboll rode Josh Allen's arm to be a HC when he isn't even that good an OC. 

 

The NY Giants need a better than 28th or so offensive line to help develop a young QB along with building a decent run game. Here you have a GM listening to a not so good HC on what the team needs. 

 

Daboll is toast, Schoen might get another chance IMO.

I can see Mara letting both of them go and be persuaded to turn over the keys of Giants kingdom to Belichick. I think that’s one of the few franchises BB would have high interest in going to next year. 

[TBBills Fan]

3 hours ago, Governor said:

I just always assumed the owner, along with the Mannings in his ear, insisted on paying Jones.

 

How do we know that was Schoen’s decision? If it was he should be fired but if not, he should at least pick a QB.

 

I guess we’ll find out. If Schoen stays then we know Jones was forced on him.

Good we point. We don't know

[ghostwriter]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Bring them both back to Buffalo. 

Some folks are against this but the way I see it both Daboll and Schoen would bring a ton of experience to our coaching staff and front office.
 

And in the event that Brady does get a HC gig we have a quality OC waiting in the wings that will likely get passed over for any HC jobs in the future.

 

[hondo in seattle]

Interesting that our #2 coach and #2 GM got a chance to work together with another team - and failed.

 

Maybe McD and Brandon Beane were the real brains of the operation all along?  

[folz]

Come on home to Buffalo Joe.

 

(not a good idea to bring Daboll back, imo.)

 

[Nitro]

The ownership screwed them by forcing the Jones as starting QB.  

[cage]

Shows how crucial that QB decision is and with most regimes you only have one shot at it.  Jones playing over his head and Giants making the playoffs that first year really hurt them.  It pushed a resigning of Jones for big $ without being able to see if he could sustain his level of play.  

 

Is it all that dissimilar to McD's first year when Tyrod played very well and broke the playoff drought, plus nearly won a wild-card game?  The Bills had draft picks and if they had decided to try to build around Tyrod, McBeane might be in the same boat.  Instead they traded the playoff-winning starting QB and made the move for Allen changing the direction of the team.

[BuffaloRebound]

Completely different expectations within the 2 organizations. Most Bills fans content with winning the division and making the playoffs every year given our history.  Giants fans expect Super Bowls.  They expected the team would keep ascending after year 1 when in reality they completely over-achieved.  

[The Jokeman]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

I know some contemplate Dabol returning to Buffalo.  This seems unlikely given that He and McDermott are supposedly out of sorts.  Schoen, on the other hand, might be back. I’ve heard nothing negative about him from Bean.  

I'd welcome Schoen back. 

[GunnerBill]

I think Schoen is more to blame for the mess but I always suspected Daboll didn't suit the Head Coach job even though I was (and still am) higher on him than others as an OC. 

 

The personnel decisions since Schoen got there have been horrid. 

Just now, The Jokeman said:

I'd welcome Schoen back. 

 

Yea he will be back. He and Beane are like brothers. I heard it from someone who was in that personnel setup for a while that Brandon Beane trusts Joe Schoen as an evaluator more than he trusts himself (might be slightly worrying given the Giants experience). And when you watch the draft room videos now compared to when Schoen was here you get much more of a sense that Beane is kind of isolated as the sole decision maker. Gray and Gaine are no doubt valued execs, but he doesn't have that same implicit trust he had with Joe. 

[MRW]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Completely different expectations within the 2 organizations. Most Bills fans content with winning the division and making the playoffs every year given our history.  Giants fans expect Super Bowls.  They expected the team would keep ascending after year 1 when in reality they completely over-achieved.  

 

But (outside of that first year) the Giants aren't making the playoffs! Daboll and Schoen aren't on the hot seat because they're failing in the divisional round every year.

[DCofNC]

15 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

It was really strange because Schoen just saw McDermott coming in and making the playoffs in his 1st year with Tyrod at QB.. then drafting the QB. Paying Jones made no sense.. it wasn't even needed to get that deal done. One of the most illogical decisions I've ever seen.

I’ll never understand that contract, it’s like they were bidding against someone for him, which was obviously not the case.  They could have signed him to something more like half of that with an easier out and it would have made some sense.  Who was going to pay more for what amounted to one season with good backup numbers?  Nobody.  I get the idea of keeping him to see if he could be the guy, but that was just dumb.