the Daboll/Schoen regime - on the brink, it seems

[dave mcbride]

People are focusing on Barkley carving the Giants up yesterday, but my god is their offense terrible. I know they lost their starting LT (Thomas), but 119 yards vs the Eagles D is just unacceptable. Before the season I thought that their d-line would make them a playoff contender (Thibadoux, Lawrence, Burns), and while the d-line has played well (and the defense overall has been pretty good), they look like a 4-13 team. I now think both Daboll and Schoen will be gone at the end of the season. I've long defended Daboll, who I think is a creative play caller (at least with the Bills), and I've excused his poor offenses because the QBs he has rolled out there before Josh Allen were all really bad. But while Daniel Jones isn't good, he's hardly Brady Quinn level. I see him as slightly to moderately below league average, but the team is now 30th in points, 27th in yards, and 29th in passing ypa. And they have a stud in Nabers, who is frankly more valuable already than Barkley would have been.

 

I have to hand it to @BADOLBILZ for his resolute contempt for Daboll. Aside from his years with Allen and one OK season in 2022 with the Giants (and even in that season the passing offense was bad - 26th in yards, 24th in TDs, and 27th in ypa), the offenses he's overseen have been depressingly unproductive (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm). I still give him leeway given the terrible QBs he's had to field, but again, I really don't think Jones is that bad and the results aren't getting any better. And he and Schoen chose to pay Jones, which says something too. This will certainly be Jones's last season starting for NY, but I can see him having a decent career as a backup. Reminds me a little bit Trubisky in terms of total productivity and career trajectory.

   

[notpolian]

Paying Jones.

The video with Schoen talking the owner Mara about letting Barkley walk.

 

I have a soft spot for Daboll and Schoen since they came from our org.  But they are toast.

[RunTheBall]

I thought Schoen would be a lot better. Daboll is who I thought he was - not much without Josh. 

[Dillenger4]

Yes, it is an ugly situation in NYG land. Nabors has been hurt too don't forget. Their OL is in shambles (injuries, bad play etc). They need a QB bad!

I would love the rumours about Dexter being "available" at the deadline to become Billsy true!

[BuffaloBill]

I know some contemplate Dabol returning to Buffalo.  This seems unlikely given that He and McDermott are supposedly out of sorts.  Schoen, on the other hand, might be back. I’ve heard nothing negative about him from Bean.  

[Coach Tuesday]

Are you apologizing to Badol?

[stuvian]

when they decided to both trade Barkley and forego drafting a QB, they essentially mailed it in on 2024. Too bad for Daboll and Schoen. 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Are you apologizing to Badol?

No, just giving credit where credit is due. He's been wrong about his fair share of things. 

2 minutes ago, stuvian said:

when they decided to both trade Barkley and forego drafting a QB, they essentially mailed it in on 2024. Too bad for Daboll and Schoen. 

Taking Barkley over Allen, Lamar, and Darnold (who I believe would have been fine in a non-dysfunctional organization, which is what the Jets were and are) was one of the worst draft decisions in recent times.  I realize that predated Daboll/Schoen by a long ways.

8 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Yes, it is an ugly situation in NYG land. Nabors has been hurt too don't forget. Their OL is in shambles (injuries, bad play etc). They need a QB bad!

I would love the rumours about Dexter being "available" at the deadline to become Billsy true!

Lawrence is fantastic. But why would the Giants trade an elite cornerstone player at an important position who has three years left on his contract?

Edited October 21 by dave mcbride

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, notpolian said:

Paying Jones.

The video with Schoen talking the owner Mara about letting Barkley walk.

 

I have a soft spot for Daboll and Schoen since they came from our org.  But they are toast.

Daboll’s first season in NYG was a lot like McDermott’s in BUF.   The difference is that McDermott/Beane managed expectations in 2018 knowing it would be a “reset year.”

 

Daboll and Schoen re-signed the team’s “franchise QB” so they didn’t have that luxury.  
 

When you watch the Hard Knocks draft episode, Daboll is very stoic about the Nabers selection and it almost looks like Schoen is acting excited rather than being genuine.  Nabers is a great player but they knew they were screwed without drafting a WB.    
 

I think they really were hoping for a way to trade up for Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye.  I don’t think it ends well for them - but maybe Mara gives them one more season?

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Daboll’s first season in NYG was a lot like McDermott’s in BUF.   The difference is that McDermott/Beane managed expectations in 2018 knowing it would be a “reset year.”

 

Daboll and Schoen re-signed the team’s “franchise QB” so they didn’t have that luxury.  
 

When you watch the Hard Knocks draft episode, Daboll is very stoic about the Nabers selection and it almost looks like Schoen is acting excited rather than being genuine.  Nabers is a great player but they knew they were screwed without drafting a WB.    
 

I think they really were hoping for a way to trade up for Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye.  I don’t think it ends well for them - but maybe Mara gives them one more season?

My understanding is that they tried very hard to trade up. 

[TFBillsfan]

The reality is both are dead men walking including Daniel Jones for the Giants. They are a distant 4th place team in a weaker NFCE likely drafting in the top five again this year. 
 

Do they trust Schoen and Daboll to pick and coach a rookie QB? 

[DapperCam]

I feel like Daniel Jones is a QB that a great OC could make serviceable. Daboll has failed to do that for the most part. He's cooked.

[Alphadawg7]

Daboll drove me nuts here, I couldn't wait for him to leave.  He was allergic to running the football, would call plays like he was more interested in being seen as some sort of guru or genius rather than making good football decisions, and was incredibly stubborn in sticking to what he wanted.  

 

Last year he is on the road back in Buffalo for the first time, on the goalline with the best RB in football and the only talented player on their entire offense.  He has literally time for one play to win the game needing the TD.  His starting QB is out.  Tyrod, who isn't known for seeing the field and passing, is his backup QB.  What does he do...drops Tyrod back taking away his legs (TT best asset) and throwing over the trenches instead of just hading the ball off to their best player to get one yard against a team notorious for not being good at stopping the run.  That is Daboll in a nut shell...like throwing a 30 yard wheel route on 4th and short to a FB who barely plays when your QB is Josh Allen.  Just stupid stuff all the time.  

 

So, its not a surprise to me to see this failing in NY personally.  I think the bigger surprise for me is how bad Schoen has been.  I really thought he would have taken more away from learning under Beane, but the moment he decided to pay Daniel Jones they put the death nail in their tenure there.  It cost them Barkley, but more importantly, it cost them a chance to rebuild and buy themselves some time during the rebuild where they didn't need to win right away.  Instead, they go and give all this money to a weak QB who not only isn't very good but may be more fragile than Tua and then spend big on Burns?  Like GM 101...you got a clean slate, clean house and rebuild...tweaking and failing will get you fired fast.  Rebuilding gets you time and a better shot a sustained success.  

[L Ron Burgundy]

28 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I thought Schoen would be a lot better. Daboll is who I thought he was - not much without Josh. 

 

Agree on Shoen but I don't think the Daboll criticism is completely fair.  That team is devoid of talent on offense.  I'm not saying Daboll doesn't share blame but I think the GM fielding a steaming pile of crap offensively is the biggest culprit for them sucking so bad.  They need some high-end talent.  They have none aside from Nabers.  They barely have anyone good imo, just about a full team of jags.

[US Egg]

Daboll is quite the coaching vagabond with most being brief stays. Some very brief.

 

Kudos to him for climbing to the top of coaching mountain. It was a brief stay, again.

Edited October 21 by US Egg

[Simon]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He's been wrong about his fair share of things. 

 

Oh shlt, now you've done it.......

[Charles Romes]

Daboll really coached well his first year - so well it hurt him.  But he had no plan beyond year 1.  

[appoo]

39 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

People are focusing on Barkley carving the Giants up yesterday, but my god is their offense terrible. I know they lost their starting LT (Thomas), but 119 yards vs the Eagles D is just unacceptable. Before the season I thought that their d-line would make them a playoff contender (Thibadoux, Lawrence, Burns), and while the d-line has played well (and the defense overall has been pretty good), they look like a 4-13 team. I now think both Daboll and Schoen will be gone at the end of the season. I've long defended Daboll, who I think is a creative play caller (at least with the Bills), and I've excused his poor offenses because the QBs he has rolled out there before Josh Allen were all really bad. But while Daniel Jones isn't good, he's hardly Brady Quinn level. I see him as slightly to moderately below league average, but the team is now 30th in points, 27th in yards, and 29th in passing ypa. And they have a stud in Nabers, who is frankly more valuable already than Barkley would have been.

 

I have to hand it to @BADOLBILZ for his resolute contempt for Daboll. Aside from his years with Allen and one OK season in 2022 with the Giants (and even in that season the passing offense was bad - 26th in yards, 24th in TDs, and 27th in ypa), the offenses he's overseen have been depressingly unproductive (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/DaboBr0.htm). I still give him leeway given the terrible QBs he's had to field, but again, I really don't think Jones is that bad and the results aren't getting any better. And he and Schoen chose to pay Jones, which says something too. This will certainly be Jones's last season starting for NY, but I can see him having a decent career as a backup. Reminds me a little bit Trubisky in terms of total productivity and career trajectory.

   

The offseason Hardknocks did them no favors. They came off looking…well not smart

[MJS]

If that happens, Schoen has a job here with Beane, I'm sure. We can welcome him back.

[RoyBatty is alive]

11 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I feel like Daniel Jones is a QB that a great OC could make serviceable. Daboll has failed to do that for the most part. He's cooked.

So many QBs are put in the wrong situation and then flourish once they leave, plenty of recent evidence of that. Baker, Fields, Darnold , Geno Smith.