We need to be a lot better on special teams

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Martin is mediocre. He can't boom the ball and only has modest hang time. All the punt issues are on him. No punts have actually been blocked. I'm not going to complain about near blocks. That happens every game for every team. Martin needs to still deliver a good punt even when there is pressure.

 

The FG blocks are on Bass. His scatter shot kicks are sometimes barely over the line and easily tipped by just reaching your hand up.

 

Coddington makes good decisions and is dynamic with the ball in his hand. He is great, not just decent.

His leg seemed to be dying last year bit he kicked it into gear to close the season and save his ass.

[TheBrownBear]

Martin is fine.  He had a rough day yesterday statistically which is bringing his season numbers down quite a bit.  Looking at his gamelog, he's been an average punter until yesterday.  And his coverage team didn't do him much of a favor when he hit that nice one inside the five and they were completely fooled by the fake fair catch.  Also, for those at the game, was he punting into the wind a bunch yesterday?  Just wondering.

 

He came through with a big punt from his endzone at the end of the Texans game.  Unfortunately, we still managed to blow that one.

[MJS]

9 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Martin is fine.  He had a rough day yesterday statistically which is bringing his season numbers down quite a bit.  Looking at his gamelog, he's been an average punter until yesterday.  And his coverage team didn't do him much of a favor when he hit that nice one inside the five and they were completely fooled by the fake fair catch.  Also, for those at the game, was he punting into the wind a bunch yesterday?  Just wondering.

 

He came through with a big punt from his endzone at the end of the Texans game.  Unfortunately, we still managed to blow that one.

I don't think he is fine. I think he is a below average punter. His idea of pinning the other team deep is kicking it to the 18 yard line. He needs to be trying to pin teams inside the 5. Neither his hang time or distance is good with any consistency. I hope we upgrade next year.

 

Bass at least has a big leg. If he turns it around he can be a dynamic kicker. That's a big if, and his seat should be very hot, but Martin doesn't have a big leg to begin with. I just don't think he has the ability to be a good punter. Can he be ok? Yes.

[ticketssince61]

4 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

Coaching is also suspect. Remember when we had a kickoff from the 50 yard line towards the end of the Jets game? Had we kicked the ball out of bounds the Jets would've started their drive at the 25. Instead we kicked for a touchback and Jets started at the 30. Either Bass meant to kick it out and butchered it (entirely possible), or our coaches don't know the rulebook. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41908327/houston-texans-kickoff-loophole-green-bay-packers-kaimi-fairbairn-week-7

 

I never knew that  it was spotted  25 yards from spot of kickoff. I just assumed that it was the 40 yard line

 

Heads up by the Texans to do that. Rule will probably be changed 

Edited 20 hours ago by ticketssince61

[HomeskillitMoorman]

ST have been a problem for a while now. We have a really weak kicking/punting game along with kickoff and punt coverage. It's a big weakness and we've seen like in the playoff game vs the Chiefs...it can be the difference. 

 

Absolutely zero work was unfortunately put in by Beane/McD to get better here in any area. 

[TheBrownBear]

9 minutes ago, MJS said:

I don't think he is fine. I think he is a below average punter. His idea of pinning the other team deep is kicking it to the 18 yard line. He needs to be trying to pin teams inside the 5. Neither his hang time or distance is good with any consistency. I hope we upgrade next year.

 

Bass at least has a big leg. If he turns it around he can be a dynamic kicker. That's a big if, and his seat should be very hot, but Martin doesn't have a big leg to begin with. I just don't think he has the ability to be a good punter. Can he be ok? Yes.

Don't get me wrong.  I'd love an elite punter and if we can upgrade in the offseason (or somehow during the season) then I'm all for it.  I just don't view him as a liability at this point the way I do with Bass. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1) To those blaming the loss of key ST players, those guys weren’t very good either. Neal and mantkaveitch were overrated. Neal had no spatial skills— couldn’t down a punt to save his life. I view the ST problems as really being a multi-year issue.

 

2) I agree with those who blame the coverage unit more than Martin. Martin actually had a well placed punt or two that our cover guys couldn’t down. I have no idea how our team is incapable of downing a punt inside the 5 or 10, yet everyone else does it regularly. 
 

3) that whiff by Solomon and near block by Martin isn’t something to ignore. We have had similar breakdowns the last two years. There is no way that we should be seeing free rushers. It’s embarrassing. 

[Saxum]

52 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

If the accusation was completely frivolous, Araiza should have filed a civil suit against the accuser after losing out on more than a million dollars from playing football. If he hasn't done that, he may well have been involved in an assault, in which case he shouldn't be in the NFL.

 

Araiza's advisor probably recommended to keep his name out of papers to make it easier to pay his fees and suing accuser would cost him more money since she like does not have assets to pay.

 

[Mikey152]

11 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

I never new that  it was spotted  25 yards from spot of kickoff. I just assumed that it was the 40 yard line

 

Heads up by the Texans to do that. Rule will probably be changed 

sounds silly, but it almost makes sense to get a personal foul intentionally.

[billsfanmiamioh]

It takes Martin FOREVER to get a punt off. I’ve never seen so many “near” blocks with regularity. It will continue to happen and I’m sure we’ll have one blocked at the worst possible time.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Martin is mediocre. He can't boom the ball and only has modest hang time. All the punt issues are on him. No punts have actually been blocked. I'm not going to complain about near blocks. That happens every game for every team. Martin needs to still deliver a good punt even when there is pressure.

 

The FG blocks are on Bass. His scatter shot kicks are sometimes barely over the line and easily tipped by just reaching your hand up.

 

Coddington makes good decisions and is dynamic with the ball in his hand. He is great, not just decent.

We will be drafting a kicker and punter this April.  Enough screwing around. Every single aspect of a football team is important and the Bills have historically neglected ST for years. Codrington is the only positive. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Let's see how did we lose to the Jets last year? How did we lose to the Broncos last year?  Oh yeah most of  those guys were on the team and the special teams blew those two games.  

 

Bass is the biggest question mark and has nothing to do with UDFAs.  Bishop should be our starting SS and he is on kick coverage unit. Hollins is supposed to be excellent at STs. So please don't say they are not still invested in STs.

 

Upgrading from Martin would be fine from me, but people on here believe holding for FGs is some magical skill.  

 

 

 

Definitely wasn't the 8 turnovers.  

[Toledo Bill]

It’s incomprehensible why Smiley wasn’t fired long ago.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Toledo Bill said:

It’s incomprehensible why Smiley wasn’t fired long ago.

 

I'd agree.  Just doesn't seem detail oriented enough to be a good coordinator there.  We're probably among the worst teams adjusting to the new kickoff rules.  Punt coverage is.. i'd say average but it feels below average.  We've fully commited to kicking it out of the end zone because we have no confidence in our unit.  Return units have been alright, but how much of that has been covington just being shifty and fast vs.  effective plays by the unit as a whole.  FGs and Punts have been blocked in his tenure.  What are we even doing right? 

[Don Otreply]

6 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I hate to complain after a win, but I am really concerned about our special teams.
 

We all know the issues with Bass. But beyond that, we have allowed multiple FG/PAT blocks, Martin almost had a punt blocked yesterday, and our coverage teams are generally terrible (which is reflective of Martin having one of the worst net averages and also us having almost no downed punts).

 

Coddrington has been decent enough as a return guy, which is probably the only bright spot.

 

But we have otherwise really generated no positive big plays on ST. 
 

what gives? And any ideas how to fix it? 
 

in the playoffs, the teams that win, tend to make the big splash plays on defense and special teams. 

Our special teams have never been good under McDermott, like his defense, special teams fail at the worst moments like clockwork, it’s like third and long…, 🤣😆😂

 

GO BILLS!!!

[HurlyBurly51]

5 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

It’s incomprehensible why Smiley wasn’t fired long ago.

[paulmm3]

Matt Araiza wasn't even at the party when the assault in question happened. Video showed him leaving 30min before. It's why no charges were filed. And his accuser absolutely deserves to be labeled a money grabbing wh***

 

Our problems on special teams seem to be more with the entire unit than with the specialists themselves.

[HurlyBurly51]

12 minutes ago, paulmm3 said:

Matt Araiza wasn't even at the party when the assault in question happened. Video showed him leaving 30min before. It's why no charges were filed. And his accuser absolutely deserves to be labeled a money grabbing wh***

 

Our problems on special teams seem to be more with the entire unit than with the specialists themselves.

Agreed.  What the hell did this other poster expect him to do - when he wasn't even there?!

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I hate to complain after a win, but I am really concerned about our special teams.
 

We all know the issues with Bass. But beyond that, we have allowed multiple FG/PAT blocks, Martin almost had a punt blocked yesterday, and our coverage teams are generally terrible (which is reflective of Martin having one of the worst net averages and also us having almost no downed punts).

 

Coddrington has been decent enough as a return guy, which is probably the only bright spot.

 

But we have otherwise really generated no positive big plays on ST. 
 

what gives? And any ideas how to fix it? 
 

in the playoffs, the teams that win, tend to make the big splash plays on defense and special teams. 

I’ve waved this red flag a few times. I continue to think coaching/preparation is a big challenge - more than talent 

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

1) To those blaming the loss of key ST players, those guys weren’t very good either. Neal and mantkaveitch were overrated. Neal had no spatial skills— couldn’t down a punt to save his life. I view the ST problems as really being a multi-year issue.

 

2) I agree with those who blame the coverage unit more than Martin. Martin actually had a well placed punt or two that our cover guys couldn’t down. I have no idea how our team is incapable of downing a punt inside the 5 or 10, yet everyone else does it regularly. 
 

3) that whiff by Solomon and near block by Martin isn’t something to ignore. We have had similar breakdowns the last two years. There is no way that we should be seeing free rushers. It’s embarrassing. 

add in the wrong number of guys on the field issues (even just the ones we have caught)…. The design of the Hamlin fake… the unit being on different pages for 13 seconds… 

 

there’s been a good number of mishaps in addition to multiple tips this year and bass falling apart

[14774]

I hope that everyone pining for better Special Teams play aren't any of the same people who scoff at the notion of Tasker being a HOFer. STs is absolutely 1/3 of the game and a disruptive Gunner can absolutely steal wins. An "automatic" kicker and an accurate punter are invaluable too. ST Coordinator shouldn't be a dink either.