Ray Davis and James Cook

[PoundingDog]

Come on now people start to compare Ray Davis to McCoy, who in my mind is close to borderline HoF. 

 

Ray Davis is better with Gap Run scheme because, as we see it clearly in 7 games that he excels at finding and hitting (tight) creases quickly and decisively with power. Cook is better at Zone scheme where he is excellent in reading the defense in depth and finding the best space, which in theory often leads to bigger runs. Most team run blocking do both and this year, noticeably, Cook is getting better at Gap Runs. None of them is Thurman Thomas or even McCoy at this stage.

 

I do think in Bills offense, you probably expect big plays coming from Allen's passing so Davis's running style fits the overall offensive strategy better: steady average 3-5 yard per run, very few negative plays, occasionally breaking tackles for 10+ yards, Emmit Smith lite. The defense will have a light box because they want to play 2 deep to take away the big play from Allen. 

[streetkings01]

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

Ty started the game against the Jet's. Davis came in 2nd. It's working, I don't mess with it at this point. 

Did you actually watch the Jets game? Ty Johnson started the first play…..on the same drive Davis had 6 carries for 48 yards….he had runs of 3, 14,6,5,15 and 5. What’s to not mess with?

 

The offense was in a slump the last 2 games prior to the Jets games. Ray Davis the lead back against the Jets…out of our slump. Offense was in a slump 1st half vs the Titans….Davis gets work second half and we’re out of the slump. I wouldn’t mess with that formula right now.

Edited October 21 by streetkings01

[PoundingDog]

I'll add the different run schemes also depend on what kind of O-Linemen we have. Ostroski said in his show he prefers Gap Run because he does not have to hold the block very long. So that plays into against the opposing defense as well. If you face a star D Tackle like Simmons of the Titans, an O-lineman (or linemen) firing off the ball will likely have better success to initially knockoff him for a second; if the RB hit the hole right then, your job is done. But given time, the good D tackle will probably recover and close the crease.   

[Italian Bills]

3 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Yeah Davis had a good game.  How about enjoy it rather than manifesting a RB controversy.  

It’s not a RB controversy at all my friend. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Watching Ray Davis highlights and he really has tremendous balance. He spins out of hits and keeps his balance moving forward like Thurman Thomas did.

We're lucky to have 2 really good backs on the cheap.

Edited October 21 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Maynard]

I’m expecting them both to have an awesome game against Seattle. Hope we run it down their throats! 

[sunshynman]

45 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

Did you actually watch the Jets game? Ty Johnson started the first play…..on the same drive Davis had 6 carries for 48 yards….he had runs of 3, 14,6,5,15 and 5. What’s to not mess with?

 

The offense was in a slump the last 2 games prior to the Jets games. Ray Davis the lead back against the Jets…out of our slump. Offense was in a slump 1st half vs the Titans….Davis gets work second half and we’re out of the slump. I wouldn’t mess with that formula right now.

Yes, I watched, Ty started. Then Davis came in. Hence, he wasn't the starter, like I said. And right now, he is better as the 2nd guy in. Keeps him hungry. And you play your punishing back as the game goes on, because you pound a tired defense. Ray may be a starter soon rather than later. But right now, its Cook when he is healthy and Ray and Ty sharing the relief. Cook is a home run threat, although we do him a disservice but not getting him out in space enough. Ray looks like he can be as well. Good problem to have!

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Davis is going to be the reason why Cook isn't extended.  Cook is good but I just don't like tying a lot of money into a RB.

 

won't surprise me if we draft another RB late next year 

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think that we are going to need both of them this week. Seattle has a decent defense. Good on the boundary at CB. But they are prone to getting gashed in the run game. 

 

I would use Davis a bit earlier in the game and pound the ball inside. Wear them down some and then let Cook come in and slide around a tired defense.

yep <I am considering that is a great contrast between Cook and Davis , and then Ty

 I might be off with my thoughts , considering how little Davis has put on tape. But he seems to enjoy running between the tackles. And those guys up front seem to like it too !

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

I’m start thinking that this rookie has something special… do you agree ? Not only at running, but like a pass catcher also. 
 

James Cook is a very good rb, but maybe, repeat, maybe, Davis is the real deal. 

I agree, Davis has something to him.

 

James Cook trade candidate some day?

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Both are fun to watch, but my main takeaway is that RBs are just a dime a dozen so long as you have everything else in place- scheme, blockers who fit that scheme, a QB defenses have to respect/can’t stack the box against, and runners who simply understand which holes to hit and when. Not saying that guys like him and Cook don’t have certain intangibles that make them above average RBs, but I think as a GM I’d find it almost impossible to ever extend one who wanted to be paid like CMC or Barkley.  
 

[DC Greg]

4 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

I saw McCoy out there when i watch Ray Davis.  Very similar run style.

This is a wild comparison. Shady was one of one the way he ran and carried the ball. I can’t think of another back to compare to his crazy, shifty, amazing style. Maybe Barry Sanders? I’m not saying shady was at Barry’s level at all, just maybe that they both had very unique foot and upper body work they could muster to make guys miss.

 

Ray Davis would be the last one I would compare. He makes one cut and hits the hole so fast and hard, looking to run right through first and second contact. Dude is a tank. Shady was a ninja.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think Davis is going to be the reason why Cook isn't extended.  Cook is good but I just don't like tying a lot of money into a RB.

I often wonder why folks project this.

Are you already doing "next " ?
 Lets give Davis a full season

And I would keep Cook if we could. I suggest they both work well with Kromer's boys and are the main reason (running the ball well)

lets let next season wait a bit 😏 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

I'll add the different run schemes also depend on what kind of O-Linemen we have. Ostroski said in his show he prefers Gap Run because he does not have to hold the block very long. So that plays into against the opposing defense as well. If you face a star D Tackle like Simmons of the Titans, an O-lineman (or linemen) firing off the ball will likely have better success to initially knockoff him for a second; if the RB hit the hole right then, your job is done. But given time, the good D tackle will probably recover and close the crease.   

And Titans have a stout line for sure. showed in the 1st half

 I like they mix it up when needed depending. That is just good football on both side of the ball 👍

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

Bills have good players and depth at the RB position. Great problem to have!

 

This is partly what frustrates me about Brady.  He has an all-world QB and the OL, RB, and TE groups are good.  The only weak position group was WR.  Yet there have been some whole games, and big chunks of others, when the offense has looked inept.  

 

Then again, it looked great in the 2nd half against a good Titan defense.  

 

As an OC, Brady is the strange case of Dr. Jekyll and  Mr. Hyde.

 

Edited October 21 by hondo in seattle

[3rdand12]

40 minutes ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Both are fun to watch, but my main takeaway is that RBs are just a dime a dozen so long as you have everything else in place- scheme, blockers who fit that scheme, a QB defenses have to respect/can’t stack the box against, and runners who simply understand which holes to hit and when. Not saying that guys like him and Cook don’t have certain intangibles that make them above average RBs, but I think as a GM I’d find it almost impossible to ever extend one who wanted to be paid like CMC or Barkley.  
 

How long has it been since the Bills had a strong, consistent and effective run game ?

 A dime a dozen ? But teams have a budget and I respect that

 Perhaps I am more favorable of The Run game than most, and really enjoying these 3 backs having fun this year.

 Go Bills

[GASabresIUFan]

Everyone should just be thankful that we have 3 good backs and good OL that creates holes for them to run through.  I do wish we’d find a way to get Cook into space on the outside more consistently.

Edited October 21 by GASabresIUFan

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Lest not forget Ty Johnson 

I was not expecting Ty Johnson to be as good a receiver as he's been this year. Quite the surprise. 

 

We also have Darrynton Evans in the wings. I feel very good about our depth at RB.

[sunshynman]

2 hours ago, DC Greg said:

This is a wild comparison. Shady was one of one the way he ran and carried the ball. I can’t think of another back to compare to his crazy, shifty, amazing style. Maybe Barry Sanders? I’m not saying shady was at Barry’s level at all, just maybe that they both had very unique foot and upper body work they could muster to make guys miss.

 

Ray Davis would be the last one I would compare. He makes one cut and hits the hole so fast and hard, looking to run right through first and second contact. Dude is a tank. Shady was a ninja.

Yes, He is reminding me of a nimbler MJD. A newer smarter bowling ball !

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This is partly what frustrates my about Brady.  He has an all-world QB and the OL, RB, and TE groups are good.  The only weak position group was WR.  Yet there have been some whole games, and big chunks of others, when the offense has looked inept.  

 

Then again, it looked great in the 2nd half against a good Titan defense.  

 

As an OC, Brady is the strange case of Dr. Jekyll and  Mr. Hyde.

I think some of its on Brady, but this team has always shown the same tendencies year after year. They have 1/4's, 1/2's, games where execution sucks. Alot if it depends on Allen. And then not having enough weapons around him. Right now, we have a good balance of other weapons that are contributing. And the OL play is the biggest piece to that puzzle for me. The Ravens and Houston did a lot of stunting, and it made our OL look like *****, The Jet's tried, but it seems like we fixed that issue. Not sure if the Titans were doing much.

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, Andrew Son said:

This team has a hell of a running game with three capable backs.

 

This going to play dividends in the postseason.  Previously our one dimensional attack was built to rack up regular season stats/wins.  But I like this build for postseason success.

 

I don't see it. We're 19th in rush YPA, 19th in rush YPG. It feels like we want to be a balanced offense (we're 8th in rush percentage at 48.86%) but we don't have the interior OL or the run scheme to to be anything more than average.