KC vs. Buffalo's record a microcosm of the Allen/Mahomes debate

[8BallSippin]

KC has a better HC, and in a game of inches, in a game where one situational play wins or loses.... McDermott is outmatched. 

 

That is the difference.

[sven233]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

I am still waiting for someone to knock Mahomes head off when he runs towards the sidelines and then turns upfield.  

 

Until someone does it, he will just keep doing it.  He knows he will get away with it because guys will get flags and fines just for breathing on him.  But maybe if someone finally lights him up, he'll think twice about it going forward.  But I won't hold my breath for it to happen.

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

It's not a team game. 

Here i will prove it to you.

Close your eyes and imagine Mitch Trubisky as the Bills QB.

Now open your eyes and tell me if the Bills even win one game with Trubisky as QB.

 

They would win much more than one game, what is your point?  The Steelers won a bunch with him, he won a bunch with Chicago, above 500 and got his team to the playoffs twice.  You think the Bills would not win a single game?  Delusional.........

[Billl]

23 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

The wrong way? To your perspective, sure. I can see that with what you’ve said. 
 

The other argument, my perspective, is that they have got bigger issues that aren’t going to mitigated by “mashing the accelerator” come crunch time, seem average on the road and play their better football at home. On top of that, are in for an 11 game stretch before the end of the season. 
 

The 9ers, especially Purdy, beat themselves and gifted KC an ugly win. 

I'm pretty sure Travis Kelce is getting more than 5 targets in any playoff game that goes down to the wire. I'm also pretty confident that Reid has goal line plays he's saving for when it really matters. That confidence comes from watching it happen every season. They struggle in the red zone all year and then toss the ball to a receiver who doesn't have a defender within 10 yards of him in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. 

 

There is a very real difference between October and January with this team.

[sven233]

2 minutes ago, 8BallSippin said:

KC has a better HC, and in a game of inches, in a game where one situational play wins or loses.... McDermott is outmatched. 

 

That is the difference.

 

It's this......  Nobody will ever convince me that Mahomes is head and shoulders better than Allen.  In fact, in many ways, I believe Allen is the better player.  In many of their matchups, Allen has outplayed him, but as it always seems to go, McDermott and his staff gets badly out-coached in critical situations.  The Chiefs were the better overall team in our first playoff match up.  They were more talented at that time.  But ever since then, to me, it has been even at worse and I may even argue we have been the better team.  13 seconds.....that needs no explanation.  That should never happen.  And, if it doesn't, a lot of the narrative that is out there may not exist, but alas, McDermott got his butt handed to him in a crucial situation.  Last year?  Injuries to many of our key players definitely played a part.  They were completely healthy and we were without guys that created very fortunate match ups for them, particularly on defense.

 

Make no mistake about it.  The difference between the Chiefs winning 3 Super Bowls or being bounced in the Playoffs by us the last 2 times we have met is a very fine line.  13 seconds is still aggravating and even if we had a healthy Bernard and nothing else last year, I believe that game goes differently.  But it is what it is.  Stupid things created this narrative we are kind of stuck in and until we break it, it will always be there.

[Norcalbillsfan]

It always has been and forever will be the genius that is: Andy Reid, spags, mahomes, kelce VS josh go be a hero and win us this game.

[What a Tuel]

17 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Chiefs have played a real schedule to this point.  The combined record of the teams they've played is 21-18.   They've beaten both the Ravens and the Bengals.   The Bills meanwhile have played teams with a combined record of 19-25 and have yet to beat a team with a winning record.    They were blown out of the water by the Ravens.   Let's pump the brakes on this for a bit.   Josh laid an absolute egg against the Texans.   Josh is fantastic but Mahomes is better until Josh proves otherwise, and he hasnt.    Reid is a better coach than McDermott, but Josh has been the reason they've lost games too.   He plays even the slightest bit better against Houston and thats a win. 

 

Personally, if played today I think the Bills would lose to KC, Baltimore, Houston, and Cincinatti.   

 

The Chiefs had a bye week. Add in the Raiders next week which is basically a guaranteed win at this point and its basically even. So your argument doesn't really hold up. The arguments that "we haven't beat anyone with a winning record" is going to resurface again which is such a silly argument. You play who your schedule says you play. 

 

Bills

2-4 Cardinals

2-4 Dolphins

2-5 Jaguars

4-2 Ravens

5-2 Texans

2-5 Jets

1-5 Titans

18-27

 

Chiefs

4-2 Ravens

3-4 Bengals

4-3 Falcons 

3-2 Chargers

2-5 Saints

3-4 49ers (without Deebo Samuel, Christian McCaffrey, Brandon Aiyuk)

19-20

2-6 Raiders

21-26

Edited 22 hours ago by What a Tuel

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

If he was playing to Josh's standard against Houston in week five, I think he would have found something to at least take it to OT if not win.

 

If he was playing like Josh did against Houston the Chiefs defense would have held them to like 17 points and they would have won easily.

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

I'm pretty sure Travis Kelce is getting more than 5 targets in any playoff game that goes down to the wire. I'm also pretty confident that Reid has goal line plays he's saving for when it really matters. That confidence comes from watching it happen every season. They struggle in the red zone all year and then toss the ball to a receiver who doesn't have a defender within 10 yards of him in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. 

 

There is a very real difference between October and January with this team.

I agree-  Reid and Spags have become the most clutch coaching duo in recent history.  They know how to dial up the right plays when they need them at a higher rate than any team I can remember.  And when reid does happen to outwitted, Mahomes and Kelce are there to improvise and make up for it.  

This could be their biggest test.  Finally bitten by the injury bug, but still undefeated. How long can the great coaching and defense carry Mahomes?
 

Will Mahomes turn things around and end the season with more TDs than Ints? 6 TDs- 8 Ints atm.  Mostly in jest- as I find it nuts that you’re 7-0 and and your all world QB has a 6-8 ratio.  That’s some insane coaching. 

 

Will they suffer more injuries?  Can worthy survive a full nfl season + playoffs?

[Dopey]

19 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree and disagree.  

Mahomes has the duo of Reid & Spags  - the best head coach/opposite side coordinator duo in the league.   In contrast, Allen has McD and a rotating cast of OC wannabees.

 

But both QBs have had to overcome, at times, bad decisions by their coaches.  And both QBs have had the advantage of playing for a good head coach in a league that has some bad ones.  

 

But yeah, Reid & Spags have helped Mahomes win Lombardis and make his reputation.  

 

😂😂😂😂  It’s more like Mahomes made Reid’s reputation. 

KC doesn’t have a better coach, they have a more experienced coach, with the best QB out there. Until he got Mahomes, Reid was Marty Schottenheimer II. It took him 20 years to win a SB and he had pretty good QB’s under his helm. Reid wasn’t going to win a SB with his average coaching. It took a QB like Mahomes to get Andy over the 20 YEAR hill his fat ass couldn’t get over. I’m going to guess deep down in his heart, Beane agrees. I’m sure if he was in charge one year earlier, he drafts Mahomes instead of trading the pick. 

[ToGoGo]

So tired of the same stale arguments over and over and over. 
 

Here’s a new one. The Chiefs are a mirage. They are on a slow decline and are not as good as their record. They will lose in the 1st or 2nd round this year. 
 

The Allen vs Mahomes narrative will switch to Mahomes can’t beat Allen in the playoffs because his team is not as good as the Bills. 
 

This will all happen with McDermott as coach. And lots of fans will need to look inward and figure out why they picked a scapegoat when it was only chance and the flip of a coin that prevented the Bills from winning the big one sooner. 

[UKBillFan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

If he was playing like Josh did against Houston the Chiefs defense would have held them to like 17 points and they would have won easily.

 

Yeah, you could be right with that.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Yeah, you could be right with that.

 

Honest question for you - if Allen so far this year had 7 total TDs and 8 total turnovers (instead of the 15 TDs and 2 turnovers he has) what would our record be right now? I'm going with 2-5. 3-4 is the absolute ceiling.

 

There's no need to pretend Mahomes has some kind of magic ability that allows him to get away with such a poor TD to INT ratio. The Chiefs as a team have an incredibly high margin for error. We are the polar opposite.

[90sBills]

21 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

So tired of the same stale arguments over and over and over. 
 

Here’s a new one. The Chiefs are a mirage. They are on a slow decline and are not as good as their record. They will lose in the 1st or 2nd round this year. 
 

The Allen vs Mahomes narrative will switch to Mahomes can’t beat Allen in the playoffs because his team is not as good as the Bills. 
 

This will all happen with McDermott as coach. And lots of fans will need to look inward and figure out why they picked a scapegoat when it was only chance and the flip of a coin that prevented the Bills from winning the big one sooner. 

This isn’t new. The exact same things were said last year during the regular season. 

[hondo in seattle]

50 minutes ago, Dopey said:

😂😂😂😂  It’s more like Mahomes made Reid’s reputation. 

KC doesn’t have a better coach, they have a more experienced coach, with the best QB out there. Until he got Mahomes, Reid was Marty Schottenheimer II. It took him 20 years to win a SB and he had pretty good QB’s under his helm. Reid wasn’t going to win a SB with his average coaching. It took a QB like Mahomes to get Andy over the 20 YEAR hill his fat ass couldn’t get over. I’m going to guess deep down in his heart, Beane agrees. I’m sure if he was in charge one year earlier, he drafts Mahomes instead of trading the pick. 

 

I see your point of view and maybe there's a little truth in both our positions.

 

Reid made the playoffs in something like 14 of 18 seasons before Mahomes.  He was a very good coach but he either lacked the coaching skill or the roster to get a ring.  Bad luck might have played a role, too.  

 

Reid, Spags, and Mahomes are all talented at what they do.  They form demonstrably the best HC/opposite coordinator/QB trio in the NFL.  Each contributes to those Lombardis and helps the others look good.  

[Dr.Sack]

Mahomes doesn’t look so good without a HOF caliber WR1 and TE1. I mean the dude was blessed with an amazing 3 cone agility and baseball father arm, but he does have the GOAT of NFL offensive coaches and the Def Coordinator who shut down the 2007 GOAT Patriots and 2011 Gronk Pats.

[artmalibu]

I think in the debate one must consider circumstances..

 

Judge the player, not the scheme, or the players around them..

 

 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

On 10/20/2024 at 7:51 PM, balln said:

Gotta be clean , buttoned up in playoffs. Were too herky jerky / inconsistent 

Physical. And well prepared.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Honest question for you - if Allen so far this year had 7 total TDs and 8 total turnovers (instead of the 15 TDs and 2 turnovers he has) what would our record be right now? I'm going with 2-5. 3-4 is the absolute ceiling.

 

There's no need to pretend Mahomes has some kind of magic ability that allows him to get away with such a poor TD to INT ratio. The Chiefs as a team have an incredibly high margin for error. We are the polar opposite.

yes

been saying this for years

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Chiefs as a team have an incredibly high margin for error. We are the polar opposite

This is true, but only recently. 
 

If Mahome was playing like this in 2018-2021, the Chiefs would’ve been not good.