What exactly is the real story with Mike Edwards?

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So then, lets look at logic yes?

 

Hamlin's PFF scores are about the same as Edwards was last year. 

Edwards had 1 INT all last year and Hamlin on track for the same, maybe even 2 or 3 with way more tackles. 

 

Hamlin is more physical and does well in the box. 

 

NOW....  I am not going to slam Dan Mitchel for this because there was "bigger" media talking about this well before Dan was.   

Edwards lost the battle and although Hamlin makes mistakes.. he is getting a little bit better. 

 

nothing to see here. 

 

I 100% agree with your post Thurman, I just wanted to break it down more. 

Agreed. A few fans and media heads have been dumping on Hamlin, and now everyone is brainwashed into believing that Hamlin is terrible and losing games for us.

 

It just isn't true. He has been fine. Not amazing. Not bad. Just fine. It would be nice to upgrade at some point, but he isn't out there ruining the defense. He can hold the position down for a season.

[Brand J]

38 minutes ago, 26TrapDraw said:

If Hamlin beat out Edward’s for the job that tells me everything I need to know about Edward’s. I don’t want him anywhere near the field.

Edwards was a former 2019 3rd round draft pick out of Kentucky. He’s much more athletic than Hamlin and has career stats of:

235 tackles

3 sacks

1 forced fumble

5 fumble recoveries

26 passes defensed 

8 INTs

4 defensive TDs

Hard to believe he’s not a better overall player than Hamlin. I referenced Poona Ford as someone who was a starter with Seattle, came to the Bills and struggled to get on the field (in a rotation no less) and then left to be a starter again in Los Angeles. McD has his guys and rolls with them, despite better potential on the bench. 

 

[947]

When we signed Edwards, everyone thought that is he was a "good" player for KC, McD's DB wizardry would make him really good, like he did with Poyer/Hyde. It hasn't happened, but I don't understand why we don't at least give him some plays & see what he can do.

[Maine-iac]

42 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Edwards was a former 2019 3rd round draft pick out of Kentucky. He’s much more athletic than Hamlin and has career stats of:

235 tackles

3 sacks

1 forced fumble

5 fumble recoveries

26 passes defensed 

8 INTs

4 defensive TDs

Hard to believe he’s not a better overall player than Hamlin. I referenced Poona Ford as someone who was a starter with Seattle, came to the Bills and struggled to get on the field (in a rotation no less) and then left to be a starter again in Los Angeles. McD has his guys and rolls with them, despite better potential on the bench. 

 

What makes him much more athletic than Hamlin?  Almost identical 40 times, 3 cone, and vertical with Hamlin being 4 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier.  At best Edwards has a slight edge in speed but being much smaller and new to the system that slight edge is easily beat out by someone who knows where they should be in each coverage.  Especially when we play so light in the box.  Having a bigger safety is probably more needed than the difference between a 4.56 vs a 4.63 40 yard dash.  

Edited October 19 by Maine-iac

[Mr. WEO]

which one is he now?

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

 

Logically, one might come to the conclusion that our head coach who is very experienced in developing defensive backs in his system, has decided that the guy you might have expected to play has been determined to be worse in this system than the guy that is playing ahead of him.

 

His coaching and development of DBs earns him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Benford is very very good and most of this forum was wrong about him and Elam. Sean was right.

But have you considered the possibility that Edwards is a 28 year old career backup who is actually a dynamic player just waiting to explode onto the scene and that McDermott (and Steve Spagnuolo and Todd Bowles) simply doesn’t notice what’s right under his nose?

[frostbitmic]

If I were Mike Edwards I'd try to be a little more impressive at practice and those rare occurrences that he gets on the field during a game, He's not exactly being beaten out by an all star group of Safeties here.

[JohnNord]

16 hours ago, Jukester said:

I’m not into conspiracies. I like logic. To me logically, a healthy Edwards plays ahead of Hamlin. He was a starter on a Super Bowl winning team. If he’s truly still injured, then fine. But he’s not listed with an injury. If this is about contributing on special teams, then that’s stupid. 

I’ll agree it doesn’t make sense but at the same time, I don’t the reason he’s not active is because of Special Teams.  There has to be something he’s not doing well in practice 

 

 

 

[Brand J]

51 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

What makes him much more athletic than Hamlin?  Almost identical 40 times, 3 cone, and vertical with Hamlin being 4 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier.  At best Edwards has a slight edge in speed but being much smaller and new to the system that slight edge is easily beat out by someone who knows where they should be in each coverage.  Especially when we play so light in the box.  Having a bigger safety is probably more needed than the difference between a 4.56 vs a 4.63 40 yard dash.  

Sorry, I shouldn’t have said “much more athletic,” but Edwards does have the better profile. Hamlin also isn’t 4 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier, not sure where you’re getting your numbers. 
 

As to @Billl’s post, it’s less about believing Edwards is an untapped gem of a player, and more about questioning can he play safety at a higher level than Damar Hamlin. 
 

This is slightly off topic, but on brand with the post: If Elam goes off and signs with a different club, becomes a starter, and makes plays for that team, half the Bills fanbase will be in an uproar because he was here, drafted in the 1st, and couldn’t get on the field. Moral of the story is, if the player isn’t significantly better than the guy ahead of him, he’ll always be at the mercy of sport politics. Happens to most who aren’t superstars. 

[Billzgobowlin]

As we have seen with other players coming here, especially on defense, better doesn't necessarily mean best for this team.  While most of us worry about individual stats it has to come in the confines of this team and it's gameplan.  I think that's why Elam never starts.  Edwards might be better but that doesn't mean bought in.  Dorian is a fantastic example.  We all know he is supremely talented but ultimately unfocused about what was happening around him.  He has shown growth this year and shows the ability to play with the team instead of hotdogging.  Just a thought

[I'm Spartacus]

2 hours ago, 26TrapDraw said:

If Hamlin beat out Edward’s for the job that tells me everything I need to know about Edward’s. I don’t want him anywhere near the field.

If Hamlin beat out Edwards for the job, that tells me everything I need to know about Beane and the scouting department. Too many veteran pick ups that end up sitting the bench or not very good. Waste of money then as a 4th option safety.

[Jukester]

Good discussion. I wasn’t trying to create a conspiracy theory with my OP. It was just perplexing to me that he hasn’t been seeing the field at all once he got healthy, not even that he should be starting, especially considering that he was regarded as a key FA signing 

 

After reading all the comments and thinking about it more, it probably boils down to a combination of things:

1. I do believe that it takes a lot to gain McD’s trust. players that have been in the system have an inherent advantage. 
2. Edwards’ injuries in OTA and training camp put him behind and didn’t allow him to compete early on.
3. In season opportunities for Edwards to impress in practice are limited because he’s not practicing with the first team. 

3. The other safeties - Hamlin and Bishop, while not great, have played just well enough to keep McD happy and keep Edwards on the bench. Rapp seems to be playing really well since he came back from the concussion.

Having said all that, it would be nice if he got on the field a bit to see what he’s got, even if it’s to spell the others or in garbage time. 

[balln]

35 minutes ago, I'm Spartacus said:

If Hamlin beat out Edwards for the job, that tells me everything I need to know about Beane and the scouting department. Too many veteran pick ups that end up sitting the bench or not very good. Waste of money then as a 4th option safety.

Yea. He doesn’t even dress

[jcamm1966]

Who cares dump him and move on

[Saxum]

23 minutes ago, Jukester said:

Having said all that, it would be nice if he got on the field a bit to see what he’s got, even if it’s to spell the others or in garbage time. 

 

Exactly - he needs to show what he can do with game not being on line before replacing players who HAVE shown what they can do on the field for Bills during season.  Perhaps they can have packages with more than 5 DBs on field which how Hyde got his experience in Green Bay initially.  When he is put on field he will be targeted by opposing team and can cost game and how many fans will be carrying torch to burn coach who made decision if that happens.

 

Next time they have a blowout the Bills can afford the chance for him to get more reps.   He has had 7 snaps on defense and 13 snaps on special teams during 3 games.

[wjag]

The Mike Edwards saga is truly an albatross on the Bills brain trust.

[K D]

It's about the $. It's my understanding that if he plays or meets certain thresholds then he makes substantially more $ and they don't want to or can't pay him so they are keeping him on the bench unless they really really need him. I think Hamlin is bad but they are hoping he turns into something because of how cheap he is by comparison 

[DCofNC]

Isn’t it obvious?  He’s SO versatile, they have to keep him on the bench at all times so they have a back up to every position.  It’s like that OL from a couple years back.

[Jukester]

20 minutes ago, K D said:

It's about the $. It's my understanding that if he plays or meets certain thresholds then he makes substantially more $ and they don't want to or can't pay him so they are keeping him on the bench unless they really really need him. I think Hamlin is bad but they are hoping he turns into something because of how cheap he is by comparison 

That’s something I hadn’t factored in, but come on, that would be so bush league if that were truly the case.

Base Salary $1,240,000

Signing Bonus $1,000,000 Workout Bonus $50,000

Cap Hit $2,800,000

D ead Cap Value $1,600,000

Guaranteed $1.6M (signing bonus + $600,000 of salary)

Per game active bonus: $30,000 ($510,000)

 

Playing Time Incentives
(non-cumulative)
58%: $250,000
70%: $550,000
80%: $725,000

 

Interceptions Incentives
(non-cumulative)
2: $200,000
3: $350,000
4: $475,000

Edited October 19 by Jukester

[folz]

17 hours ago, Jukester said:

I think it’s safe to say we were all very happy with this signing in the offseason. With his experience and success in KC, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he’d be a starter here. Then some injuries happened in the preseason. But still possibly inactive in week 7?? 

 

You mention Mike Edwards experience and success in KC, and the tweet talks about him being a ball hawk on two Super Bowl teams. That makes him sound pretty good. But, let's be real, Mike Edwards has been a career backup to this point, who got some playing time due to injuries.

 

He has 28 starts total, now in his 6th year. That means, he has been a starter for only 30% of his career thus far. He only started 5 games for Kansas City last year. He has averaged 5 starts per year over 6 years (most of that coming in 2022 for Tampa with 12 starts---also due to injury---he came off the bench).

 

I think the only reason anyone penciled him in as a starter for the Bills this year is because with the loss of Hyde and Poyer, we felt that the cupboard was bare at safety (and obviously he was picked up before Cole was drafted). It's not because he was some All-Pro safety, but because we knew we needed someone, anyone back there.

 

Damar has been in McDermott's system for four years now. The safety position in McD's defense needs to be the QB of the secondary, know exactly what they and everyone else on the field should be doing. With all of the time that Edwards missed early, it's not surprising that MCD felt more comfortable with Damar than Edwards or a rookie. It's a complicated position in McD's defense.

 

And obviously, Damar outplayed him to get the spot (talk in camp was that Damar was playing really well, while Edwards was still nursing injuries). There isn't as much time in-season (as opposed to off-season) to get young guys or backups up to speed as you are preparing your starters for the games. So, maybe Edwards just hasn't been able to show enough to unseat Damar (at least to this point). Edwards may have better ball skills (defending the pass) than Damar, but McD obviously feels Damar's knowledge of the system and sure tackling is the safer bet back there right now.