Is the NFL declining?

[Rocky Landing]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Roughing the passer is the new “was that a catch?” The one Rodgers admits was nonsense infuriated me. In what world was that roughing?  😡 

 

 

.

It was unfortunate, but I'm not mad at it. From the initial angle they showed on TV, which I believe was the same side the official was on, it did look like he landed on Rodgers with his full weight, which is a flag. Other angles showed that it was a clean sack. It was sticky tacky, sure, but not a egregious call, IMO.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

It was unfortunate, but I'm not mad at it. From the initial angle they showed on TV, which I believe was the same side the official was on, it did look like he landed on Rodgers with his full weight, which is a flag. Other angles showed that it was a clean sack. It was sticky tacky, sure, but not an egregious call, IMO.

Still no excuse. That was obvious IMO, and they should have huddled up and gotten it right. Gravity applies to everybody.  Even the QB says it was silly, so I feel pretty confident in my feelings on this. 

[Nephilim17]

Despite rules going too far too help offenses and protect QBs, I think one cause for optimism is the league has a lot promising younger QBs.

I remember about 10 years ago or so with Manning, Brading, Big Ben and Rivers aging, there didn't seem like a lot of good young QBs ready to take over when these legends were gone. You had a lot of guys like Mariota in the wings. Not good.

I think that's been corrected. Not sure if it's OCs using college-friendly schemes (I don't watch college ball and can't say) or what but we have a lot of good young QBs in the league and that's vital.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Despite rules going too far too help offenses and protect QBs, I think one cause for optimism is the league has a lot promising younger QBs.

I remember about 10 years ago or so with Manning, Brading, Big Ben and Rivers aging, there didn't seem like a lot of good young QBs ready to take over when these legends were gone. You had a lot of guys like Mariota in the wings. Not good.

I think that's been corrected. Not sure if it's OCs using college-friendly schemes (I don't watch college ball and can't say) or what but we have a lot of good young QBs in the league and that's vital.

 

These kids have been throwing thousands of passes in 7 on 7’s and summer camps since middle school. Those things did not always exist the way they do now, so more kids are being prepared at a younger age. 

[Eastport bills]

On 10/18/2024 at 12:13 PM, Shaw66 said:

I'm watching less NFL that I have in recent seasons. Sunday I didn't start watching football until 6 pm or so. I'm less interested, and I think the quality of the product is down, which adds to my disinterest. 

 

I think Prime's broadcasts are terrible and actually leave me less interested in the NFL. They almost encourage me to turn it off. They do some tricked up digital manipulation of the images to give you a more in-your-face-sense to the whole thing, but all it does is make it more difficult to watch the game. I think they do the digital manipulation to try to cover up the fact that their shows are produced more cheaply, with fewer cameras and less talent. Al Michaels and Herbstreet are horrible. Everything about the product I see and hear makes me want to turn it off, and sometimes I do. I turned it on last night late in the third quarter, watched 15 minutes, and turned it off.

 

Bills-Jets on on ESPN on Monday night was a flop, too.  A lot of penalties, and a lot of indecisiveness by the officials really chopped up the pace of the game and the broadcast. And instead of saving the day with quality talk, Buck and Aikman stumbled through the broadcast all out of sync, too. At one point, no one seemed to know which team had taken a timeout, but the refs were proceeding with the game, unaware that everyone lacked this information. And Aikman and Buck were slow to pick up on the problem. Meanwhile, fans wanted to know. And the teams played sloppy, things were too chippy .  Add it all up - bad play, missed opportunities, too many penalties, indecisive officiating, broadcast team that fails to save the show, I can understand why some fans may start saying, "I don't need to watch every game."  It's not very good TV.

 

If I were the NFL, I'd want more control over production. I wouldn't let Prime screw around with the video presentation. 

 

I'd want better, more professional broadcasters from Fox and CBS. The color commentators, particularly, are weak. Former players trying to talk comfortably into a microphone about something meaningful but not too technical for about 25 seconds. That's hard to do, and if a former player is really good at it, he's Michael Strahan or Peyton Manning and he's not going to be doing color commentary.  So, you get a lot of amateurish chatter about the same old things - momentum, smash-mouth football, etc - coming from guys who simply are not professional talkers. I don't know what's to be done about it, but if I were the NFL, I'd be worried that people like me are finding it easier to turn off games. 

 

I said this to a friend of mine who sent me the following, which was published somewhere:

 

One of the reasons I'm less interested is that it still feels like preseason. More so than most years, teams are trying to figure out how to play, and week to week they look really good to really ugly. Denver's defense last night looked spectacular, playing the way the Bills want to play. They had speed at every position, they were getting pressure on the QB every play, challenging the entire offensive line. How much that had to do with the Saints being bad and not having Carr, I don't know. Whether Denver will be playing like that in December is anyone's guess. So, I view these games as expendable. In late November and December, we'll know which teams are at .500 or better, and that's when the real season will start. In the meantime, I don't care all that much what happens except, of course, to the Bills. 

 

And speaking of the Bills, they've given a good example of what I'm talking about. It used to be that teams fixed their rosters in the off-season, and then they played the season. It's almost as though the good teams now don't fix their rosters until October, when they make one or two splashy acquisitions. We spent a lot of time this summer talking about what the Bills' receiver room, and it was all rendered moot when they trade for Cooper. NOW the Bills have the receiver room that they intend to play the season with. In a sense, the first six games have been preseason games. The Bills have been resting their stars - Milano, Miller, Bernard, Cooper, Johnson while they've been giving other guys (Williams, Epenesa and Solomon, Spector, Coleman and MVS, and Lewis) opportunities to work on their games. I know the "rest" they were giving these guys was forced rest, not true rest, but the effect is the same: the Bills have 11 games left, they're 4-2, and in the coming weeks they'll be putting their real starting lineup on the field for the first time.  You can add Oliver and Cook to the list, too. 

 

The real season is about to start. 

NFL ratings are indicating that even more people are watching. Perhaps your problem is the overexposure caused by so many games available. The Bills/Jets game was unusually sloppy but very entertaining because it meant so much to both teams. I disagree about questioning the roster construction because the Diggs trade was necessary and we didn’t actually know how the receiving corps would work out. The fact that Cooper became available after 6 games because of Browns ineptitude and Beane jumped on the best fit available is genius.If you lose interest that’s fine because there are 4 or 5 young people, encouraged by fanatical family members ready to take your place. NFL football is the most insidious addiction that’s captured the collective soul of the American sports and gambling fans in history. Hopefully you can replace your sports watching preferences with something else that can keep you engaged for 31/2 hours at a time, but I doubt it.

[balln]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/saquon-barkley-fined-45-020-for-lowering-his-helmet-into-a-defender
 

Yup. 

[Matt_In_NH]

The nfl is growing still.  But I think the is saturation of nfl if you are also into the media shows all week, podcasts, social media etc.  there is as much as more than you could ever consume.  It makes Sundays a little less special in a way.  

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

It was unfortunate, but I'm not mad at it. From the initial angle they showed on TV, which I believe was the same side the official was on, it did look like he landed on Rodgers with his full weight, which is a flag. Other angles showed that it was a clean sack. It was sticky tacky, sure, but not a egregious call, IMO.

Whether the call was good or not, it's a BS rule that diminishes the game.

5 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

NFL ratings are indicating that even more people are watching. Perhaps your problem is the overexposure caused by so many games available. The Bills/Jets game was unusually sloppy but very entertaining because it meant so much to both teams. I disagree about questioning the roster construction because the Diggs trade was necessary and we didn’t actually know how the receiving corps would work out. The fact that Cooper became available after 6 games because of Browns ineptitude and Beane jumped on the best fit available is genius.If you lose interest that’s fine because there are 4 or 5 young people, encouraged by fanatical family members ready to take your place. NFL football is the most insidious addiction that’s captured the collective soul of the American sports and gambling fans in history. Hopefully you can replace your sports watching preferences with something else that can keep you engaged for 31/2 hours at a time, but I doubt it.

Go play golf. Done.

[May Day 10]

As of now, the nfl is a beast that can pretty much do no wrong and people will crawl back and ask for more.

 

I don't see a decline at any point in the foreseeable future.  

[Bills!Win!]

For me the teams just aren’t that interesting anymore. I grew up watching football in the late 90’s and 2000’s. Back then the only teams that you didn’t watch were the Bears, Browns, Cardinals, Panthers, Saints. The rest of the teams had at least something interesting to them. Today I find most teams boring other than the Bills and Lions 

[Shaw66]

On 10/18/2024 at 1:24 PM, Sweats said:

What i found for this season for the most part is that there just really aren't too many quality teams to watch this year. There just seems to be a lot of average teams and that makes for just an average watching experience.

 

Shaw, you've been around for a while.......do you remember the slugfests in the 80's and early 90's? Do you remember the quality of the players and teams? Do you remember the rivalries? Do you remember where every game felt like it meant something, and it usually did when there was a lot of pride on the line between franchises.......the House of Pain, the House of Noise, etc.

It felt like every game was well worth watching for the experience. The players had a chip on their shoulders and the rivalries alone were worth tuning in every week (San Fran vs. Dallas, Bills vs. Miami, etc.).......an era where you had the likes of Elway, Kelly, Marino, Rice, Okoye, Thomas, White, etc.

The quality of play was better. The refs didn't dictate the game and yes, the game was rougher, but guys were allowed to tackle without fear of the flag on every play.

 

It feels to me that the NFL has been "dumbed down" for this era and especially this year it has been less than average watching experience for the fans.

 

I'm a big college guy, have been for many years and i enjoy college ball tons more than i enjoy the NFL.....it used to be that i would watch every NFL game and now i only watch the Bills, but if there were more meaningful rivalries, i would watch more as the watching experience would mean more.

 

As it stands now, there is no rivalry outside of the Bills that even warrants my interest.

Maybe we just don't remember accurately, but I do think the game has gotten less interesting. It was simpler, easier to understand in the 80s. Big hits, teams that were known commodities, etc.  

 

I really appreciate the comments people have made here. Most importantly, I think it's the old guys like me who are complaining, and the NFL doesn't care about us.  We aren't buying beer or cars, just medication. So, the games are being produced to appeal to a different generation. 

 

However, I think your point is important. Football has been, by far, the best TV sport ever invented, but I think the same thing may be happening to football as happened to baseball. In baseball, the teams figured out the best way to win games was to hit homers, regardless of how many times players struck out trying. What that meant is that the game evolved to maximize winning, but the evolution went in a direction that made the game a less interesting TV product.  I think the NFL may have thie same problem: The thing that coaches are figuring out to maximize winning are making the game less watchable. Add to that the rule changes to reduce injury, like the new hip-drop tackle rule that is necessary, make the game, and officiating the game, baffling. 

 

When teams played straight man to man with occasional double teams or straight zone coverage, when they lined up in identifiable ways (3-4 or 4-3 on defense and more standard formations on offense) it was easier to understand what was happening on the field. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their comments. 

[BillsPride12]

7 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

For me the teams just aren’t that interesting anymore. I grew up watching football in the late 90’s and 2000’s. Back then the only teams that you didn’t watch were the Bears, Browns, Cardinals, Panthers, Saints. The rest of the teams had at least something interesting to them. Today I find most teams boring other than the Bills and Lions 

That's one thing the modern NFL is severely lacking in my opinion.  The badass teams with the wild larger than life personalities.  The 85 Bears, the 90s Bills and Cowboys teams.  You can go back even further to the 70s Steelers and Raiders teams.  There were some awesome characters in the NFL in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

Look at the Chiefs who are the big dynasty team in the NFL right now.  What's the most exciting thing about them off the field...what fancy restaurant or club Travis Kelce spent the weekend with Taylor Swift at?  

[Shaw66]

On 10/18/2024 at 1:05 PM, RiotAct said:

just curious @Shaw66 - in your 2nd paragraph, what digital manipulations are you referring to?

 

I know they (Amazon/TNF) have some snazzy “overlay” graphics when going to commercial break, but I don’t think that’s what you were talking about 

I commented about this  in response to someone else. They take the video output from the cameras and then digitally zoom in to fill the screen with most of the players in the formation.  That means that at the snap, you sometimes cannot see all 11 players.  That makes it harder to understand what the teams are doing. And their closeups on the players are tighter, too. It creates some visual overload, so far as I'm concerned. I suppose that younger viewers, video game players, are used to these more intense visual presentations. 

 

Again, I know I don't like it, and the NFL probably knows I don't like it. But the NFL doesn't care, because I'm no longer in their target demographic. 

[stinky finger]

Less is more. Eliminate Thursday night. 

 

It ain't what it used to be. Like everything else I guess.

[SoMAn]

On 10/18/2024 at 2:31 PM, MikePJ76 said:

I think a little of that is also the amount of domes in the league and how they all kind of look the same.  When you tune into a Dallas game it looks basically like a vikings/rams/chargers/raiders game.

 

I miss the old boring stadiums named after world war II related events/people.  Playing games outside on real grass always is better imo and looks awesome on TV.  I loathe domes in the NFL and I dislike them even more in MLB.  

 

there was something appealing about watching a skins-cowboys game at RFK with madden and summerall.

 

thankfully Buffalo, Chicago, Cleveland Green Bay and new england haven't built domed stadiums.

Yeah, this boomer liked the vintage look too, but always hated the multi-use circular stadiums when the NFL teams had to play over baseball diamond infields in Sept and October. 

[BillsFan2313]

No

[mannc]

10 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Less is more. Eliminate Thursday night. 

 

 

It blows my mind when I see ostensible football fans advocate for less NFL football on TV, as if three nights a week for 18 weeks per year is just too much to handle…

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

18 hours ago, Augie said:

Still no excuse. That was obvious IMO, and they should have huddled up and gotten it right. Gravity applies to everybody.  Even the QB says it was silly, so I feel pretty confident in my feelings on this. 

And if #17 gets a shoulder injury from this exact sack?  Bills fans would be losing their minds and calling for the defensive player to be drawn and quartered. They’re going to go all out to protect quarterbacks because at the end of the day, it’s good for the game, and a relatively meaningless play that ends a team’s season isn’t. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 10/18/2024 at 2:58 PM, Ned Flanders said:

I get your points, but the TV numbers don't say the NFL is declining, in fact it's more popular than it's ever been.  

 

I'm in my late 60s and I pine for the "good old days" but the information that's available in real time blows away what was available to us just 20 years ago.  40 years ago, I would have learned on the local nightly news that the Bills had traded for Amari Cooper...today, I'm flooded with information seconds after it happened.  And good luck getting highlights when you want them...I remember watching Howard Cosell's MNF halftime highlights in vain, waiting for a Bills sighting, only to have to wait until "This Week in Pro Football" on Saturday to see any Bills highlights...or in most cases, "lowlights."

 

I get the oversaturation, I miss Charlie Jones, Curt Gowdy, and Al DeRogatis, and loath the often times endless commercials, but the product on the field and the television production has never been better.

 

Now get off my lawn!

This. Some poster in here actually felt that standard SD hockey broadcasts were superior 😂 … maybe, if you don’t actually like being able to see the puck. It’s the reason why Fox came up with the glowing puck effect 

[Dillenger4]

On 10/18/2024 at 12:16 PM, MikePJ76 said:

My humble opinion.

 

The old guard of coaches who demanded excellence are now completely out of the game.  The only one left is Reid but he is still the next wave of those old coaches.  I think this matters.  

 

Also the game is played more like College football than ever before and it is just not as good.  Making WR the most important guys on teams has not been great for the quality of the sport.

 

It does not draw the numbers but I have enjoyed Baseball way more recently, probably because I am a Yankees fan and they have been successful but haven't won a championship yet (fingers crossed) and watching Aaron Judge every night for 6 months is pretty amazing.  He is like watching Allen only he is better at his sport.

 

just my two cents.  I look forward to the insults and hundreds of thumbs down.

THE Dodgers will smoke your Yanks buddy. Just sayyyiiiinnnn!

But honestly, your Yanks do look good. I hope for a Dodgers vs Yankees WS!