Cleveland Browns building a new dome stadium

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:35 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Huh? Pegula is paying for everything that isn’t paid for by the state/county. Now, it’s your expectation that he NOT get his money back on ticket sales? Really? Interesting. 

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Taxpayers are responsible for 850 million and the Bills were originally responsible for 600 million before the overruns.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:48 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Taxpayers are responsible for 850 million and the Bills were originally responsible for 600 million before the overruns.

 

 

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And now the Bills portion has grown significantly. Sounds to me like the County/State wrote a very, very good contract. There are many such deals in which the savings or overages are split between the two partners. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:51 PM, SoCal Deek said:

And now the Bills portion has grown significantly. Sounds to me like the County/State wrote a very, very good contract. There are many such deals in which the savings or overages are split between the two partners. 

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The overruns are being loaned to the Bills, paid back over a long period.

[SoCal Deek]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:54 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

The overruns are being loaned to the Bills, paid back over a long period.

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Huh? You do realize that means the Bills are paying for the overruns, right? 

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:58 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Huh? You do realize that means the Bills are paying for the overruns, right? 

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What’s the point? Isn’t 850million enough taxpayer funding with another huge amount in loans to the Bills. My point was about not having a retractable dome where fans and corporate donors were not given input. Do you prefer an open air stadium for almost 21/2 billion. Cleveland on the other side of the Lake is opting in favor of a retractable dome, why not us?

[SoCal Deek]

  On 3/21/2025 at 10:11 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

What’s the point? Isn’t 850million enough taxpayer funding with another huge amount in loans to the Bills. My point was about not having a retractable dome where fans and corporate donors were not given input. Do you prefer an open air stadium for almost 21/2 billion. Cleveland on the other side of the Lake is opting in favor of a retractable dome, why not us?

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Again….now what? So now you think someone is over charging for the construction? Then your REAL complaint should be with Turner Construction….no? 

[Pecker]

Bills should have gotten a fix price contract

[SoCal Deek]

  On 3/21/2025 at 10:18 PM, Pecker said:

Bills should have gotten a fix price contract

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The term is a Guaranteed Max Price (GMP) contract. I’m not sure that they didn’t. But, even a GMP doesn’t protect the Owner from increased costs due to ‘unforeseen circumstances’, or Owner directed changes. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 10:13 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Again….now what? So now you think someone is over charging for the construction? Then your REAL complaint should be with Turner Construction….no? 

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The original post was about a retractable dome and how it would have been better for our first new stadium in over 45 years. Forget that we could have had a retractable dome for the same amount. The costs and who’s responsible is something that was brought into the conversation. That’s it.

[Einstein]

  On 3/21/2025 at 10:21 PM, SoCal Deek said:

The term is a Guaranteed Max Price (GMP) contract. I’m not sure that they didn’t. But, even a GMP doesn’t protect the Owner from increased costs due to ‘unforeseen circumstances’, or Owner directed changes. 

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I haven't read the full thread so perhaps you've already answered this, but is the sheer mass of overruns in this project unusual?

I understand overruns are normal, but this seems to be a drastically high number of overrun.

If I was Terry i'd be pissed at whoever estimated the original cost.

[Pecker]

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:05 PM, Einstein said:

I haven't read the full thread so perhaps you've already answered this, but is the sheer mass of overruns in this project unusual?

I understand overruns are normal, but this seems to be a drastically high number of overrun.

If I was Terry i'd be pissed at whoever estimated the original cost.

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We’ve had 30-40% inflation the last 4-5 years.  This project was bid around the beginning of that time.  
 

concrete steel copper lumber oil labor, all way up over that period

[QCity]

  On 3/21/2025 at 10:49 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

The original post was about a retractable dome and how it would have been better for our first new stadium in over 45 years. Forget that we could have had a retractable dome for the same amount. The costs and who’s responsible is something that was brought into the conversation. That’s it.

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It's hard to take anyone advocating for a retractable roof seriously. They look terrible when closed and they do basically nothing when open (if they are ever open). It's like getting the absolute worst of both options. They were a trend 2 decades ago but that mistake isn't going to be repeated.

 

 

[DrBob806]

  On 10/18/2024 at 12:16 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

The current site is a nightmare. There is no parking. It's a very bad downtown location. Very difficult to walk to and you are walking over an interstate. Almost nothing around the stadium area. 

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So you've never been to the Flats? Tons of parking & tailgating. Cleveland is a great tailgate scene & their fans are awesome, despite being depressed about their team.

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:08 PM, QCity said:

 

It's hard to take anyone advocating for a retractable roof seriously. They look terrible when closed and they do basically nothing when open (if they are ever open). It's like getting the absolute worst of both options. They were a trend 2 decades ago but that mistake isn't going to be repeated.

 

 

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  On 3/21/2025 at 11:08 PM, QCity said:

 

It's hard to take anyone advocating for a retractable roof seriously. They look terrible when closed and they do basically nothing when open (if they are ever open). It's like getting the absolute worst of both options. They were a trend 2 decades ago but that mistake isn't going to be repeated.

 

 

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That’s right 2 decades ago, what was I thinking. SOFI in LA, Jerry’s place in Dallas and the Vegas state of the art Stadium. that are the envy of every fanbase. Perhaps you just love the idea of shoveling snow or drinking yourself into oblivion in order to keep from freezing to death in single digits. Don’t take me seriously just because every new northern stadium will have a dome including Cleveland, who got a new stadium this century.

[BarleyNY]

  On 3/21/2025 at 6:49 PM, djp14150 said:

They could had been a host for a World Cup game

 

if Buffalo was generally larger where they could host things like final 4s, political conventions, college bowl game, large concerts then the events pay for the roof.

 

Cleveland is larger where it has the hotel space to host these events ( but thus not being downtown/ disjoint from hotels will hurt)

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It will be right by the airport and IX Convention Center. Plenty of hotel space in that area. 

[Buffalo716]

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:48 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Taxpayers are responsible for 850 million and the Bills were originally responsible for 600 million before the overruns.

 

 

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Shhhh 

 

Don't let anybody tell you that Ralph Wilson stadium was also built by New York State taxpayer dollars 

 

That set of precedent of course Terry pagula was not trying to pony up 75% when the state basically built the last one

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:52 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

 

That’s right 2 decades ago, what was I thinking. SOFI in LA, Jerry’s place in Dallas and the Vegas state of the art Stadium. that are the envy of every fanbase. Perhaps you just love the idea of shoveling snow or drinking yourself into oblivion in order to keep from freezing to death in single digits. Don’t take me seriously just because every new northern stadium will have a dome including Cleveland, who got a new stadium this century.

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If you take division one college football and the NFL most stadiums above the Mason-Dixon line are not Domes lol

 

 my father had season tickets the very first year at the Ralph and the one thing I never want to see is a dome

[Einstein]

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:08 PM, Pecker said:

We’ve had 30-40% inflation the last 4-5 years.  This project was bid around the beginning of that time.  
 

concrete steel copper lumber oil labor, all way up over that period

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If inflation is the culprit, why aren't the other stadiums that are under construction seeing the same overruns?

The Titans stadium, announced at around the same time as ours and also currently under construction, has a current cost overrun of about 5%.

The A's are also building a new stadium right, in expensive Vegas. Their cost-overruns are only 17%

It sure seems like our nearly 40% cost overrun is staggeringly high compared to others.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:52 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

 

That’s right 2 decades ago, what was I thinking. SOFI in LA, Jerry’s place in Dallas and the Vegas state of the art Stadium. that are the envy of every fanbase. 

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Neither Vegas or LA have retractable roofs. 

[djp14150]

  On 3/21/2025 at 11:55 PM, BarleyNY said:

It will be right by the airport and IX Convention Center. Plenty of hotel space in that area. 

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It does have hotels but those are secondary hoteks and not the better ones and restaurants in downtown area 

[HamptonBillsfan]

  On 3/22/2025 at 12:03 AM, Buffalo716 said:

Shhhh 

 

Don't let anybody tell you that Ralph Wilson stadium was also built by New York State taxpayer dollars 

 

That set of precedent of course Terry pagula was not trying to pony up 75% when the state basically built the last one

If you take division one college football and the NFL most stadiums above the Mason-Dixon line are not Domes lol

 

 my father had season tickets the very first year at the Ralph and the one thing I never want to see is a dome

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Your preference is open air stadiums but don’t dismiss the incredible architectural advances that are defining the newest and best stadiums to enjoy the NFL experience. The Atlanta stadium opened in 2017, SOFI in LA,  the Vegas Stadium with a translucent dome and retractable sides, the Allegiant Stadium and the Arizona Cardinals Stadium.  Now Cleveland is building a dome stadium. All the new northern stadiums will be some kind of dome except for Buffalo.