Von Miller outlook implications from the Cooper trade

[T master]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Apologies for the awkward title. 
 

I love the cooper trade. It will make the games more fun to watch. Having said that I felt the Bills were going to win the AFCE without Cooper. And we we would bow out of the playoffs in the divisional round.  
 

Adding Cooper does not move the dial on those expectations.  
 

But I don’t think Beane would make this trade unless he thought the dial will be moved.  And the main thing I see they could move this dial is a return to 2022 form for Von Miller after he returns from his suspension. That plus cooper definitely would up my expectations.  

 

Your forgetting another very important piece of the puzzle ---- If Millano comes back and gets back to his old self before the play offs that would be a huge boost to the D then you have Ed, Tarron, if they can stay healthy, the 1 concern i have is Hamlin .

 

I'm hoping that they can get the rookie up to speed before the play offs & possibly bring Mika back in some capacity even if it is as a safety/veteran coach type depth player to help the young guys out, he knows the ropes and can be helpful no matter his capacity . 

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

Your forgetting another very important piece of the puzzle ---- If Millano comes back and gets back to his old self before the play offs that would be a huge boost to the D then you have Ed, Tarron, if they can stay healthy, the 1 concern i have is Hamlin .

 

I'm hoping that they can get the rookie up to speed before the play offs & possibly bring Mika back in some capacity even if it is as a safety/veteran coach type depth player to help the young guys out, he knows the ropes and can be helpful no matter his capacity . 

Milano  playing at a high level after so long of the field seems less likely to me.  I expected Oliver and Johnson to play in my initial assessment the Bills would not make a deep playoff run.   But I do think that the there is something that makes the Bills think a 11 game rental player is worth a third round pick, at this time. 

[JoPoy88]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

Apologies for the awkward title. 
 

I love the cooper trade. It will make the games more fun to watch. Having said that I felt the Bills were going to win the AFCE without Cooper. And we we would bow out of the playoffs in the divisional round.  
 

Adding Cooper does not move the dial on those expectations.  
 

But I don’t think Beane would make this trade unless he thought the dial will be moved.  And the main thing I see they could move this dial is a return to 2022 form for Von Miller after he returns from his suspension. That plus cooper definitely would up my expectations.  

define the “dial” and the parameters for moving it

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Process said:

If fully healthy this team is absolutely a SB contender. If you don't believe that I don't know what to tell you. 

With a motivated Cooper and a load managed / rested (suspended) Von,  this team could do some serious damage....especially when Milano returns.

[T master]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Milano  playing at a high level after so long of the field seems less likely to me.  I expected Oliver and Johnson to play in my initial assessment the Bills would not make a deep playoff run.   But I do think that the there is something that makes the Bills think a 11 game rental player is worth a third round pick, at this time. 

 

After the loss of Diggs no one ever stepped up as the guy that Josh could depend on no matter what except maybe Shakir, that being said it will take a bit of time for Josh and Cooper to develop some chemistry .

 

The 1 thing that Josh will have though is Coopers history, he has already established with other lessor QB's that he is that guy so maybe the time it takes to develop that chemistry & trust between them won't take as long .

 

Brady also needs to use the weapons he has at his disposal ! The Jets game was the first TD for Knox & he only had 3 targets prior to that, i'm sorry but that is just wrong ! Knox has proven him self to be a dependable pass catcher before Kincaid came to be a Bill . Sure he's not going to get as many targets now but up until the last game it's like he was forgotten about as another weapon for Josh .

 

Ty Johnson is another one, last season he proved how good a player he was for this team and his use has been spotty at best . Sure Davis showed what he can do last game but he's getting the lions share of play after Cook, why not use both Ty & Davis keep the opponent guessing .

 

The Bills have the weapons, it's just putting them in a scheme where Josh can maximize all of their talents because they are going to need all of those weapons to dethrone Mahomes and go to the big show !! Brady said this is Joshes offense he needs to build it around him well we know Josh has utilized those guys talents in the past so like they said at the beginning of the year make it so .

 

EVERY BODY EATS !!!  

 

 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, T master said:

After the loss of Diggs no one ever stepped up as the guy that Josh could depend on no matter what except maybe Shakir, that being said it will take a bit of time for Josh and Cooper to develop some chemistry .

we have cooper for 11 games plus playoffs. thats not much time, unless you think it really changes how deep the team can go in the playoffs.  

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, Chaos said:

Apologies for the awkward title. 
 

I love the cooper trade. It will make the games more fun to watch. Having said that I felt the Bills were going to win the AFCE without Cooper. And we we would bow out of the playoffs in the divisional round.  
 

Adding Cooper does not move the dial on those expectations.  
 

But I don’t think Beane would make this trade unless he thought the dial will be moved.  And the main thing I see they could move this dial is a return to 2022 form for Von Miller after he returns from his suspension. That plus cooper definitely would up my expectations.  

sorry for actually asking you to explain yourself beyond vagaries and cliches.

[T master]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

we have cooper for 11 games plus playoffs. thats not much time, unless you think it really changes how deep the team can go in the playoffs.  

 

Cooper just from what he has proven as a WR during his time in the NFL with his stats and what he has accomplished comes in and moves to the head of the isle as the number 1 WR in the room which after Shakir there wasn't any one else really .

 

There was no one else to take the pressure away from Shakir or for that matter any of the other WR's . The past 2 games prior to the Jets they took away Shakir, Kincaid, Samuel isn't at all the threat i thought he was going to be Coleman is still coming up but not there yet and Hollins isn't that guy they are for the most part very good but none elite per say .

 

I'm not sure that Cooper could be elite any more but he was and at the very least he has that history that he has proven what he can do so I;m hoping he has enough left to help out the team & give Josh 1 more player that the other teams have to worry about . 

 

And for $870k i'll go with it for now until someone else proves to be that guy ...

[strive_for_five_guy]

56 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

define the “dial” and the parameters for moving it

I think the OP is saying that Beane wouldn’t have made this move for Cooper if we weren’t closer to being SB bound than the OP believes, and that Beane must know that Von is closer to his 2022 form than Von showed in the first four games this season.  And if Von truly is at his 2022 form, then the OP’s original assessment of where this team was without Cooper was flawed to begin with.

 

That’s my interpretation.

[Special K]

Anyone else find it funny that the league suspended Miller right when the Bills were going to be playing some of their toughest opponents on the road??

 

I mean, why couldn't they have suspended him now for the next 4 games....missing him in the last 3 games has been much more impactful to the Bills than if they didn't have him in the next 4.

 

Seems like odd timing to me.

[BigDingus]

5 hours ago, Process said:

If fully healthy this team is absolutely a SB contender. If you don't believe that I don't know what to tell you. 

 

I think the defense, Sean McDermott's coaching issues, and lack of explosiveness on offense makes us more of paper tigers come playoff time.

 

We could hang with teams like the Chiefs, but more physical teams like the Ravens would run right over us out with or without Cooper & healthy defensive players.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

we have cooper for 11 games plus playoffs. thats not much time, unless you think it really changes how deep the team can go in the playoffs.  

how long did it take for Cooper and Flacco to develop chemistry last season?

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

how long did it take for Cooper and Flacco to develop chemistry last season?

One week. By their second game together Cooper was going off.  Flacco comes in week 12. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CoopAm00/gamelog/2023/

Edited October 17 by Jauronimo

[philholbroo]

This team can definitely win the super bowl, it will come down to coaching/ game planning.

Edited October 17 by philholbroo

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

After the loss of Diggs no one ever stepped up as the guy that Josh could depend on no matter what except maybe Shakir, that being said it will take a bit of time for Josh and Cooper to develop some chemistry .

 

The 1 thing that Josh will have though is Coopers history, he has already established with other lessor QB's that he is that guy so maybe the time it takes to develop that chemistry & trust between them won't take as long .

 

Brady also needs to use the weapons he has at his disposal ! The Jets game was the first TD for Knox & he only had 3 targets prior to that, i'm sorry but that is just wrong ! Knox has proven him self to be a dependable pass catcher before Kincaid came to be a Bill . Sure he's not going to get as many targets now but up until the last game it's like he was forgotten about as another weapon for Josh .

 

Ty Johnson is another one, last season he proved how good a player he was for this team and his use has been spotty at best . Sure Davis showed what he can do last game but he's getting the lions share of play after Cook, why not use both Ty & Davis keep the opponent guessing .

 

The Bills have the weapons, it's just putting them in a scheme where Josh can maximize all of their talents because they are going to need all of those weapons to dethrone Mahomes and go to the big show !! Brady said this is Joshes offense he needs to build it around him well we know Josh has utilized those guys talents in the past so like they said at the beginning of the year make it so .

 

EVERY BODY EATS !!!  

 

 

the Amari trade kinda proves that “EVERY BODY EATS” was all BS but yeah you do you

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

the Amari trade kinda proves that “EVERY BODY EATS” was all BS but yeah you do you

Everybody eats*!

 

*individuals who cannot beat man coverage not included. 

[T master]

7 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

the Amari trade kinda proves that “EVERY BODY EATS” was all BS but yeah you do you

 

The first 3 games that's what they did some 9 different players got targets & then the 2 losses they didn't go that route only to lose, so maybe it is BS but it worked for a minute & it is better than being a offense with only a couple of players that you focus on . 

 

And your doing you ...

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, Process said:

If fully healthy this team is absolutely a SB contender. If you don't believe that I don't know what to tell you. 

Imagine if Milano, Von Miller, Oliver, Rousseau, Rasul Douglas, and Taron Johnson were all healthy come playoff time. The defense and special teams have continually let this team down every postseason, but I’m most concerned about ST. Bass looks like he’s having an existential crisis every time he lines up for the kick. Beane needs to start thinking of a backup plan FAST bc it can come up and bite them in the ass down the road. Do u know how many games are decided by 3 points? 
 

On a different note, that Amari Cooper trade has potential to be massive for this offense. It opens up so many doors just from the attention he will draw alone. I’ve been preaching on this forum about getting a top WR bc of all the draft capital next year and even suggested a 3rd rounder. I was leaning more towards Davante, but after the fact I think Cooper was the better acquisition. He’s 2 years younger I believe and is a player I think will mesh better w/ Josh’s style. 
 

The run game has been phenomenal. Ray Davis is the real deal and the fact he did it against the 2nd best defense in the league is very impressive. Cook is definitely going to lose a lot of carries. I hope they find ways to get both on the field at once. And if either are injured, u have another solid player Ty Johnson. I think we have the best RB stable in the NFL. 
 

All in all, Beane is continuing to add great talent to this team. I really don’t believe in the whole “rebuild year” crap. Buffalo has the potential to really do some damage, but like you said they need to be relatively healthy. It’s almost like we are cursed. I hope they have their seeding wrapped up and are able to rest some starters for the last game or 2. 

[sullim4]

7 hours ago, Process said:

If fully healthy this team is absolutely a SB contender. If you don't believe that I don't know what to tell you. 

 

I'm not on this train yet for two reasons - McDermott and Bass.  The former needs to prove himself capable of making sound decisions late in close games.  The later needs to get his head on straight or be replaced.

 

We all laugh but the kicker IMO is one of the most critical pieces to a playoff roster.  These games are close and it's therefore extremely important to convert PATs and make 45+ yard field goals - often in adverse January conditions.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Thats pretty optimistic.  They have to win 8 of 11.   I understand the schedule is weak, but you are talking about a broken down 40 yr old QB behind a bottom 10 OL and a team so dysfunctional they fired the coach after 5 games.. 

 

And Aaron Rodgers is not Tom Brady. He doesn't possess that drive. He is a man baby who points fingers at everyone but himself. Even his press conference at the end on Monday was embarrassing. I don't see any way he holds that team together to win 8 of 11. He is part of the problem in Jersey not part of the solution.

For me this takes the Bills from "no shot" at a Superbowl this year to "outside chance." There are still at least six teams I'd have above them in the pecking order, but if the Cooper can get up to speed and give the Bills some semblance of a vertical passing game back then on their day I think they can beat any team.