Alphadawg7 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 1 hour ago, 90sBills said: He was drafted in the 2nd round. Kelce in the 3rd. Mahomes was available when we drafted. Butker was signed off of Carolina’s ps. Identifying great talent is the issue not draft position. I know, which is why I said it happens, but the fact remains it is harder when you are picking people who have more developing to do to reach that kind of potential. I mean there is a reason the bust rates go up with as you move deeper into the draft. So lets not pretend its just easy to find a Chris Jones in the 2nd...if so, there wouldn't be just one of him. Quote
nedboy7 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 It would be interesting to see an analysis of KC drafts for the past 5 years. And see if they really draft better Quote
Success Posted October 17 Posted October 17 5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: It would be interesting to see an analysis of KC drafts for the past 5 years. And see if they really draft better They probably do overall. Getting McDuffie really tipped the scales - especially w/ Elam being a back-up these days. Beane has done alright, though. More hits than misses, and he has excelled in the later rounds. Quote
Yobogoya! Posted October 17 Posted October 17 12 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: It would be interesting to see an analysis of KC drafts for the past 5 years. And see if they really draft better In general I don’t think their drafts are littered with “better” overall players, but they’ve found multiple “blue chip” players that are capable of elevating the team around them — and we, for the most part, haven’t. They’ve got Mahomes, Kelce, Jones, McDuffie — if you even limit it to just those four, that’s four all-pro level players who instantly elevate both sides of the ball. The entire team “looks” better when you’ve got a couple of those types of players at multiple position groups. We’ve drafted Josh Allen. Tre and Milano could have been cornerstones if they’d have stayed healthy. Taron Johnson probably counts. We find plenty of good players, it’s the lack of top shelf talent where we fall short. 1 Quote
90sBills Posted October 17 Posted October 17 33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I know, which is why I said it happens, but the fact remains it is harder when you are picking people who have more developing to do to reach that kind of potential. I mean there is a reason the bust rates go up with as you move deeper into the draft. So lets not pretend its just easy to find a Chris Jones in the 2nd...if so, there wouldn't be just one of him. I didn’t say a Chris Jones was easy to find. I was contesting your assertion that a team has to draft high to get a Chris Jones. That’s simply not the case. One more difference that I see between the two teams is better players development with KC. In the end that may be the big difference. Quote
Allen2Moulds Posted October 17 Author Posted October 17 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Well if we swing for Crosby or Garrett I am pretty sure it would be so whoever they got stayed a while too...so that swing for the fence move would be about more than just 1 season, it would be a big move moving forward too. I would go get either of those guys myself, they are difference making players. Rams won the SB because the D ended the game and Bengals were only it because their D shut down Mahomes the 2nd half of the AFCCG. Chiefs won the SB last year because Jones blew a play up that Aiyuk was uncovered in the endzone, a game they were only in because Chris Jones blew up Dion against us on a would go ahead TD to Shakir. The fundamental lack of understanding on this board for just how important play makers are on Defense when you get into the playoffs and Super Bowl is wild. If you could draft Crosby or Garrett with our first round pick next year, 100% of all teams would make that selection. So all you are doing is paying an extra first to insure that the first round pick produces an elite player...considering 50% of first rounders bust anyways, that is an equal trade off. 2 firsts for a top of the league defensive difference maker. Its a no brainer if it can be done, especially considering our first are going to be almost 2nd's anyway. Thank you. I was honestly surprised by most of the responses I was getting, but it did not change my opinion. You of course can express it more eloquently than I can. It's like saying, would you trade Rosseau and Elam for Crosby or Garrett. I don't think anyone in their right mind says no. I'll take it one step further, how about Rosseau and Kincaid? That's still a resounding yes to me. 1 Quote
Success Posted October 17 Posted October 17 17 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said: In general I don’t think their drafts are littered with “better” overall players, but they’ve found multiple “blue chip” players that are capable of elevating the team around them — and we, for the most part, haven’t. They’ve got Mahomes, Kelce, Jones, McDuffie — if you even limit it to just those four, that’s four all-pro level players who instantly elevate both sides of the ball. The entire team “looks” better when you’ve got a couple of those types of players at multiple position groups. We’ve drafted Josh Allen. Tre and Milano could have been cornerstones if they’d have stayed healthy. Taron Johnson probably counts. We find plenty of good players, it’s the lack of top shelf talent where we fall short. Bernard is getting close, and Groot is also a step away from being that. Possibly Kincaid, too, though this season has been underwhelming so far. Quote
Charles Romes Posted October 17 Posted October 17 In 21-23 we had 1 or 2 max contract defenders essentially or literally not on the field in the playoffs. Chiefs had one foundational injury in their whole run-losing their LT before the TB Super Bowl, and we saw what happened. Quote
Billsatlastin2018 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 On 10/16/2024 at 3:19 PM, Blackbeard said: We're rebuilding a tad. I'd swing for the fences in a year we really think we can win a SB. When you have #17, EVERY single year is one you can win the SB! And every year you don’t is a year you’ve wasted 17s talent! Quote
Yobogoya! Posted October 17 Posted October 17 7 minutes ago, Success said: Bernard is getting close, and Groot is also a step away from being that. Possibly Kincaid, too, though this season has been underwhelming so far. Groot’s been “a step away” for three seasons now. He’s far from a liability, but he’s not a consistent threat and I’m unsure if he ever will be. Bernard has star power, but he’s already been banged up quite a bit in his young career. Kincaid is like.. I don’t even know if it’s him or us at this point. Guy has been polished and shown great hands, but we never seem to build a game plan around him. A young stud at TE should be capable of dominating multiple games if we use him right. 1 Quote
mjt328 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 On 10/16/2024 at 3:16 PM, notpolian said: We tried the "we are just one player away" move with Von Miller. Figure out how to draft a game changer DL. The difference between the Bills and KC is Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, Jones and Spagnolo. Sorry but those 3 players and 2 coaches are much better than ours. I know people will flame about Allen but that's my opinion. The Von Miller "one player away" plan failed, mostly because of a torn ACL. I agree that we need to draft a stud player on the D-Line, and that Brandon Beane has not been able to find enough premium difference makers. At the same time, I don't think the difference between Kansas City and Buffalo is big... when both teams are at full strength. The difference between Patrick Mahomes being the NFL's top QB and Josh Allen lagging behind him at #2... is Andy Reid's offensive genius. Over the last four years, they have been almost neck/neck statistically. If the Bills could land a really good OC, I'm confident Allen would jump ahead. As a head coach though, I'm not sure Reid is much better than Sean McDermott. Anyone who says otherwise probably wasn't watching the NFL before 2019. Reid was that guy who went 21 YEARS before winning his first championship, constantly falling short in the playoffs. Prior to Mahomes being drafted, he was the literal definition of being unable to get over the hump. Spagnolo's history as a DC is pretty up and down. People tend to forget his time with the Rams, his second stint with the Giants, or even his first few seasons with the Chiefs. As a defensive mind, McDermott has a more consistent track-record and seems to get more out of the talent he's been given. I do agree the Chiefs defense has surpassed ours over the last 2 seasons, but that is mostly talent/age/injury related. Kansas City's defense carried that Super Bowl run last year. But before that, they were just as much of a liability in the postseason. We definitely don't have a defensive player on the level of Chris Jones. Most teams don't. Not sure Travis Kelce is worth mentioning anymore. I don't think the slow start is a fluke. His best days are behind him. 1 Quote
Augie Posted October 17 Posted October 17 Did we learn nothing from The Von Miller Experiment? You can’t take big swings and MISS, and not face the wrath of TBD. 😂 Honestly, Von getting hurt was a bigger event than a lot of the things that have happened since then that influenced games. People are always calling to go all in, WIN NOW, but it can kick you where you don’t want to be kicked, too. Let’s get Von off the books before we double down. 1 Quote
extrahammer Posted October 17 Posted October 17 I think pass rush was the biggest weakness we had when compared against the Chiefs and we've sort of addressed it with Von, but not seriously IMO bc he could retire any day now if we're being real. Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 1 hour ago, 90sBills said: I didn’t say a Chris Jones was easy to find. I was contesting your assertion that a team has to draft high to get a Chris Jones. That’s simply not the case. One more difference that I see between the two teams is better players development with KC. In the end that may be the big difference. But that’s just it, I never said that. I said it’s harder when you pick late, and said it does happen, but it’s just harder. Quote
nedboy7 Posted October 17 Posted October 17 2 hours ago, Yobogoya! said: In general I don’t think their drafts are littered with “better” overall players, but they’ve found multiple “blue chip” players that are capable of elevating the team around them — and we, for the most part, haven’t. They’ve got Mahomes, Kelce, Jones, McDuffie — if you even limit it to just those four, that’s four all-pro level players who instantly elevate both sides of the ball. The entire team “looks” better when you’ve got a couple of those types of players at multiple position groups. We’ve drafted Josh Allen. Tre and Milano could have been cornerstones if they’d have stayed healthy. Taron Johnson probably counts. We find plenty of good players, it’s the lack of top shelf talent where we fall short. To be fair looks like we got the injury issue to derail the argument. Perhaps more luck than anything else. TJ is considered the top nickel by many and Milano was a top LB. His injury was not due to being undersized either. Tre was a All-pro CB. We have freak bad luck. Quote
90sBills Posted October 17 Posted October 17 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: But that’s just it, I never said that. I said it’s harder when you pick late, and said it does happen, but it’s just harder. Well yeah it’s harder but it’s obviously possible. That’s what separates a great organization from the good ones. That ability to identify talent. Before Chris Jones became hof trajectory Chris Jones he was a draft prospect that slid to the 2nd round. Same with Kelce who slid to the 3rd round. There are opportunities on these type of players in every draft class. The ability to identify and develop them to their fullest potential is what separates these organizations. The Bills staff is behind KC staff in this area. Quote
SirAndrew Posted October 18 Posted October 18 Meh, I don’t think pass rushers move the needle as much these days. It’s nice to have that guy, but I wouldn’t go crazy trying to find him. That’s why I’ve never been a huge fan of our constant d line draft choices. Hutchinson is a phenomenal player in Detroit, but he did nothing in the NFCC against SF last year. Great offensive coordinators know how to neutralize those guys in this era. Quote
VW82 Posted October 18 Posted October 18 I'd like to see us with all our pass rushers healthy and playing well late in the season. Our pass rush is underrated imo. The bigger issue is our size and scheme defending bigger teams. 1 Quote
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 18 Posted October 18 On 10/16/2024 at 3:16 PM, BuffaloBillyG said: Actually, the difference is a certain man who looks like a giant walrus. I like that u put giant walrus. He’s so fat that he’s fatter than a regular sized one Quote
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