Where's Cole Bishop?

[NickelCity]

Bishop made me a bit uneasy when we drafted him. I was worried about his learning curve especially in coverage (I thought he was at his best coming downhill in college). The Texans game didn't help, and his inability to displace Hamlin also isn't helping.

 

Next off-season/training camp is going to be critical for him.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

Bishop made me a bit uneasy when we drafted him. I was worried about his learning curve especially in coverage (I thought he was at his best coming downhill in college). The Texans game didn't help, and his inability to displace Hamlin also isn't helping.

 

Next off-season/training camp is going to be critical for him.

 

That is the other point of it. He is really a Rapp alternative more than a Hamlin alternative for exactly the reason you state. I think he wants to play downhill and in the box.

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, BananaB said:

 

Well in the playoffs when Hamlin is physically outmatched like you said he is most games, what options do we have?Plug Bishop in part way through a game and see if watching from the bench the whole season helped him. What’s the point of moving forward if we know the outcome?  
 

I’m not sure how Bishop will handle more time, just like your not. He could be a player that learns quick from his mistakes, but then again maybe he isn’t.  We don’t know unless you give him some more time and see.  If it’s still not working a few games down the road you can always go back to Hamlin. People got this guy pegged as a player who can’t help us based off one ***** start.  I want to see him now in hopes that he’ll make an impact by playoffs. There is nothing you can argue that will change my mind.  

 

I don't think that Bishop playing now makes any difference to the options we do or don't have in the post season. And I don't have him pegged as a player who can't help us. I have him pegged as a player who isn't ready and doesn't deserve to start. Do I think Hamlin will be physically overmatched in the playoffs? Yep. But that is a less bad option than a guy that is mentally overmatched. You can do things schmeatically to protect a physically overmatched player. Not much you can do when the guy is just misdiagnosing plays and playing his repsonsibility incorrectly. Especially at the safety position.

[DJB]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is the other point of it. He is really a Rapp alternative more than a Hamlin alternative for exactly the reason you state. I think he wants to play downhill and in the box.

Agreed on this 100%. He’s definitely more of an in box safety and I assumed he would play that position with Edwards as the free. 
 

Turns out I was wrong on both and those two were backups 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think that Bishop playing now makes any difference to the options we do or don't have in the post season. And I don't have him pegged as a player who can't help us. I have him pegged as a player who isn't ready and doesn't deserve to start. Do I think Hamlin will be physically overmatched in the playoffs? Yep. But that is a less bad option than a guy that is mentally overmatched. You can do things schmeatically to protect a physically overmatched player. Not much you can do when the guy is just misdiagnosing plays and playing his repsonsibility incorrectly. Especially at the safety position.

Given that we already have the division pretty much rapped up and have little chance at catching the Chiefs.  Wouldn't now be the perfect time to give him as many reps as possible to get the "mental" side of things down going into the playoffs?  If he's still struggling than just throw Damar back in there.

[ganesh]

38 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Given that we already have the division pretty much rapped up and have little chance at catching the Chiefs.  Wouldn't now be the perfect time to give him as many reps as possible to get the "mental" side of things down going into the playoffs?  If he's still struggling than just throw Damar back in there.

If we beat the Chiefs on Sunday, then we will only be half a game behind the Chiefs and would require them to lose one more game (assuming we win rest of our games).  Anything is possible.

[BananaB]

There is a sense that we shouldn’t make any change or try something different because we are winning. That same

mindset is why for a few years Bills carried basically the same roster and ultimately never met their final goal. Won a lot of games but should have dealt with a weakness before rather then after. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Given that we already have the division pretty much rapped up and have little chance at catching the Chiefs.  Wouldn't now be the perfect time to give him as many reps as possible to get the "mental" side of things down going into the playoffs?  If he's still struggling than just throw Damar back in there.

 

I wouldnt do it until the stretch run personally. Pats - Jets - Pats if the division is done and the 1 seed is out of reach.

[SoTier]

55 minutes ago, BananaB said:

There is a sense that we shouldn’t make any change or try something different because we are winning. That same

mindset is why for a few years Bills carried basically the same roster and ultimately never met their final goal. Won a lot of games but should have dealt with a weakness before rather then after. 

 

Seriously, dude.  If Bishop were even close to playing the position as well as Hamlin, he would be playing at least occasionally.   Instead, he's riding the pine except for ST.

 

You may not value regular season wins or playoff seedings but I guarantee that that's not McDermott's -- nor any NFL HC -- mindset.   Deal with it.

[ALLinALLEN]

I didn't think it was a great use of our 2nd round pick when we made it...You need someone at a position that can start (or at least play) this year with that pick.

So it's either:

A.) he didnt develop into a starter quick enough. Due to lack of talent, or, injury set him way back.

B.) he's a development piece that we knew wouldnt start this year.

 

If it's B I would have not used the pick on that position. 

 

 

 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Given that we already have the division pretty much rapped up and have little chance at catching the Chiefs.  Wouldn't now be the perfect time to give him as many reps as possible to get the "mental" side of things down going into the playoffs?  If he's still struggling than just throw Damar back in there.

In my opinion, the fact that Bishop hasn't been getting snaps indicates his pre-snap processing is not where it needs to be yet. Getting that correct on the practice field is a precursor to getting more time in the games, and really, you don't need the games to work on that. Once he can correctly identify his responsibilities then he can get on the field more to take his game to the next level.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, ALLinALLEN said:

I didn't think it was a great use of our 2nd round pick when we made it.

 

Yeah this was my least favorite pick of the draft, and that isn't hindsight it was what I said right after draft weekend. Safety is a cerebral position more than a physical one these days, especially in McDermott's defense. A 5th rounder and a 7th rounder together gave us an elite safety tandem. So I never supported drafting a safety that high. You draft players high because of their physical skills and that isn't what we needed at the position. Worse, Beane admitted he tried to trade up for him. Really just a poor evaluation of positional value.

 

I'm not going to call Bishop a bust this early in his career, but if you're going to draft that position that high he needs to be a contributor early on. I don't even know what the path is to get him on the field moving forward because he plays Rapp's position, but we have Rapp under contract through 2026 and he has been playing pretty well overall. Very confusing resource allocation...

[gonzo1105]

Patience people. He was a late 2nd round pick who missed all of training camp. He’s going to be a really good player. 
 

People can talk about the usage of the pick as a safety but I think most on this board see Safety as a huge need in the draft and even still now. 
 

I told people for 2 months before the draft that our pick in the 2nd round was a barren wasteland of players at other need positions for us(DE, DT) and that if we wanted a difference maker on the DLine we would have to trade up.  
 

People need to go look at the other names drafted around that time and not too many of them especially at other needs are doing much of anything either 

[GaryPinC]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't care about Basketball so all that is lost on me. They actually didn't hand TB the job in camp. He battled Tyrel Dodson for is and they were hoping one emerged. Bernard won a pretty uninspiring competition and started. It's fair to assume had it gone badly they'd have flipped to Dodson quickly. They didn't have to. Bernard earned the right to stay on the field. That's always how it works.

 

As for Beane giving McDermott a warning... this shouldn't need repeating again but Beane is NOT McDermott's boss. He has zero power to warn McDermott of anything. They both report independently to Terry Pegula. 

Tyrel Dodson is JAG who was here since 2019.  For the FO to not draft and act the way they did, they knew how the formality "competition" would go.

Bernard earned it the year before and McD chose to sit on him for whatever reason.  I watched his first start and despite the mistakes it was completely obvious why the FO had faith in him; his intelligence, aggressiveness and playmaking ability quickly popped.  He was the revelation Dodson or even Edmunds was never going to be.

 

You're right about the command structure, thanks for pointing it out and my apologies.  Imagine McD getting a warning any way you want.  Not sure if it happened but if not it needs to happen:

 

-McDermott is in his eighth season, Allen his seventh.  Culture is firmly established.

-We haven't sniffed the super bowl since 13 seconds, a disaster that McD with his two timeouts to set the D, has never been fully accountable for.

 

-Our defense is stagnant and a major part of what results in our playoff losses.  Our D line has never been a dominant force when we need it.

-It doesn't seem like the defense is any better this year, perhaps it's regressed a bit.

 

Change is needed.  I would like to see McDermott himself change and tweak things to be more successful, do better to give every chance for playmakers to get on the field ASAP rather than next year.  Is his system really maximizing the talent we have?  I'm obviously not very confident it is.

 

If we can't move forward out of stagnation this year, then it's time for a new voice, leadership and direction.  McD has done a phenomenal job establishing this team but has stalled out like his defense.

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Is his system really maximizing the talent we have?  I'm obviously not very confident it is.

 

 

On defense? Yes. I am extremely confident it is.

[Flip Johnson]

If Bishop was demonstrating in practice that he was processing quickly enough and the he was the better player then he'd be on the field.

 

Hamlin is an intelligent player who understands where he is supposed to be and has a nose for the football. He is probably the slowest safety in the NFL but at least you know that.

 

Bishop played one game and gave up a free access touchdown. It's hard to predict how he might hurt you.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

In the rectory, grating cabbage? 🤔

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

Patience people. He was a late 2nd round pick who missed all of training camp. He’s going to be a really good player. 
 

People can talk about the usage of the pick as a safety but I think most on this board see Safety as a huge need in the draft and even still now. 
 

I told people for 2 months before the draft that our pick in the 2nd round was a barren wasteland of players at other need positions for us(DE, DT) and that if we wanted a difference maker on the DLine we would have to trade up.  
 

People need to go look at the other names drafted around that time and not too many of them especially at other needs are doing much of anything either 

Do you see him as a FS?  Do you see Rapp as a FS?  This is where I’m confused.  Rapp is likely our SS for the next 2 seasons (after this season).  I always saw Bishop as a SS.  Did they really plan on moving one of them and playing them side by side?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[Aussie Joe]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 I always saw Bishop as a SS.  Did they really plan on moving one of them and playing them side by side?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

This is the only explanation isn’t it … unless they had doubts about Rapp ( like 99 percent of people here) and Bishop was an expensive insurance policy if Rapp didn’t work out …

 

 

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

In my opinion, the fact that Bishop hasn't been getting snaps indicates his pre-snap processing is not where it needs to be yet. Getting that correct on the practice field is a precursor to getting more time in the games, and really, you don't need the games to work on that. Once he can correctly identify his responsibilities then he can get on the field more to take his game to the next level.

Lets not forget that Rapp is playing well this season.  He basically won the Jets game for us.  Playing behind Rapp as a rookie is not a failure in my opinion.  I don't think either Rapp or Bishop is suited for the Hamlin role in this defense.