Where's Cole Bishop?

[Special K]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m not sure why Damar Hamlin angers some Bills fans. He’s a lot like Dane Jackson. He just does his job. He isn’t losing his job at this point. Injuries or leaving in free agency is the only way he comes off the field. 

Cole Bishop will have a great opportunity to start in year 2. He will get some valuable reps towards the end of the season.

Let them develop him. They know what they’re doing.

 

They did the same with Shakir.....he didn't see the field much early on in his career, but look at him now.

 

Bishop will be a starter next season, and be an above average to great Safety in this D for years to come, IMO.

[billsherd]

I think he is still with the bills. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

History has proven we stick with these avaerage players all season leaving potential on the bench we come up short in playoffs. Like I said, it’s best for this team for him to reach his full potential now. Not 3 years down the road. We ain’t getting good play at safety, don’t you want to improve our team? Rather take a step back now and then 2 steps forward heading into playoffs.

Ok McD

I’m not sure I know the history. Should Shakir have played earlier? Yeah.

 

What is the history? Who hasn’t played that should?

 

There is no need to take a step back. 

1 hour ago, Special K said:

 

They did the same with Shakir.....he didn't see the field much early on in his career, but look at him now.

 

Bishop will be a starter next season, and be an above average to great Safety in this D for years to come, IMO.

Ok? He probably should’ve played but I wouldn’t call Shakir a top talent. There is really only Elam. 

Edited November 9 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

History has proven we stick with these avaerage players all season leaving potential on the bench we come up short in playoffs. Like I said, it’s best for this team for him to reach his full potential now. Not 3 years down the road. We ain’t getting good play at safety, don’t you want to improve our team? Rather take a step back now and then 2 steps forward heading into playoffs.

Ok McD

 

We got much worse, like game losing level, play when they started Bishop. If he'd been just a bit of position in that game that would be one thing. He made the critical mistakes that led to two touchdowns. It's okay saying "get him experience and take your lumps now" but what if he costs you another game? Then what? A third game? At what point do you say you just have to play the guys who have been better to this point. If Bishop had played well at Houston he'd have got more reps. He played really poorly, he rides the pine. It's a meritocracy. And be clear I am no fan of the guys that are starting. I think they are the worst starting safety tandem in terms of talent level in the entire NFL. Bishop is more talented but when he got a shot on the field it went really, really badly.

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m not sure I know the history. Should Shakir have played earlier? Yeah.

 

What is the history? Who hasn’t played that should?

Ok? He probably should’ve played but I wouldn’t call Shakir a top talent. There is really only Elam. 

 

Shakir played a 3rd of the snaps on offense as a 5th round rookie. People talk as though he wae never out there. The lack of production was because he couldn't run routes and kept overrunning the soft spots in zone which was understandable because he came from a gimmicky college offense that never asked him to do those things. 

 

Is there an argument they should have committed to him as a peice of their offense ealier in year 2? Yea I think there is. They were trying to force feed the 12 personnel under Dorsey and I think that limited Shakir a but from breaking out sooner.

Edited November 9 by GunnerBill

[TFBillsfan]

Nine games into the season and our 2nd round pick isn’t seeing the field and is behind Cam Lewis. That doesn’t give me a lot of confidence and could be another miss by Beane in the 2nd round. 

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m not sure I know the history. Should Shakir have played earlier? Yeah.

 

What is the history? Who hasn’t played that should?

 

There is no need to take a step back. 

Ok? He probably should’ve played but I wouldn’t call Shakir a top talent. There is really only Elam. 

And let’s talk about Elam. He’s sat because of early struggles just like Bishop. Playing Dane over him was the safe move but it did nothing to help Elam it’s why there  is still question marks about him. But despite lack of playing time Elam has stepped up in big moments. In playoffs he has more ints and passes defenced then Dane and Benford combined. Weird eh, considering he’s been nothing but ***** on but steps up in bigger games. Don’t you want a better chance to win in playoffs? Dane was getting abused on third down in 2022 but McD stuck with him. 
 

How about Dorian. Dude got shunned last year because of early struggles. At playoff time McD went to the safe move signing Klien. Against KC we never made any stops until Dorian got plugged in. He made a play on third down that was flagged for PI, Romo said it was a bad call. Then on the very next third down he made another play on third down that did force a punt. 
 

Shakirs situation was a bit different, he was getting some snaps but his best games came when Lil Dirty was injured. Let’s face it, McKenzie was not having a good season but McD stuck with him regardless of Shakir showing potential. Then the next season they gave the two vets they brought in a lot of early season snaps overlooking Shakir again. 
 

It’s better for this team if we are better in playoffs than we are in regular season. Pretty sure everyone will agree with that.  We have a 4 game lead in the division, there is no better time to try to improve your team then right now. 

[Sojourner]

18 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Nine games into the season and our 2nd round pick isn’t seeing the field and is behind Cam Lewis. That doesn’t give me a lot of confidence and could be another miss by Beane in the 2nd round. 

Doesn’t look good I agree but give him a year. Not ideal from a premium draft pick. As long as Hamlin and Rapp don’t get completely exposed it’s not a huge loss. 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, BananaB said:

And let’s talk about Elam. He’s sat because of early struggles just like Bishop. Playing Dane over him was the safe move but it did nothing to help Elam it’s why there  is still question marks about him. But despite lack of playing time Elam has stepped up in big moments. In playoffs he has more ints and passes defenced then Dane and Benford combined. Weird eh, considering he’s been nothing but ***** on but steps up in bigger games. Don’t you want a better chance to win in playoffs? Dane was getting abused on third down in 2022 but McD stuck with him. 
 

How about Dorian. Dude got shunned last year because of early struggles. At playoff time McD went to the safe move signing Klien. Against KC we never made any stops until Dorian got plugged in. He made a play on third down that was flagged for PI, Romo said it was a bad call. Then on the very next third down he made another play on third down that did force a punt. 
 

Shakirs situation was a bit different, he was getting some snaps but his best games came when Lil Dirty was injured. Let’s face it, McKenzie was not having a good season but McD stuck with him regardless of Shakir showing potential. Then the next season they gave the two vets they brought in a lot of early season snaps overlooking Shakir again. 
 

It’s better for this team if we are better in playoffs than we are in regular season. Pretty sure everyone will agree with that.  We have a 4 game lead in the division, there is no better time to try to improve your team then right now. 

 

Dorian was a spinning top. He still largely is. He'd have got abusee by KC in the playoffs.

45 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Nine games into the season and our 2nd round pick isn’t seeing the field and is behind Cam Lewis. That doesn’t give me a lot of confidence and could be another miss by Beane in the 2nd round. 

 

He isn't behind Cam Lewis.

[BananaB]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dorian was a spinning top. He still largely is. He'd have got abusee by KC in the playoffs.

 

He isn't behind Cam Lewis.

And how was Klien against KC in the playoffs. Lmfao

[Big Turk]

When he is ready to play, he will play.

 

McDermott has talked about how players earn their time on this team and that those who are out in and play well earn more time.

 

Probably the most complex position on the defense to learn under McDermott's scheme and the key to everything.

 

Cannot afford for a safety to be out of position so until he is consistent enough to be trusted he won't play unless injuries hit.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dorian was a spinning top. He still largely is. He'd have got abusee by KC in the playoffs.

 

He isn't behind Cam Lewis.

I think he is behind Cam Lewis. Bishop likely only played vs Baltimore and Houston because Taron Johnson was also out. Right now Cam Lewis is the extra DB in dime looks. Last year it was Rapp. So it seems Cam Lewis is ahead of Bishop.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

And let’s talk about Elam. He’s sat because of early struggles just like Bishop. Playing Dane over him was the safe move but it did nothing to help Elam it’s why there  is still question marks about him. But despite lack of playing time Elam has stepped up in big moments. In playoffs he has more ints and passes defenced then Dane and Benford combined. Weird eh, considering he’s been nothing but ***** on but steps up in bigger games. Don’t you want a better chance to win in playoffs? Dane was getting abused on third down in 2022 but McD stuck with him. 
 

How about Dorian. Dude got shunned last year because of early struggles. At playoff time McD went to the safe move signing Klien. Against KC we never made any stops until Dorian got plugged in. He made a play on third down that was flagged for PI, Romo said it was a bad call. Then on the very next third down he made another play on third down that did force a punt. 
 

Shakirs situation was a bit different, he was getting some snaps but his best games came when Lil Dirty was injured. Let’s face it, McKenzie was not having a good season but McD stuck with him regardless of Shakir showing potential. Then the next season they gave the two vets they brought in a lot of early season snaps overlooking Shakir again. 
 

It’s better for this team if we are better in playoffs than we are in regular season. Pretty sure everyone will agree with that.  We have a 4 game lead in the division, there is no better time to try to improve your team then right now. 

You can’t have players blowing assignments out there, doesn’t matter how talented you are.
 

It’s really pointless to keep going back and forth on this. It’s Hamlin’s job. 

[BananaB]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You can’t have players blowing assignments out there, doesn’t matter how talented you are.
 

It’s really pointless to keep going back and forth on this. It’s Hamlin’s job. 

And when we lose in the playoffs in the same fashion as usual I hope it’s McDs job

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

And when we lose in the playoffs in the same fashion as usual I hope it’s McDs job

And if they lose with Cole Bishop starting it saves McDermott’s job?

What a weird take. How about Ed Oliver and Greg Rousseau make a play in the playoffs?

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

And if they lose with Cole Bishop starting it saves McDermott’s job?

What a weird take. How about Ed Oliver and Greg Rousseau make a play in the playoffs?

We lose in the same fashion every playoffs. Defensive minded coach who’s D plays like ***** in the playoffs. Me and you are on different pages. I want this team to be at its very best in the playoffs, and if it means taking a few lumps in regular season to get there, do it.  Your ok winning with average play during regular season even if you know it ain’t gonna hold up in playoffs 

[GaryPinC]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We got much worse, like game losing level, play when they started Bishop. If he'd been just a bit of position in that game that would be one thing. He made the critical mistakes that led to two touchdowns. It's okay saying "get him experience and take your lumps now" but what if he costs you another game? Then what? A third game? At what point do you say you just have to play the guys who have been better to this point. If Bishop had played well at Houston he'd have got more reps. He played really poorly, he rides the pine. It's a meritocracy. And be clear I am no fan of the guys that are starting. I think they are the worst starting safety tandem in terms of talent level in the entire NFL. Bishop is more talented but when he got a shot on the field it went really, really badly.

 

Shakir played a 3rd of the snaps on offense as a 5th round rookie. People talk as though he wae never out there. The lack of production was because he couldn't run routes and kept overrunning the soft spots in zone which was understandable because he came from a gimmicky college offense that never asked him to do those things. 

 

Is there an argument they should have committed to him as a peice of their offense ealier in year 2? Yea I think there is. They were trying to force feed the 12 personnel under Dorsey and I think that limited Shakir a but from breaking out sooner.

Bishop got caught looking on the long TD, I didn't see what happened on the other one.  But to your points about him costing us more games, what if he does something many here including  you think unheard of and learns from his mistakes?  What if he cuts way down on his mistakes next game?  What if McD instead plugs him in for a series or two in games when we have a comfortable lead?

 

Every NFL player has to adjust to the speed of the game, secondary is particularly rough but it has to happen in a game.  Practice can't simulate it.

 

For those that say coach will put him in when he shows ready in practice, it didn't happen that way for Terrel Bernard so I don't trust the coaches.  TB did get in early 2022 but of course made mistakes and was never seen again that year.  Yet when Edmunds left they knew TB was the answer so much so they didn't draft anybody.  That implies to me he earned it in practice but the coaches still held him out.  

 

TB was a revelation when he started 2023, smart, attacking.  Everything Edmunds wasn't.  And he elevated Milano's game as well.  Would have been interesting if he and Milano could have had more chances to develop that in 2022.  

 

The other thing about giving Bishop some opportunities here and there is you challenge Rapp and Hamlin, let them know why Bishop is getting some time and how they need to pick up their play.

 

I agree with BananaB that this defense isn't good enough to survive deep in the playoffs, especially with how slow our safeties are to react with little anticipation.  We need to be doing everything we can to get better in time for that.

[BigDingus]

10 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

I mean, good job pointing out the one time they missed  

 

Also, I'd argue reaching on a raw talent that ultimately struggled with zone concepts is different from bringing a surefire safety prospect along slowly in McD's defense which asks more of its safeties. Missing camp definitely set him back. So far, there isn't much to go on other than seeing Hamlin get attacked and wondering why McD won't pull the trigger. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see the switch made during the bye, and until we see otherwise, I stand by my prediction that Bishop will be really good once he finds his sea legs in the defense.

 

You think they've only missed once? C'mon...

 

Elam has had just as much time in this defense as he ever had in his college defense, so if he can't see the field at this point, it's because he's just not good. Bishop isn't like that. I think the coaching staff likes & feels comfortable with Hamlin, and because of that they're willing to sit on Bishop.

 

But us fans always want to see the high draft picks on the field, especially when there's room to improve at those positions. I'd be happy to see him starting after the bye, but I'm not sure McDermott would do it unless he thought it was a clear upgrade.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, BananaB said:

And how was Klien against KC in the playoffs. Lmfao

 

Not good. There was no good option. I'd have made the same choice McDermott did. I'd have gone for Klein and hoped that the recognition skill and the smarts would have allowed him to call the defense effectively and make just one positional change to your lineup. The alternative was make two moves, slide Dodson into Mike and then play Dorian at Will and I think Kansas City would have just singled him out and used misdirection against him relentlessly. I'm worried they will do that next week in any event, and Dorian while still not where you'd want him to be is ahead in his development from last year.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 hours ago, BananaB said:

We lose in the same fashion every playoffs. Defensive minded coach who’s D plays like ***** in the playoffs. Me and you are on different pages. I want this team to be at its very best in the playoffs, and if it means taking a few lumps in regular season to get there, do it.  Your ok winning with average play during regular season even if you know it ain’t gonna hold up in playoffs 

Good teams do not play talented players costing them games.
 

As I said earlier, Bishop will get valuable reps later in the season.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think he is behind Cam Lewis. Bishop likely only played vs Baltimore and Houston because Taron Johnson was also out. Right now Cam Lewis is the extra DB in dime looks. Last year it was Rapp. So it seems Cam Lewis is ahead of Bishop.

 

Dime and Nickel are positions in this defense. The Bills train specific guys for those spots. They don't just go "next corner up" or "next safety up". Last year was a bit of an anomoly because they used Poyer as their Dime. Then Rapp would come in and play safety. If this year they were using Rapp as their Dime then Bishop would come in at safety but they are not. Lewis is their primary dime and their backup nickel. Their backup dime is Ingram. If one of their two starting safeties went out I'd expect Bishop to come in. If that happens and Lewis comes in then I'll say okay he is behind him. It's like the Ingram's ahead of Elam debate. He wasn't. The Bills just see nickel and dime as separate positions to outside corner and safety.