Buffalo trades for Amari Cooper! (for a 3rd rnd pick and a late round swap)

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Whkfc said:

That's what they do around here when you have differing opinions than the "mob"

lol, maybe just maybe it is you, 🤣 and him…,  nuthin but luv, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

56 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

A few things:

 

There is no way someone can, with 100% accuracy, determine the first read in a play simply by watching all-22. Beyond that, who is compiling/vetting these charts? Credentials? Bottom line, this is not an objective stat and should t be treated as one.

 

Second, even if this stat is 100% true, I think you are committing a logical fallacy due to confirmation bias. Your premise is the WR suck, and this “stat” which doesn’t say if the first read was open or not, if the first read was even a WR, or the type of defense being played against the call confirms it because the first read isn’t good enough to get open.

 

there are a lot of reasons this is happening, and I don’t even know wr is at the top of the list. First, Josh has always had a tendency to hold the ball…he’s not really an anticipatory thrower AND he has a ton of confidence in his ability to extend plays. Second, this offense has changed to more of a “run your route” style offense, which means the post snap defense has a lot of influence on where the ball is going. His first read is going to be based on his presnap read. It’s not like he picks a receiver and says “get open” and the receiver can’t, so he moves on.

 

Honestly, I don’t think the problem is the receivers, per se. I think trying to read the whole field under pressure while trying to not make a mistake is causing Josh to be indecisive. It doesn’t help that none of the receivers can just destroy man coverage and make it easy for him, I guess…but he shouldn’t need that if he is who we think he is. 
 

pretty much, I think Josh is the best thrower of the football in the NFL and I don’t think it is close…that covers up the fact that he is middle of the pack when it comes to decision making, and this offense and receiver core is exposing that to a certain extent. Hopefully some more “easy” reads with Cooper gets the job done.

Ah yes, the old, “I don’t like what the data says so discredit the source.” That’s a popular way to go about things in 2024.

 

That “confirmation bias” continues to be backed up by data. They aren’t getting open. You can watch the all 22, listen to experts like Ross Tucker (talked about it yesterday on WGR), read data supporting it or choose to deny it. At this point it isn’t a “feeling” that they aren’t good. The Bills made a move yesterday because they see it too. 
 

I’m not blaming the receivers 100% (I had it at a very conservative 70%). The teams with bad receivers throw to their first read less often. That’s not surprising. Cooper gets separation and is a great route runner. The Bills are missing that. He takes away that cover 0 that teams have decided to play because of the lack of receivers. 

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

And then they have to trade for Cooper because almost all the metrics and film point to their receivers not being good enough as most every objective person could see.  There were some bruised ego's having to make that move and because they heard it from media about how badly the offense went into the garbage without better WRs. 

 

I put the current kicking situation in the same category, although that is more on Beane than McD, IMO.  There should've been a legit kicking competition in camp, but instead, they pretended everything was fine. Now here we are with the worst kicker in the league this season based on current stats.

 

Bringing in other PKs in camp would've made Beane look dumb for giving Bass the early extension. It still looks dumb, but that would've made it look even worse, although it's what should've happened.

Edited October 16 by Billz4ever

[Don Otreply]

14 hours ago, Hsker4life said:

Honestly cannot believe what I just read. That is not how your HC should be welcoming an All-Pro caliber WR. 
 

 

Looks like McDermott is not enthusiastic with this trade, could be wrong but was there even “happy to have him here” verbiage from him? 
 

I was wrong, Oh well hate it when that happens 😁👍

Edited October 16 by Don Otreply

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Looks like McDermott is not enthusiastic with this trade, could be wrong but was there even “happy to have him here” verbiage from him? 

 

This is what he said.  Look, I'm one of the biggest McD critics there is, but I think people are reading into it too much.  McDermott wasn't crapping on Cooper. He was trying to strike a balance between making sure the current WR room knows he still has faith in them and at the same time, be optimistic how Cooper can make it better.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I love it when we imagine a problem then get mad like it actually happened. 😂

 

I think certain people are building a case to fire McDermott and are looking for anything they can pin on him.

Awesome. Sarcasm instead of talking about it. Joe Marino of lock on Bills pod cast talks about it. There was also twitter posts right into our game day feed talking about it as well. 

Edited October 16 by Goin Breakdown

[Don Otreply]

6 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

This is what he said.  Look, I'm one of the biggest McD critics there is, but I think people are reading into it too much.  McDermott wasn't crapping on Cooper. He was trying to strike a balance between making sure the current WR room knows he still has faith in them and at the same time, be optimistic how Cooper can make it better.

Thanks, 👍 I’m only occasionally on the kick Sean in the azs train,  such as in the sequence of downs that lead to the Rodgers Hail Mary pass, sometimes I think he’s a bit on the spectrum lol, 

 

 

[Mat68]

32 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

Right back to where it should be. People romanticize the Daboll era (and rightfully so to a degree), but we’d do the same thing with him most weeks. Remember our famous third quarter (from hell) lulls?

Daboll had some mind boggling games.  Jacksonville for instance and others.  He was an above average Co Ordinator.  Brady employing a more balanced offense is good. He is different than Daboll but unlike his predecessors Brady has created a sustainable run game.  The addition of Cooper is to exploit the looks they are starting to get.  Having Cooper receive the outside looks Hollins and MVS have received changes everything    I think Andrew Shultz stated yesterday Buffalo is looking to pass a bit more. Instead 50/50 more 55-58% passing.  

Having the ability to run the ball for real and beat man coverage will be how the Bills get past the Chiefs and make a Superbowl.  Buffalo has created the first part.  Adding Cooper helps the second.  He helps Coleman and Shakir by creating better match ups for them aswell. 

[WotAGuy]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I remember Kelvin catching a TD pass from Nate Peterman in the first 1/2 of the Snow Bowl in 2017.  Without that we very well may have lost that game and extended the drought to 18 years.  So it wasn't all bad.

 

I'm loving this trade.  Amari Is gonna be great on those scramble drills.  And he can catch those long balls.  Let's go get some hardware.

Just goes to show how much better this trade is and how Beane is making good in season decisions on trades. Pretty stark difference between the two 3rd round receiver trades. 

[Lofton80]

The endzone pass and the third down pass on crossing patterns, the receiver had no separation. Cooper should help with just that. I think it is a great pickup. He will also benefit Knox and Kincaid by the attention he will draw.    

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Instead of welcoming Cooper he's lecturing about how he's just a small cog in the machine. 

 

I'll criticize McDermott when warranted but his comments yesterday had nothing to do with Cooper. He was telling the guys that are already here you're still an important part of this team and it takes all of us.

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

Need parenting advice. Came home from work yesterday and walked through the door saying "COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPP". My 3 year old and 5 year old didn't join in or even acknowledge it. How should I handle?

Put ‘em up for adoption stat! Don’t delay. They’re not worth the heartache.

[HansLanda]

Food for thought on a possible "baseline" for Cooper. He had 1,250 yards last year, for him to get to just 1,000 this year (with the 250 he already had in Cle) would mean he will have to average about 70 yards/game going forward...and throw in another 4 TDs. 

 

 

Edited October 16 by HansLanda

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

41 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Awesome. Sarcasm instead of talking about it. Joe Marino of lock on Bills pod cast talks about it. There was also twitter posts right into our game day feed talking about it as well. 

Pretty sure Shakir was on a pitch count due to injury…that was the least snaps he got all year by a landslide.  Kincaid got 80% of the snaps which is pretty close to the highest snap percentage by a bills pass catcher all year.  This is one of those situations where one specific anecdotal instance does not tell the whole story 

 

I don’t remember the play specifically, was Knox in as an extra blocker or anything like that?

 

Edited October 16 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[UKBillFan]

2 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

Need parenting advice. Came home from work yesterday and walked through the door saying "COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPP". My 3 year old and 5 year old didn't join in or even acknowledge it. How should I handle?

 

Sounds like their excitement level is approximately the same as McDermott's so put them through NFL coaching school as soon as possible.

[JP51]

56 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Ah yes, the old, “I don’t like what the data says so discredit the source.” That’s a popular way to go about things in 2024.

 

That “confirmation bias” continues to be backed up by data. They aren’t getting open. You can watch the all 22, listen to experts like Ross Tucker (talked about it yesterday on WGR), read data supporting it or choose to deny it. At this point it isn’t a “feeling” that they aren’t good. The Bills made a move yesterday because they see it too. 
 

I’m not blaming the receivers 100% (I had it at a very conservative 70%). The teams with bad receivers throw to their first read less often. That’s not surprising. Cooper gets separation and is a great route runner. The Bills are missing that. He takes away that cover 0 that teams have decided to play because of the lack of receivers. 

100% agree. I would also say that the addition of a threat will make others like Shakir and Coleman more effective. Not sure about Samuel... just dont think he has it. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

McD comes off as a petulant child with comments like this because it's not really about showing support for the guys in the room for him.  It's because his grand vision for the offense effectively failed by Week 4 and required this move.  And Beane did what needed to be done to fix that in-season.    

 

If anything, you'd think McD would humble himself, thank Beane for making that move, talk about improving and admit this offense experiment (even secretly) could not work regardless of the QB.  Kinda wonder if a rift is developing between the GM and HC is developing, if slowly.  

You guys know you can dislike mcd without having to wildly reach for unreasonable reasons to attack him right haha like there’s plenty he’s actually done to criticize.  This just comes off as petty 

[Mikey152]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Ah yes, the old, “I don’t like what the data says so discredit the source.” That’s a popular way to go about things in 2024.

 

That “confirmation bias” continues to be backed up by data. They aren’t getting open. You can watch the all 22, listen to experts like Ross Tucker (talked about it yesterday on WGR), read data supporting it or choose to deny it. At this point it isn’t a “feeling” that they aren’t good. The Bills made a move yesterday because they see it too. 
 

I’m not blaming the receivers 100% (I had it at a very conservative 70%). The teams with bad receivers throw to their first read less often. That’s not surprising. Cooper gets separation and is a great route runner. The Bills are missing that. He takes away that cover 0 that teams have decided to play because of the lack of receivers. 

Ah yes, I am sure Ross Tucker poured over hours of tape before making that claim...

 

And I have watched the games and some all-22, including some posted on here. In fact, there were just two clips the other day "proving" that our WR don't get separation...Only, the first they showed had 7 DBs in cover 2 and Kincaid could have been wide open but he ran right at the safety, not to mention the back was available and Josh didn't even look at him. But please, tell me all about how that was on the WR.

 

FWIW, Diggs wasn't really getting separation when they made the switch to Brady, either...everyone assumed he just lost a step or was disinterested. But maybe it has more to do with the scheme, and more specifically with the type of adjustments they are allowed to run. It's pretty clear (to me) that, unlike under Dorsey, the WR are being coached to run the routes as assigned. That pretty much means the route combinations become the coverage beater, not the player. In theory, that works...but it forces your QB to process a lot more information pre and post snap and generally only one or two guys will be open on a given play.

 

 

Oh and as for teams with bad receivers throwing less to first read...maybe you should take off the blinders and look at the other teams below average in that stat...Bears, Packers, Lions, Niners, Vikings...those are all good receiver teams.

Edited October 16 by Mikey152

[Doc]

Great move and a no-brainer given the salary. And the Bills have an extra 2nd rounder that they can trade down with to recoup the 3rd. 

[wppete]

Hopefully we see less of Mack Hollins with this trade. He shouldn’t be out there with the starting offense. Hes a special teamer and thats it.