The Hail Mary from Rodgers

[frostbitmic]

The script was written so perfectly ...

 

1. McD calls for a TO with 8 seconds left in the half

2. ESPN shows multiple Aaron Rodgers Hail Mary's

3. Hail Mary Rodgers for a TD.

 

I guess McD guessed wrong.

[DrDawkinstein]

36 minutes ago, klos63 said:

We had 4 players next to Lazard, that should have been enough.  Yeah, rush at least 3, but if Johnson doesn't fall, he likely breaks up the pass.

 

A bunch of sub-6' guys going to defend against 6'5" Lazard. It would never go any other way with that personnel and scheme.

 

Everyone knew a Hail Mary was coming. Put in taller, hands players. This isnt Rocket Surgery to anyone but McD.

[BillsPride12]

32 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

The script was written so perfectly ...

 

1. McD calls for a TO with 8 seconds left in the half

2. ESPN shows multiple Aaron Rodgers Hail Mary's

3. Hail Mary Rodgers for a TD.

 

I guess McD guessed wrong.

It really was insane ESPN went to the highlight reels of Rodgers Hail Mary's and then right on queue got to add another one to his resume 

[Billsatlastin2018]

7 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

And if we had more than two defenders up, rodgers woulda gotten them into fg range. 
 

This was the correct decision.  Auto fg or Hail Mary?  
 

Lotta the coaching blame game is such hindsight and Monday (well, Tuesday) morning quarterbacking.  

 

This take is SO wrong on multiple levels.

 

1) You never, EVER give up a TD given time left, time outs finito and distance to the Goal Line! 
 

2) This means you put the heat on an immobile old man who took a beating last night! And you send 4+ minimum to ensure he never cranks one up.

 

3) A 45 yard FG with the wind swirling, if you complete a 15 yarder is neither a certainty, nor is it one that you get it off in time.

 

4) You never, ever call a TO to give the Offence time to think! That’s a particular piece of idiotic end of game management thinking particular to McClapper!

 

IF,this shite had never happened before, that’s one thing.

But, it’s an embarrassing FUBAR that has occurred several times under McD!

 

He is terrible in these situations and he just doesn’t get what to do!

[skibum]

That's a sorry play right there. A horrible call to begin with - it had that 13 seconds energy. Give Rodgers all day to set up and throw. And then the entire Bills starting backfield - Benford, Rapp, Hamlin, Douglas, and Johnson - 5 NFL defensive backs - could not collectively prevent one freaking guy from catching the ball. BARF. I'm glad it didn't matter in the end, but what a turd of a play. 

Edited October 16 by skibum

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, Sweats said:

Jesus man, first it was the Hail Murray and now it's the Rodgers Rocket.......what's next, McD?!?

In a loss, “8 seconds”?

[Rew]

I'll agree with a few other thoughtful posters here on that play.  We did what everyone wants the defense to do, we played aggressive (on the backend) to ensure that we weren't conceeding anything that let them get in scoring range.  There was nothing "soft zone coverage" about our call.

 

Most teams (especially with a quick release QB like Rodgers) with 8 seconds left would try to pickup a sideline play to be in FG range or to make a TD more feasible.  We played to ensure that they didn't get any yardage with a stopped clock.  We had plenty of coverage to also defend against a hail if they went that way.  It sucks that lizard outplayed our DBs, but that could have happened had we rushed 3 or 4.

 

I don't think anything was "bad" about the call, given the relatively high probability that they were trying for a quick pickup and that a hail attempt wouldn't have been significantly less likely with any other play call.  I have a little issue with the prior 2 calls that may have forced a timeout burn, but also allowed more yardage than I would have liked.  It's easy to judge the balance after the fact, but finding the right spot between giving up yards and burning clock is hard to find.  The clock management on the Offensive side was great to even be in a position to argue about the last 20 seconds.

 

 

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

A bunch of sub-6' guys going to defend against 6'5" Lazard. It would never go any other way with that personnel and scheme.

 

Everyone knew a Hail Mary was coming. Put in taller, hands players. This isnt Rocket Surgery to anyone but McD.

In theory, yes.

 

In practice, not unless the substituted "hands" players are competent DBs also.

 

Remember, the O gets a look at who the D put on the field before calling/ executing the play.  If you have several "hands" guys who don't normally play DB then you call a play to take advantage of that.

 

Exaample: I recall an end of game score against the Patriots (can't remember the team they played). It was, I think one of those "endless laterals" plays. I think the Patriots were expecting a "Hail Mary" and had some taller players in including Gronkowski at the goal line. He took the wrong angle against the ball carrier who took it in for the winning score.

 

Why don't teams prectice D against the Hail Mary? Because the play isn't run very often. Practice time is limited during the season so you can't waste it practicing against a play you might see no more than once every few seasons.

[klos63]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

A bunch of sub-6' guys going to defend against 6'5" Lazard. It would never go any other way with that personnel and scheme.

 

Everyone knew a Hail Mary was coming. Put in taller, hands players. This isnt Rocket Surgery to anyone but McD.

Someone else wrote our 5'8" DB's. Benford, Douglas, Taron, Rapp...all 6' or over. 

[Old Coot]

4 hours ago, Since1981 said:

I yelled put someone line Dalton/knox/keon at 1 yd. They didn’t. 

don’t understand why teams don’t plant a TE at the 1 yard for these. Am I wrong?

Possibly, yes. Remember the game when the Pats gave up the winning score to the other team? They had Gronk at the 1 yard line. It was one of those endless lateral plays. Gronk took the wrong agle and the ball carriers get by him for the score.

 

Remember, TEs practice offense everyday. They don't practice D. Against an elite athlete another elite athlete who is playing "out of position" will often lose.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

13 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

I do not know whether the following scenario happened internally, but there has never been any mention of it.

 

OFF SEASON, post the worst HCing decisions in NFL history (13 Seconds), McD should have had a rigorous internal end of half/ game time v.s. TOs left game test situations!
 

And responses required in 10-15 seconds! 
 

Starting with the Offense.

 

1) Very rudimentary, 3rd & 7 from the 50 yard line, up 3, 1 TO for the opposition and less than 1 minute to go. What do you call with Josh Allen?

 

2) Game tied.

 

3) Down 3.

 

4) Down 6.

 

5) Add on 1 or both opposition TOs. 
 

6) From your own 36 yard line. You have 3/2/1/0 TOs

 

7) From your own 6 yard line, 3 opposition TOS. You have 3/2/1/0 TOs

 

8 The opposition QB is Mahomes, Stroud or Jackson.

 

9) The opposition QB is Cousins or Rodgers.

 

10) The opposition QB is a stiff.

 

11) etc. up to 50.

 

Defense. How you defend?

 

1) Multiple similar scenarios.

 

2) QB is Mahomes, Stroud or Jackson.

 

3) Cousins or Rodgers.

 

4) The opposition QB is a stiff.

 

5) When specifically is it correct to call a TO? Why? Against whom?

 

CLEARLY, McD hasn’t learned anything in these few critical scenarios.

 

HE needs to.

 

They should be rapid-fire questions, even from our media. He probably wouldn't be able to answer most of those.

 

It would be like watching a Presidential Debate, he'd repeat the question and then just deflect and talk about character, work ethic, and preparation...3 things he personally would know absolutely nothing about. 

Edited October 16 by HomeskillitMoorman

[dma0034]

At some point they have to practice this. On top of the Cardinals I remember the Chargers getting a hail Mary but it was short of the end zone (maybe right after the Cardinals game)

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

A bunch of sub-6' guys going to defend against 6'5" Lazard. It would never go any other way with that personnel and scheme.

 

Everyone knew a Hail Mary was coming. Put in taller, hands players. This isnt Rocket Surgery to anyone but McD.

If Johnson was watching the ball, he would have got a crack at defending it.

2 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

At some point they have to practice this. On top of the Cardinals I remember the Chargers getting a hail Mary but it was short of the end zone (maybe right after the Cardinals game)

The Bucs almost won it last year with a Hail Mary,  If the WR was watching for the ball, he would have got it

[Figster]

17 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

 

I guess we will see from the coach's video to see how the defense is set up. Clearly, as McDermott admitted, the Bills were playing the sideline, which is a higher percentage play from the Jets or anyone else's perspective, but the Jets were going for broke on Hail Mary. 

 

Overall, I don't think you can say people are going to live or die on Hail Mary day in and day out but proper preparation for your players matter. I don't know what McDermott said during the timeout prior to the play. If Hail Mary is not mentioned, it is a failure. Having 5 guys right before Rodgers launched the throw near him - not pressuring him - is inexcusable. You gotta tell guys to defend the Hail Mary as soon as you see the receivers are darting for the end zone if your strategy is not to rush the passer.

 

Personally I feel for McDermott and Co. going forward, just play your normal defense in those end of game, end of half scenarios. You are likely to have more success. The strength of McDermott led defense is to have guys in proper position and not giving up big plays. Just stick to that. We have done just that in the Arizona game and this Jets game at the end.

 

Oh by the way for obvious Hail Mary defense, please get Coleman or Elam onto the field. We need some size and better ball tracking guys instead of small-ish DBs and Safeties back there.    

I really like the Coleman, Elam idea defending the hail Mary, wait, make that I love the idea!

[Frostbite]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I didn't like rushing 2 on the Hail Mary. I'd have rushed 4 - though worth saying we rushed 4 on the Hail Murray and got stung. But I'd have rushed 4. That said I understood what they were trying to do on the Hail Mary. Where they were trying to give themselves maximum cover guys to play the HM and the sideline at the same time. Wasn't what I'd have done but understood it to an extent then you just gotta execute better. Lazard beat all the Bills to the prime spot. 

 

The less excusable play was the play before where they also rushed 2 when the Jets had a timeout left and gave them an easy 15 yards. That made no sense to me. Just play your normal defense there. Okay move the safeties back 10 yards if you wish, but otherwise just play defense. Not sure what that plan was designed to defend? 

If i remember correctly, Kyler made a great play. Our 4 got there but Kyler was too elusive and got the throw off. Rodgers is not elusive at all and has a bum ankle. I think they shouldve brought 5 and force rodgers to throw it short or get to him for a sack.

 

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Frostbite said:

If i remember correctly, Kyler made a great play. Our 4 got there but Kyler was too elusive and got the throw off. Rodgers is not elusive at all and has a bum ankle. I think they shouldve brought 5 and force rodgers to throw it short or get to him for a sack.

 

 

I would not have blitzed. I wouldn't have sent two either but I hate blitzing in those scenarios. It fails much more often than it works IMO. 

[SoMAn]

22 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

The best thing about that Hail Mary play is that it doesn't matter anymore (i.e. the Jets lost...so it just becomes another play). Obviously, not happy with how we can't seem to defend Hail Marys but glad it didn't end up mattering in the end.

Agree, and in the end it may be a plus. It didn't contribute to a loss in that game, and the learning experience may benefit them in the future.

[colin]

mcd has allowed way too many clean attempts at hail maries, and has bumbled a whole lot of late game and end of half scenarios. 

 

the silly thing is our d is base nickel and generally has the best stats vs the deep pass, especially up the middle.  going out of that for some zero impact d is what has hurt us and corch has to wake up to it, right now.

 

also, billicheck who managed just a little more success in the playoffs than mcd would put WRs back their for special situations, knox and kinkaid and coleman can all play center field and body in front of the ball, only need one or two back there to take the hail mary away. 

[JP51]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:15 PM, WideNine said:

It was clear all game long to anyone who understands defense that Rogers was orders of magnitude worse completing any throws when pressured from the pocket.

 

The Jets were trying to dink and dunk to get the ball out of his hands faster and knowing it was pass the defense was starting to feed and shut them down.

 

So our defensive geniuses decided to break what was working and rush 2.

 

Nowhere is that the right decision...giving Rogers all the time in the world for a 50/50 shot at the end zone and what's worse is you know how the officiating was going...you set yourself up for a very real possibility of a PI in the EZ setting them up on the doorstep.

 

Just dumb, and we need smarter coaching on the defensive side of the ball and some semblance of those coaches having a feel for the game script so they don't do stupid things to hurt the team.

 

 

 

 

Whats funny is the sequence of events and kickoff and coverage was remarkably similar to what we did 13 Seconds KC game. 

[HappyDays]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:55 PM, GunnerBill said:

The less excusable play was the play before where they also rushed 2 when the Jets had a timeout left and gave them an easy 15 yards. That made no sense to me. Just play your normal defense there. Okay move the safeties back 10 yards if you wish, but otherwise just play defense. Not sure what that plan was designed to defend? 

 

The all-22 view of this play is insane:

 

 

What the heck am I looking at here?? Those two players to either side of the Jets logo are Rousseau and Epenesa as... intermediate safeties?? This is like something stupid you do for fun on Madden, hey what if I put my edge rushers at safety and see what happens. I have no idea what the plan is here.

 

To anyone trying to defend McDermott and blame the players for failing to execute, this sequence is not a one-off fluke, it is a trend. We have an unbelievable track record of goofy end of half or end of game defensive breakdowns under McDermott. I'm not going to bother to list them all. The players involved have changed over time. There is only one impossible to ignore constant.

 

The scary thing is that you cannot win a championship without executing on moments like this at least a couple times during your playoff run. And executing on these moments is by far McDermott's WORST trait as a head coach. My biggest fear is that no matter what else the Bills do, this one fatal flaw will always end up costing us at some point. That exact scenario already cost us one possible championship and it hasn't gotten any better.

 

Edited October 17 by HappyDays