Thoughts The Day..Morning After

[corta765]

I am just going to open with this.  W T F DID WE WATCH? I WATCHED THE BROWNS BILLS 6-3 GAME WHICH WAS ATROCIOUS... ANDDD THAT STILL HAD A BETTER FLOW AND WAS MORE WATCHABLE THEN WHATEVER WE CALL THAT PRODUCT LAST NIGHT.

 

Back to normal talking here are my takeaways from last night:

 

1. Right The Ship- Smackdown vs BAL, Blown opportunity vs HOU meant it was put up or shut up time and credit to the team for winning while still missing or playing with hurt starters. It wasn't the prettiest for sure or the easiest (HAIL MARY SERIOUSLY) but your 4-2 after a brutally tough open. More importantly Buffalo in division is 2-0 and in conference 3-2. They have massive opportunity to stack a bunch of wins here with TEN/at SEA/MIA/at IND before the last gauntlet of the year. To early to worry about seeding and they need help at WR if they really plan on being an issue come January, BUT they have set themselves up where a 3-1 stretch is very possible to get to 7-3 and really can help before the stretch run. All I truly cared about after starting 3-0 was just please be 4-2 by TEN and they did that while ugly.

 

2. Offense Back In Drive- I would call last night efficient which if they can do in the majority of their remaining games will lead to a really good record. Josh was superb and rebounded nicely after a concerning bad game in HOU, the running attack was stellar, and the pass catcher did enough. I thought Brady had a good gameplan and even when things got rocky 3/4th quarter they stuck with what worked. Note that Shakir only played 38% of snaps and to me he was healthy enough to be a decoy that forced the Jets to gameplan for him. That speaks volumes to his importance, but they really need another guy to step up.

 

3. Cook Contract Will Be Interesting- He has one year left on his rookie deal and he has been very good since arriving in Buffalo with a well earned Pro Bowl nod last year and potentially another this year as he has been quite good. BUT Ray Davis looked stellar last night, the offensive line is pretty strong, and Ty Johnson is a good spell back. I have to believe Beane is looking at this very interestingly as they could just let him walk like Singletary if he wants too much. The RB market and overall feel is quite curious because rushing attacks are certainly back in vogue, but teams are hesitant still it feels for big deals. I wonder if Cook just wants a sizable payday if Beane even considers it or with the horses already here it is a non starter.

 

4. Defense Refresh Feels Really Good Long Term- They had their moments last night, but overall the defense long term feels really good and is to me a highlight in Beane's work to reset the talent base. Right now you have a very nice core developed that includes Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Bernard, D Williams, Benford, & T Johnson. I love Douglas but Ja'Marcus Ingram was really good when put into the lineup and I wonder if Beane considers letting Douglas walk to save the money for elsewhere and let some of the talent sitting there emerge. Most importantly Bernard & Benford have emerged into true blue chip starters aka guys who make game altering plays regularly and without them the defense is not the same. With Tre White's sad departure and Milano seemingly aging (that blows) you needed some new young faces to show up. Entering this season Taron Johnson (nice to see him back) was the one guy I looked at who was in his prime as a blue chip guy, adding two more guys to this mix makes me feel a heck of a lot better for the future. Safety is the one area ironically where they are going to need a guy to emerge that is young and hopefully Bishop can. Rapp has been solid this year and Hamlin is at least being a serviceable starter, but to me if the defense is going to go back to being a top 5 unit they need safety to solidify for real (another pass rusher would be good as you can never have enough). Dorian Williams also has taken a nice step and while he is not the best in coverage yet, his tackling and thumper hits have been a nice addition. You hope Milano can return to form when/if he returns in December, but realistically Williams has made me no longer worry about that spot anymore.

 

5. What About That Bass- Yea.. yikes. For the record a lot of people point to the KC game as when he should've been cut, but he had the yips far earlier in 2023 as he missed two against the Giants and pretty much from then on you could see the shakiness emerge with the PHI game especially being a disaster. I feel for Beane because up until 2023 he was a very dependable kicker and at his age you can't really plan on a guy getting the yips that early, but he does seem to have lost his fast ball. Cut him? Would love to but the free agent pool is pretty barren and the contract hit is atrocious also. I firmly understand wanting to move on and if a good solution was present they need to. With all of that said if the option is cut Bass but it costs the ability to add a WR I can tell you which way I am heading and it means keeping my bass in the pond for the remainder of the year.

 

6. Coaching.. the Good the Bad the Ugly:

Good- Offense founds it flow and Brady seemed to be ahead of the Jets all night with play calls. Babich got the defense going and the pressure increased by the 2nd quarter after allowing NY 10 pts early. McD has the team prepared and the physicality was nice after the last two weeks.

Bad- Does the defense realize they are allowed to tackle on screen passes? This team could be given massive blinking sign that says incoming screen pass and they still would let it go for 10 yards plus. Babich has been solid for the most part in year one, but the screens have been eating us all year. Dion Dawkins what in gods name are you doing killing drives with Unsportsmanlike Conduct? I get he loves the rivalry and getting the opposition off, but that penalty start of the 4th quarter was a complete drive killer and by that point the coaching staff needs to have the guys in line better.

Ugly- Hail Mary. I mean it is comical at this point between the coaching timeout and then the actual defense put out there. I need the stats on Hail Marys allowed because the Bills have to be near the top historically with this coach specifically.

 

7. The Very Visible Elephant In The Room- The division feels pretty certain and I have no issue saying this is a good team with some nice pieces, especially on defense. But this is not a great team at this moment that will go toe to toe with the best in the league without a perfect gameplan and 17 being at his max. Khalil Shakir is the 2nd most important person on the offense after 17 because the WR corp just isn't enough. Mack is a fun player and has had a few decent moments, but him and MVS overall have been pretty bad. Samuel finally had a few decent plays last night but overall he just isn't making a mark. Coleman has honestly had probably the best moments of the pass catching group after Shakir, but he is a rookie and that means major ups and downs. Probably the greatest disappointment for me has been Kincaid who has clearly regressed. Adding a true outside boundary threat like Amari Cooper (example does not have to be him) would do a world of help to shift the WR Corp to their better spots and make the offense far more diverse to defend. 6 games in your 3rd WR (Samuel) is pacing for 34 rec and 261 yards on the year, that isn't nearly enough if your goal it the SB. The bad teams are out there with some talent that will be available from big names to just solid names, but failure to add anything feels like the teams is cursed to the same close loss outcome they had against KC last season.

Edited October 15 by corta765

[JP51]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

I am just going to open with this.  W T F DID WE WATCH? I WATCHED THE BROWNS BILLS 6-3 GAME WHICH WAS ATROCIOUS... ANDDD THAT STILL HAD A BETTER FLOW AND WAS MORE WATCHABLE THEN WHATEVER WE CALL THAT PRODUCT LAST NIGHT.

 

Back to normal talking here are my takeaways from last night:

 

1. Right The Ship- Smackdown vs BAL, Blown opportunity vs HOU meant it was put up or shut up time and credit to the team for winning while still missing or playing with hurt starters. It wasn't the prettiest for sure or the easiest (HAIL MARY SERIOUSLY) but your 4-2 after a brutally tough open. More importantly Buffalo in division is 2-0 and in conference 3-2. They have massive opportunity to stack a bunch of wins here with TEN/at SEA/MIA/at IND before the last gauntlet of the year. To early to worry about seeding and they need help at WR if they really plan on being an issue come January, BUT they have set themselves up where a 3-1 stretch is very possible to get to 7-3 and really can help before the stretch run. All I truly cared about after starting 3-0 was just please be 4-2 by TEN and they did that while ugly.

 

2. Offense Back In Drive- I would call last night efficient which if they can do in the majority of their remaining games will lead to a really good record. Josh was superb and rebounded nicely after a concerning bad game in HOU, the running attack was stellar, and the pass catcher did enough. I thought Brady had a good gameplan and even when things got rocky 3/4th quarter they stuck with what worked. Note that Shakir only played 38% of snaps and to me he was healthy enough to be a decoy that forced the Jets to gameplan for him. That speaks volumes to his importance, but they really need another guy to step up.

 

3. Cook Contract Will Be Interesting- He has one year left on his rookie deal and he has been very good since arriving in Buffalo with a well earned Pro Bowl nod last year and potentially another this year as he has been quite good. BUT Ray Davis looked stellar last night, the offensive line is pretty strong, and Ty Johnson is a good spell back. I have to believe Beane is looking at this very interestingly as they could just let him walk like Singletary if he wants too much. The RB market and overall feel is quite curious because rushing attacks are certainly back in vogue, but teams are hesitant still it feels for big deals. I wonder if Cook just wants a sizable payday if Beane even considers it or with the horses already here it is a non starter.

 

4. Defense Refresh Feels Really Good Long Term- They had their moments last night, but overall the defense long term feels really good and is to me a highlight in Beane's work to reset the talent base. Right now you have a very nice core developed that includes Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Bernard, D Williams, Benford, & T Johnson. I love Douglas but Ja'Marcus Ingram was really good when put into the lineup and I wonder if Beane considers letting Douglas walk to save the money for elsewhere and let some of the talent sitting there emerge. Most importantly Bernard & Benford have emerged into true blue chip starters aka guys who make game altering plays regularly and without them the defense is not the same. With Tre White's sad departure and Milano seemingly aging (that blows) you needed some new young faces to show up. Entering this season Taron Johnson (nice to see him back) was the one guy I looked at who was in his prime as a blue chip guy, adding two more guys to this mix makes me feel a heck of a lot better for the future. Safety is the one area ironically where they are going to need a guy to emerge that is young and hopefully Bishop can. Rapp has been solid this year and Hamlin is at least being a serviceable starter, but to me if the defense is going to go back to being a top 5 unit they need safety to solidify for real (another pass rusher would be good as you can never have enough). Dorian Williams also has taken a nice step and while he is not the best in coverage yet, his tackling and thumper hits have been a nice addition. You hope Milano can return to form when/if he returns in December, but realistically Williams has made me no longer worry about that spot anymore.

 

5. What About That Bass- Yea.. yikes. For the record a lot of people point to the KC game as when he should've been cut, but he had the yips far earlier in 2023 as he missed two against the Giants and pretty much from then on you could see the shakiness emerge with the PHI game especially being a disaster. I feel for Beane because up until 2023 he was a very dependable kicker and at his age you can't really plan on a guy getting the yips that early, but he does seem to have lost his fast ball. Cut him? Would love to but the free agent pool is pretty barren and the contract hit is atrocious also. I firmly understand wanting to move on and if a good solution was present they need to. With all of that said if the option is cut Bass but it costs the ability to add a WR I can tell you which way I am heading and it means keeping my bass in the pond for the remainder of the year.

 

6. Coaching.. the Good the Bad the Ugly:

Good- Offense founds it flow and Brady seemed to be ahead of the Jets all night with play calls. Babich got the defense going and the pressure increased by the 2nd quarter after allowing NY 10 pts early. McD has the team prepared and the physicality was nice after the last two weeks.

Bad- Does the defense realize they are allowed to tackle on screen passes? This team could be given massive blinking sign that says incoming screen pass and they still would let it go for 10 yards plus. Babich has been solid for the most part in year one, but the screens have been eating us all year. Dion Dawkins what in gods name are you doing killing drives with Unsportsmanlike Conduct? I get he loves the rivalry and getting the opposition off, but that penalty start of the 4th quarter was a complete drive killer and by that point the coaching staff needs to have the guys in line better.

Ugly- Hail Mary. I mean it is comical at this point between the coaching timeout and then the actual defense put out there. I need the stats on Hail Marys allowed because the Bills have to be near the top historically with this coach specifically.

 

7. The Very Visible Elephant In The Room- The division feels pretty certain and I have no issue saying this is a good team with some nice pieces, especially on defense. But this is not a great team at this moment that will go toe to toe with the best in the league without a perfect gameplan and 17 being at his max. Khalil Shakir is the 2nd most important person on the offense after 17 because the WR corp just isn't enough. Mack is a fun player and has had a few decent moments, but him and MVS overall have been pretty bad. Samuel finally had a few decent plays last night but overall he just isn't making a mark. Coleman has honestly had probably the best moments of the pass catching group after Shakir, but he is a rookie and that means major ups and downs. Probably the greatest disappointment for me has been Kincaid who has clearly regressed. Adding a true outside boundary threat like Amari Cooper (example does not have to be him) would do a world of help to shift the WR Corp to their better spots and make the offense far more diverse to defend. 6 games in your 3rd WR (Samuel) is pacing for 34 rec and 261 yards on the year, that isn't nearly enough if your goal it the SB. The bad teams are out there with some talent that will be available from big names to just solid names, but failure to add anything feels like the teams is cursed to the same close loss outcome they had against KC last season.

Great synopsis, point 7 I am totally in agreement. WR have been bad... zero separation, I dont know if Kincaid has regressed or people know he is our only legitimate threat with Shakir hobbled... this position has to improve. Coleman is fine but again zero separation, if he isnt catching 50/50 balls he really hasnt been open much. 

[zow2]

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

 

2. Offense Back In Drive- I would call last night efficient which if they can do in the majority of their remaining games will lead to a really good record. Josh was superb and rebounded nicely after a concerning bad game in HOU, the running attack was stellar, and the pass catcher did enough. I thought Brady had a good gameplan and even when things got rocky 3/4th quarter they stuck with what worked. Note that Shakir only played 38% of snaps and to me he was healthy enough to be a decoy that forced the Jets to gameplan for him. That speaks volumes to his importance, but they really need another guy to step up.

 

Agree. I'd be curious to see how many drives in the 2nd were not stopped because of penalties.  In other words, a situation where they had to get more than 10 for a first and failed to overcome it.  Seems like very few if any.  This offense is less equipped to overcome a 1st and 20 or 25.  That said, in the past, and particularly against teams like the Jets with a good defense the offense would seem to get frustrated and then rush and become a bit panicky.  Sometimes they would make the big play but lots of times they would make the stupid play that would give the other team the win.  They didn't do that last night. Despite the frustration they stayed calm and kicked the punt or field goal when they needed to and it helped them secure a win.  Now...key to that strategy would seem to be a reliable kicking game...and yeeesh.  

[chaccof]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

I am just going to open with this.  W T F DID WE WATCH? I WATCHED THE BROWNS BILLS 6-3 GAME WHICH WAS ATROCIOUS... ANDDD THAT STILL HAD A BETTER FLOW AND WAS MORE WATCHABLE THEN WHATEVER WE CALL THAT PRODUCT LAST NIGHT.

I'm wondering if the NFL brass are at all embarrassed by the game?  The officiating was brutal for both teams and to your point, no flow, very hard to follow on TV or in my case, TV with volume down and WGR up.  I thought Eric Wood was going to jump out of the press box.....

[Sojourner]

12 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

Might take time but I bought into the “phone booth” speed. His measurables for winning in the short game were elite yet, more often than not, the db is on his hip. 
 

You’re right though, it seems the majority of the balls that go his way are 50/50. Not exactly the ideal usage of your first round pick

[kkim0904]

Awesome.. A Win is a win.  We had low expectation this season and supposedly rebuilding year.  

Quote

 

 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

 

And yet again last night he is struggling running clearouts to open other things up. Has been an issue for him all year. He has to be a lot better on plays where he isn't getting the ball as well as those where he is. 

[corta765]

17 minutes ago, chaccof said:

I'm wondering if the NFL brass are at all embarrassed by the game?  The officiating was brutal for both teams and to your point, no flow, very hard to follow on TV or in my case, TV with volume down and WGR up.  I thought Eric Wood was going to jump out of the press box.....

 

It takes a lot to get me to feel any sympathy for an opponent let alone a rival. I left the game feeling bad for Jet fans because if we lost I would've been beyond furious at how much the game was altered and destroyed by the refs. It was that bad

30 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

So interesting thing is Keon is pacing right now 34 rec 570 yds 6 TDs. For a rookie that isn't too bad at all. He needs time to develop it took Shakir a year and half to find his way and use his best attributes properly. Keon as WR3 is fine although he should prob be WR4 (#makethetradeBrandon). The much bigger issue is Samuel/MVS/Hollis. The rookie is ahead of all of them which is both good but also very bad given what he is pacing for and what you had hoped they wouldve done.

[Sweats]

42 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

 

 

 

Coleman is the guy you want on the inside playing the slot. You let that big, bodied guy get in the middle and do some damage against some LB's......death by a thousand cuts.

There's no way we should be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and have him playing on the outside.......okay, it worked at FSU where he was bigger than most CB/DB's but it's not going to work in the NFL where he would probably only be utilized for 50-50 balls.

[KingBoots8]

28 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

 

 

I figured it out. It’s to make buy NFL+ Premium so you can watch the condensed versions and skip all the yellow hoopla. 
 

Here’s that officiating crew in the off-season. 

Speaking of that pile of poo that is NFL+, I love that I paid to watch this game but the NFL app couldn’t allow me to airplay from my phone to my TV. Everything else worked fine, so it’s not my devices. My “condensed” version was watching on my phone and not my 70” TV. NFL probably going to make you pay even more just to stream it from one device to another (I hope I didn’t speak that into existence)

 

 

[Brandon]

4 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

Coleman is the guy you want on the inside playing the slot. You let that big, bodied guy get in the middle and do some damage against some LB's......death by a thousand cuts.

There's no way we should be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and have him playing on the outside.......okay, it worked at FSU where he was bigger than most CB/DB's but it's not going to work in the NFL where he would probably only be utilized for 50-50 balls.

 

I think that's probably true and that Coleman would fit best in the slot role,  but the problem is,  so do Kincaid and Shakir,  and they're better than he is right now.  So what do you do?  It's one of the reasons I thought Coleman was an odd pick and fit for the Bills. 

[Cray51]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And yet again last night he is struggling running clearouts to open other things up. Has been an issue for him all year. He has to be a lot better on plays where he isn't getting the ball as well as those where he is. 

Agreed, there was a clear play I believe to Samuel where it was blown up because Coleman didnt react well and (while not a clear out route) missed his block.  Off the ball he needs to improve.

 

With that said, out of any of the facets of the WR game I think can be taught, running clear out routes is something I think he will grow in

[US Egg]

The Bill with the giant head stood out. 

[Sojourner]

24 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

Speaking of that pile of poo that is NFL+, I love that I paid to watch this game but the NFL app couldn’t allow me to airplay from my phone to my TV. Everything else worked fine, so it’s not my devices. My “condensed” version was watching on my phone and not my 70” TV. NFL probably going to make you pay even more just to stream it from one device to another (I hope I didn’t speak that into existence)

 

 

Yeah, I think that is the biggest scam ever. I know why they do it; so you aren’t a bar or establishment and paying a cheaper fee to show games. 

 

I have an android phone and haven’t found a product that works as well as the one I use for my wife’s iPad. It’s a digital AV adapter that connects to the charging port. You plug an HDMI and hook it up to your tv and it broadcasts the screen without it rendering it as screen mirroring / airplay

edit:  This is what we have 

 

Edited October 15 by Sojourner

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, corta765 said:

3. Cook Contract Will Be Interesting- He has one year left on his rookie deal and he has been very good since arriving in Buffalo with a well earned Pro Bowl nod last year and potentially another this year as he has been quite good. BUT Ray Davis looked stellar last night, the offensive line is pretty strong, and Ty Johnson is a good spell back. I have to believe Beane is looking at this very interestingly as they could just let him walk like Singletary if he wants too much. The RB market and overall feel is quite curious because rushing attacks are certainly back in vogue, but teams are hesitant still it feels for big deals. I wonder if Cook just wants a sizable payday if Beane even considers it or with the horses already here it is a non starter.

Don't give RBs a 2nd contract.

[Mat68]

Ugly nasty game.  Primary skill player Cook out.  Primary wr threat Shakir very limited.  Offense did enough to win.  Left some points on the field but played a clean enough game to beat a good defense.  Davis looked great. Him and Cook will be large parts of the offense.  
 

Defense was missing probably the best lineman in Oliver.  Johnson showed why he is an All pro.  Benard and Williams are become a good combo at linebacker. They gave it up so you can not dismiss it, but without the Hail Mary they gave up 13 points.  Redzone defense stepped up. 

I think on offense they are figuring things out.  Coleman is making just enough rookie mistakes to keep him from being a larger factor.  Shakir and Coleman have the most juice of any Wr on the roster with the ball in their hands.  Run game will continue to be a strong suit.  I think even without adding a guy the offense could get a bit more explosive.  Maybe use more 21 or 22 with Davis and Cook both on the field.  Use Cook on some of those motions and plays designed for Samuel.  
 

As the schedule lightens up some and as the defense gets healthier they will play better.  4-2 with wins at Miami and at NJ.  Before the season started you are told Buffalo only lost to Baltimore and Houston.  Allen hasn’t thrown a pick in the first 6 weeks. Everyone would be on board.  Dont miss the forest from the trees.   

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

I haven't figured out Keon and neither has Brady or Allen.  He makes a splash play here and there,,,but he looks really slow.  But supposedly he has football speed.  Every pass doesn't need to be 50/50.  Figure out a way to get him the ball where he doesn't have to beat a guy downfield ....because he's being blanketed.

Keon may be his own worst enemy.  Heard from more than one source he does not run good routes and is inconsistent. He needs to learn and quickly.

[zow2]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

Keon may be his own worst enemy.  Heard from more than one source he does not run good routes and is inconsistent. He needs to learn and quickly.

 

And his blocking on that screen pass last night and some other away from the ball plays...some of the sorriest football i've seen.

[nedboy7]

The only thing I can think of the past few games is how bad our coaching can be at critical times.  Nothing else stands out to me.  Oh yeah the lack of WR talent too.  And I am a huge rose color glasses homer.  That hail mary rush 2 BS would make me implode if I was Terry.