So about the refs tonight

[JP51]

That officiating crew truly believed that the entire sport of organized football is about them... an absolute travesty on Prime Time. Literally ruined the game. And lets not forget like the 5 times that there were multiple flags and penalties offset. 

[Coastie]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wouldn't worry. Churchill was drunk most of the time anyway. If he wasn't drunk he was sleeping off a hangover. 

Yes, but in the morning he would be sober and refs would still be terrible.

[dave mcbride]

Just read that 30 penalties were called — 22 accepted, 6 negated because offsetting, and 2 declined. That is RIDICULOUS.

[Matt_In_NH]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

They need a complete revamp. This season has finally convinced me NFL peaked and their profits WILL take a hit, even if it takes 5 years to catch up. The growth curve can not continue while alienating your core fan base. 

 

Sure they have women watching more than any time in history, and it's awesome. Seeing my wife become a fan since we met has warmed my heart in a wild way.... but when core fans stop turning on the TV, what happens to the "secondary" viewers.... wives, kids in the house. Neighbors who really only come for the hang and then the league starts winning them over into a "real fan". 

 

My Fandom has soooo many secondary eyes. In-laws. I personally bring 15-20 sets of secondary eyes onto the product...  but when me and other core fans shut the TV off, the growth curve is NOT sustainable.

 

^^^and I know what I'm talking about is probably half or more of the fans on this board

I mean at some point the growth is hard to maintain.   But they do that by adding games and tv windows more than anything.  The refs are way better than they were years ago, it’s not close.   The quick replays to clean things up is great.    Last night was exceptionally bad but not all games are like that.  I do t think most fans understand how hard it is to be a ref.   Subjectivenss will always be a factor and always has.  People complained about the refs in the 90s.  The refs won’t be the downfall.  

[Olliemets]

I umpired baseball for many summers. Youth, Travel Ball and HS. I took classes, training sessions, had to ingest the rule book, etc. It was drilled into me from day one what your job as an official is

 

Manage the game. Maintain the flow of the game as best as possible. Be as invisible as you can.

[BillsShredder83]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I mean at some point the growth is hard to maintain.   But they do that by adding games and tv windows more than anything.  The refs are way better than they were years ago, it’s not close.   The quick replays to clean things up is great.    Last night was exceptionally bad but not all games are like that.  I do t think most fans understand how hard it is to be a ref.   Subjectivenss will always be a factor and always has.  People complained about the refs in the 90s.  The refs won’t be the downfall.  

Refs being subjective should be a part of the game. They've overcomplicated so many rules these guys are second guessing things they already know.

 

"What is a catch" is a perfect example. 2 feet, reasonable control of the ball. The "Well he shifted the ball after the catch going to the ground/out of bounds" kinda BS is where these go bad. 

 

Dudes catch the ball, transfer/tucker it down into a running with the ball position and suddenly it's not a catch. GARBAGE

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

They need a complete revamp. This season has finally convinced me NFL peaked and their profits WILL take a hit, even if it takes 5 years to catch up. The growth curve can not continue while alienating your core fan base. 

 

That might (I'm not convinced but might) be true of the US viewership but their international viewership is continuing to grow. The 2023 season was the best season yet in terms of TV numbers in the UK and the main NFL broadcaster has for the first time this year bought the rights to college football too given the numbers the NFL is doing for them. I know that doesn't go to NFL profit lines, but it is further evidence that UK broadcasters are pretty confident American Football is a winner for them - any the UK isn't unique, their international markets are growing. So until domestic viewership really drops off I think some of those markets will pick up the slack. 

 

And a point @Mr. WEO has made in the past that is relevant here as well is that unless the drop off in viewers from the NFL is disproportionate compared to the drop off in viewers in other forms of linear television (and it isn't, not even close) it will remain the best place for advertisers to get eyeballs and so the revenue stream remains strong. 

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Just read that 30 penalties were called — 22 accepted, 6 negated because offsetting, and 2 declined. That is RIDICULOUS.

 

In a game that certainly wasn't "dirty" or even that testy for the most part. There was a point in the second half where everything felt like a flag.

[Matt_In_NH]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Refs being subjective should be a part of the game. They've overcomplicated so many rules these guys are second guessing things they already know.

 

"What is a catch" is a perfect example. 2 feet, reasonable control of the ball. The "Well he shifted the ball after the catch going to the ground/out of bounds" kinda BS is where these go bad. 

 

Dudes catch the ball, transfer/tucker it down into a running with the ball position and suddenly it's not a catch. GARBAGE

Part of the reason I said people don’t get how difficult a refs job is because as you said they keep adding and making it complicated.  They rarely remove details for a rule.  
 

 

I completely disagree on the catch thing though.  The last time they addressed that it got a million times better.  You must not remember when the ball moved a millimeter so it was not a catch.    It is now about as good as it can be IMO.  There will always be some that are close and go either way no matter how detailed you make the rules.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

22 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Maybe I don't understand the rules, but how was that non-fumble not intentional grounding? He was in the tackle box, in the process of getting sacked, and the ball didn't make it past the LoS.

 

The refs ruled that Rodgers started his pass, then was hit by a defender that caused the pass to go awry, therefore it doesn't matter where the ball lands it cannot be intentional grounding and/or backwards lateral. 

[Dan Darragh]

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

- Jets PI when the ball was thrown several yards out of bounds

I think each team had a DPI called on an uncatchable ball, but it's been years since I've seen them wave off a DPI for being uncatchable

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

They need a complete revamp. This season has finally convinced me NFL peaked and their profits WILL take a hit, even if it takes 5 years to catch up. The growth curve can not continue while alienating your core fan base. 

 

Sure they have women watching more than any time in history, and it's awesome. Seeing my wife become a fan since we met has warmed my heart in a wild way.... but when core fans stop turning on the TV, what happens to the "secondary" viewers.... wives, kids in the house. Neighbors who really only come for the hang and then the league starts winning them over into a "real fan". 

 

My Fandom has soooo many secondary eyes. In-laws. I personally bring 15-20 sets of secondary eyes onto the product...  but when me and other core fans shut the TV off, the growth curve is NOT sustainable.

 

^^^and I know what I'm talking about is probably half or more of the fans on this board

 

where is the evidence that "core fans" are turning away from the NFL in numbers?

 

Posters here have been predicting the imminent demise of the NFL for many years.  No league has so many fans that complain endlessly about the product they simply can't get enough of.  

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That might (I'm not convinced but might) be true of the US viewership but their international viewership is continuing to grow. The 2023 season was the best season yet in terms of TV numbers in the UK and the main NFL broadcaster has for the first time this year bought the rights to college football too given the numbers the NFL is doing for them. I know that doesn't go to NFL profit lines, but it is further evidence that UK broadcasters are pretty confident American Football is a winner for them - any the UK isn't unique, their international markets are growing. So until domestic viewership really drops off I think some of those markets will pick up the slack. 

 

And a point @Mr. WEO has made in the past that is relevant here as well is that unless the drop off in viewers from the NFL is disproportionate compared to the drop off in viewers in other forms of linear television (and it isn't, not even close) it will remain the best place for advertisers to get eyeballs and so the revenue stream remains strong. 

 

In a game that certainly wasn't "dirty" or even that testy for the most part. There was a point in the second half where everything felt like a flag.

 

 

Imagine if, like MLB, the NFL televised playoff games on weekday afternoons?  These other leagues don't even care any more.  They simply can't compete for viewers with the NFL. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Olliemets said:

I umpired baseball for many summers. Youth, Travel Ball and HS. I took classes, training sessions, had to ingest the rule book, etc. It was drilled into me from day one what your job as an official is

 

Manage the game. Maintain the flow of the game as best as possible. Be as invisible as you can.

Hey! The refs did their level best to 'manage' the game. They managed to screw it up....big time! 🙂

[Ned Flanders]

13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Also, has anyone heard of replay assist being used this much in a game? I think this crew must be on a short leash.

Never heard of a replay assist on a penalty before as happened last night.

[MPT]

7 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

It was awful for both teams. 

 

Yes, it was awful for both teams. But it was much more awful for one team than the other.

[Saxum]

 

Quote

But the win was marred by a series of questionable calls from officials, including a pair against the Bills that sparked outrage. There were 22 total accepted penalties in the game, 11 against the Bills for 94 total yards and 11 against the Jets for 110 yards.

 

Aaron Rodgers Calls Out ‘Really Bad’ Penalties

Quote

One of the calls, a roughing the passer penalty that gave the Jets a key first down in the third quarter, was so controversial that even Rodgers admitted it should not have been called.

 

One of the most questionable calls came in the third quarter with the Bills holding a 20-13 lead and the Jets facing a third-and-8. Bills edge rusher A.J. Epenesa sacked quarterback Aaron Rodgers on the play but was flagged for roughing the passer, a call that drew controversy.

 

The penalty was costly for the Bills, giving the Jets a first down instead of a drive-ending sack. The Jets would go on to kick a field goal on the drive, tying the game at 20-20.

 

After the game, Rodgers said it should not have been penalized.

 

“It seemed a little ridiculous,” Rodgers said. “Some of them seemed really bad, including the roughing passer on me. That’s not roughing the passer.”

 

On that play The Samoan AJE made the effort to land on his arm so weight was not on Rodgers body.

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/buffalo-bills/aaron-rodgers-ridiculous-penalty-bills/

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

[US Egg]

Honest Aaron speaks the truth....for a change.

[HOUSE]

He should have argued with the officials to change the call

But noooo

[PrimeTime101]

8 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

He should have argued with the officials to change the call

But noooo

Ok i am a full supporter of house, BUT ...   When was the last player that tried arguing on the other teams behalf concerning a penalty. They dont. Why? Cause every team gets bad calls. 

 

[sunshynman]

Why are we still listening to this old fool!