HappyDays Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 7 minutes ago, FireChans said: The greatest offensive coach in NFL history with one of the greatest QBs in NFL history has had a middling offense for 2 seasons straight. Its the talent. I've watched almost as much Chiefs football as I've watched Bills football the past couple years. On the whole their pass catchers and OTs definitely limit their offense, but every time they need a drive or a play they are able to manufacture one. Watching their scheme compared to ours is like watching a different sport. They also have the luxury of playing a very specific brand of football because their defense is always clutch when they need to be. I mean always. But of course I wish we had more talent. Talent wins out over scheme every time. Still I think in spite of that there are positive plays being left on the field because our coaching is below the top tier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 22 minutes ago, FireChans said: Starts with really really bad talent. OC gets held back because he is asked to do more with less. QB starts to play worse because everything around them is worse Just so everyone is aware, the Chiefs currently have the 14th ranked offense in points scored. After having the 15th ranked offense last season. Is it because Any Reid can't coach offense? Obviously not. Is it because Mahomes is not one of the best QB's in the game? Obviously not. Is it because their offensive talent is kinda cheeks? Yup. Why would the Bills with Josh, Brady and the island of misfit players be immune from the same problem? In terms of ypg we are closer to the worst offense in the league this yr than we are to the Chiefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 28 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The more analysis I've seen of the last game the more I come away thinking Brady is a larger problem than previously thought. Nothing about our offense is crisp and nothing is innovative. The WRs aren't being coached to execute on scramble drills. The run scheme is basic. The OL still regularly gets confused on exotic pressure looks. The play calling is predictable. We have no counterpunch when defenses figure out what we want to do. There is a lot of high level offensive coaching throughout the league right now and we just don't have that unfortunately. Not that I really blame Joe Brady. We intentionally did not invest much in the offense so the OC was always going to have his work cut out for him. And then we handed Brady the job without actively searching for better. The offense was set up to fail and now we see the entirely predictable result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 13 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I remained skeptical after the Dolphins game when the common belief was that he had put on a clinic. I let myself be convinced after the Jags game but now we see that team for what it is and everything since then has confirmed my worst fears about him. It's not that he's awful but he's really lacking compared to the true championship contenders. I really don't understand the strategy the past few years. Underinvest in the offensive personnel and also hire green offensive coaches that have zero proof of concept at the NFL level. McD values controllable coordinators. He does not value innovation. Innovation would threaten his control. I know people crap on the Dunne article but the dude IS a control freak. Which many coaches are, but a difference exists between being a detail oriented control freak and scared/defensive control freak. Sean is both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 7 minutes ago, BillsVet said: And it's into the 4th season across 3 coordinators with the same QB that these issues persist. As much as those coordinators weren't great, the guy hiring them has a lot of say into those offenses. Yeah McDermott can't be allowed to just fire another OC and pick his replacement. Dorsey and Brady were his hires after sham interview processes in both cases. At some point the evidence is the evidence. If he can't get that side of the ball right, the league is brimming with coaches that can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro Nimbus Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Just wondering how many threads there have to be devoted to the same question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 28 minutes ago, FireChans said: Starts with really really bad talent. OC gets held back because he is asked to do more with less. QB starts to play worse because everything around them is worse Just so everyone is aware, the Chiefs currently have the 14th ranked offense in points scored. After having the 15th ranked offense last season. Is it because Any Reid can't coach offense? Obviously not. Is it because Mahomes is not one of the best QB's in the game? Obviously not. Is it because their offensive talent is kinda cheeks? Yup. Why would the Bills with Josh, Brady and the island of misfit players be immune from the same problem? Because people on this board Say So!!!!! That’s why!!!!! 😉🤔😒 24 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I remained skeptical after the Dolphins game when the common belief was that he had put on a clinic. I let myself be convinced after the Jags game but now we see that team for what it is and everything since then has confirmed my worst fears about him. It's not that he's awful but he's really lacking compared to the true championship contenders. I really don't understand the strategy the past few years. Underinvest in the offensive personnel and also hire green offensive coaches that have zero proof of concept at the NFL level. They aren’t a threat to McD. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Same Our first three games were the very definition of unsustainable offensive production. Flukey field position/gameflow, big scores w small yardage, and all against what we know know to be three of the worst teams in the league...never felt right to me We keep not taking offensive seriously. There's a lack of talent to @FireChanspoint but there's also this insistence that we make these bare minimum OC hires. And I'm not saying Brady can't or won't be a good coach eventually but I don't think we can afford to keep doing ojt at this point 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I've watched almost as much Chiefs football as I've watched Bills football the past couple years. On the whole their pass catchers and OTs definitely limit their offense, but every time they need a drive or a play they are able to manufacture one. Watching their scheme compared to ours is like watching a different sport. They also have the luxury of playing a very specific brand of football because their defense is always clutch when they need to be. I mean always. But of course I wish we had more talent. Talent wins out over scheme every time. Still I think in spite of that there are positive plays being left on the field because our coaching is below the top tier. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: In terms of ypg we are closer to the worst offense in the league this yr than we are to the Chiefs I am agreeing with you guys lol. What I am saying is that for this iteration of the Bills to work better than the Chiefs (who again, have only been MIDDLING), we needed 2/3 things Brady being a better coach than Reid. Allen playing better ball than Mahomes. Overall offensive talent better than the Chiefs. We all know #3 wasn't possible with this group, this offense is slop. #2 is honestly happening, prior to the Texans game, I think Allen was clearly better than Mahomes this season. And #1 is honestly also not possible. Reid is the best. To @HappyDays point, the Chiefs are also winning more games largely because their defense went dominant. We have a crappier offense AND a crappier defense. It was a predictable losing formula. However, it's easier to say "hire an elite offensive coach," than it is to do it. Ben Johnson looks the part now. I don't know if he's better than Andy. It is easy to say "get better players than Mack Hollins." Extremely easy. Bare minimum easy. So easy, we spent all offseason talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouds Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Just watch the Lions and you kind of realize what’s wrong. Our pass game and run game do not compliment one another. That’s the complete opposite of the Lions, you can’t tell when they running or passing, and their playaction game is even more effective because of it. They have so much space in the pass game, where as with the Bills it feels like we have no room to breath. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: I am agreeing with you guys lol. What I am saying is that for this iteration of the Bills to work better than the Chiefs (who again, have only been MIDDLING), we needed 2/3 things Brady being a better coach than Reid. Allen playing better ball than Mahomes. Overall offensive talent better than the Chiefs. We all know #3 wasn't possible with this group, this offense is slop. #2 is honestly happening, prior to the Texans game, I think Allen was clearly better than Mahomes this season. And #1 is honestly also not possible. Reid is the best. To @HappyDays point, the Chiefs are also winning more games largely because their defense went dominant. We have a crappier offense AND a crappier defense. It was a predictable losing formula. However, it's easier to say "hire an elite offensive coach," than it is to do it. Ben Johnson looks the part now. I don't know if he's better than Andy. It is easy to say "get better players than Mack Hollins." Extremely easy. Bare minimum easy. So easy, we spent all offseason talking about it. I know we agree But you also know the solution. You just laid it out You don't need to hire better than Reid, #1 just needs to close the gap. #2 there is no gap, and if there is Allen can cover it. #3 just needs to be a little better to make up for #1 and that's really the only way we can try to sneak in a SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 40 minutes ago, HappyDays said: The more analysis I've seen of the last game the more I come away thinking Brady is a larger problem than previously thought. Nothing about our offense is crisp and nothing is innovative. The WRs aren't being coached to execute on scramble drills. The run scheme is basic. The OL still regularly gets confused on exotic pressure looks. The play calling is predictable. We have no counterpunch when defenses figure out what we want to do. There is a lot of high level offensive coaching throughout the league right now and we just don't have that unfortunately. Not that I really blame Joe Brady. We intentionally did not invest much in the offense so the OC was always going to have his work cut out for him. And then we handed Brady the job without actively searching for better. The offense was set up to fail and now we see the entirely predictable result. I would put majority of the blame on coaching as well. Brady’s passing offense has not impressed me at this point. Was hoping with full offseason we would see more consistent results but all these slow starts are hurting team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 minute ago, FireChans said: I am agreeing with you guys lol. What I am saying is that for this iteration of the Bills to work better than the Chiefs (who again, have only been MIDDLING), we needed 2/3 things Brady being a better coach than Reid. Allen playing better ball than Mahomes. Overall offensive talent better than the Chiefs. We all know #3 wasn't possible with this group, this offense is slop. #2 is honestly happening, prior to the Texans game, I think Allen was clearly better than Mahomes this season. And #1 is honestly also not possible. Reid is the best. To @HappyDays point, the Chiefs are also winning more games largely because their defense went dominant. We have a crappier offense AND a crappier defense. It was a predictable losing formula. However, it's easier to say "hire an elite offensive coach," than it is to do it. Ben Johnson looks the part now. I don't know if he's better than Andy. It is easy to say "get better players than Mack Hollins." Extremely easy. Bare minimum easy. So easy, we spent all offseason talking about it. I've been saying you need two of three factors to be elite to have a championship level offense - QB, coaching, and supporting cast. Teams like the Vikings and 49ers are doing it without the QB but with elite coaching and talent. For some reason once we got the QB we stopped trying to become elite in either of the other two areas. It would be one thing if we had tried the right strategy but the process failed. That is a little more forgivable. But looking at the resources invested on offense and the OC hires we clearly did not follow the right strategy. Bad strategy, bad process. What do you know, we have a bad offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Just now, HappyDays said: I've been saying you need two of three factors to be elite to have a championship level offense - QB, coaching, and supporting cast. Teams like the Vikings and 49ers are doing it without the QB but with elite coaching and talent. For some reason once we got the QB we stopped trying to become elite in either of the other two areas. It would be one thing if we had tried the right strategy but the process failed. That is a little more forgivable. But looking at the resources invested on offense and the OC hires we clearly did not follow the right strategy. Bad strategy, bad process. What do you know, we have a bad offense. tbh I still think we end up w a 10-15 ish range offense like I told you preseason but woof that's like +115 rn😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Yeah McDermott can't be allowed to just fire another OC and pick his replacement. Dorsey and Brady were his hires after sham interview processes in both cases. At some point the evidence is the evidence. If he can't get that side of the ball right, the league is brimming with coaches that can. This is revisionist history at its finest. Almost everybody wanted Dorsey and the move was largely loved here, and the same thing happened with Brady. So “sham interview” or not, the Bills went with the guy in both cases that pretty much everybody wanted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I know we agree But you also know the solution. You just laid it out You don't need to hire better than Reid, #1 just needs to close the gap. #2 there is no gap, and if there is Allen can cover it. #3 just needs to be a little better to make up for #1 and that's really the only way we can try to sneak in a SB 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I've been saying you need two of three factors to be elite to have a championship level offense - QB, coaching, and supporting cast. Teams like the Vikings and 49ers are doing it without the QB but with elite coaching and talent. For some reason once we got the QB we stopped trying to become elite in either of the other two areas. It would be one thing if we had tried the right strategy but the process failed. That is a little more forgivable. But looking at the resources invested on offense and the OC hires we clearly did not follow the right strategy. Bad strategy, bad process. What do you know, we have a bad offense. 10/10 full marks. Fire everyone, get the best offensive mind on the market with a GM who wants to protect our boy, draft some OL, draft some weapons, and run a "run defense is for losers" defensive scheme. @HappyDays what's really really really funny is that the Bills and the Chiefs have been so different in process and strategy and have still switched places. After 2021, the Bills tried to build up the defense to win games like the 2023/2024 Chiefs. The post-2021 Chiefs have poured resources in receiver to replace the gigantic offensive hole of Tyreek and have ended up the exact team the Bills were trying to build with greater success. Football is full of these little ironies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: 10/10 full marks. Fire everyone, get the best offensive mind on the market with a GM who wants to protect our boy, draft some OL, draft some weapons, and run a "run defense is for losers" defensive scheme. @HappyDays what's really really really funny is that the Bills and the Chiefs have been so different in process and strategy and have still switched places. After 2021, the Bills tried to build up the defense to win games like the 2023/2024 Chiefs. The post-2021 Chiefs have poured resources in receiver to replace the gigantic offensive hole of Tyreek and have ended up the exact team the Bills were trying to build with greater success. Football is full of these little ironies. I'd be in a much better place to appreciate the irony if the results weren't so lopsided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said: This is revisionist history at its finest. Almost everybody wanted Dorsey and the move was largely loved here, and the same thing happened with Brady. So “sham interview” or not, the Bills went with the guy in both cases that pretty much everybody wanted First of all, the fanbase's desires don't apply to the process even a little bit. McDermott owns those decisions. It is a plain fact that Dorsey and Brady were handed their jobs without any kind of competition. Sham interview process is the exact right way to describe it. Second of all, just speaking for myself here but I did not agree with those hires. My thought process for years has been that you have an elite QB in his prime, so you should have no shortage of experienced proven offensive minds banging on the door trying to re-ignite their careers. It's possible McDermott could have struck gold with one of those hires and found his own version of Ben Johnson, but he didn't so now there is no reason to think he has an eye for offensive coaching acumen. Seems to me like he just made safe picks with people that he already knew he could work with, which kind of encapsulates his entire tenure here to be honest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob71 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 After reading many threads like this the past week I am now depressed about the Bills and expect them to get waxed tomorrow night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 someone used the word "stagnant" to describe the overall state of the Bills in a similar thread earlier this week. Its the perfect word. Their are only two questions "'when did the staganation start"? and "what has to happen to make things fresh again?" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Aurelius Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, bouds said: Just watch the Lions and you kind of realize what’s wrong. Our pass game and run game do not compliment one another. That’s the complete opposite of the Lions, you can’t tell when they running or passing, and their playaction game is even more effective because of it. They have so much space in the pass game, where as with the Bills it feels like we have no room to breath. Agree. However Goff has a ton of time in the pocket ... Edited October 13 by Marcus Aurelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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