Chris Simms- good and detailed breakdown of Allen’s struggles vs Houston

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

16 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

LOL. 95%? 95%!!!!!

Well he completed 9 passes so lets start there. Then the first 5 pass attempts there were players open. Sometimes even his very first read. And on some there were multiple players. 

So far we have 8 other completions plus these 5. At this rate, parcing through the A22, you might not even get to 50% of the time. 

First pass: Incomplete. Allen first looks to Samuel in the flat in what looks to be a screen? Nobody within 8 yards of him. Holds the ball. Looks center field and Kincaid is crossing across his face with a step on the LB in man coverage. Hucks the ball to a very covered Hollins down the left sideline. Still nobody near Samuel in the flat. 

2nd pass: Incomplete. One Simms already addressed. Cook beats his man and is the first read. The ball should have been thrown. 

3rd pass: Incomplete: The Hollins throw deep. This play also has Kincaid, Ty Johnson, and Coleman open. 

 

4th pass: Complete to Cook who is very open. 

5th pass: Sack: really strange. This looks like a screen to Samuel. He is there without a defender. Kincaid takes his man out of the play. Josh pump fakes to Samuel for a reason I cannot figure out?  Maybe to take off? Maybe to look down field? Then he takes a sack. I can't stop shaking my head at this one. Like WTF? 

(Forgive me, file size restrictions aren't letting me post screen grabs directly and I am too lazy to resize every picture)
 

A screen is never ever as open as you are describing lol haven’t watched the plays yet but I think you are probably misdiagnosing  some things 

 

that was likely a decoy route to hit a deep shot that Houston would’ve rallied to to make the tackle for a minimal gain if we threw the dumpoff
 

seems like we came into it knowing Texans would flood the middle, shorter stuff and had some interesting plays queued up to take advantage.  We just missed them all for various reasons…Josh being one of them.  It was mostly a slog but the plays were there to win that one 

criticizing the audible to the deep hollins play/the decision to throw to hollins there was absurd.  Josh knew the double move would hit and was 100% correct. Hard to say if it was a missed throw or he was expecting something else as the defender was inside and the ball went outside, but the decision making was spot on 

 

Edited October 10 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It was also pointed out on Cover1 that the Bills did a very poor job of manufacturing guys open this game...rub routes weren't done properly and were ineffective, guys were not executing their assignments properly, etc... looked more like what you would see on the first day of minicamp during installs where guys didn't exactly know what they were doing and didn't have the details down.

 

Essentially the entire offense got an F- for the day as a grade. Simply an unacceptable performance on many levels.

 

Yes. And it’s evident all over the All-22 if anyone cares to look. Some of it comes down to what the Texans did on defenses - they squatted on all the short stuff and that really made it hard because of the way Brady runs the offense with small ball.

 

There was absolutely nothing easy for Josh to take.

 

And the few times someone would finally get open, he was being flushed from the pocket by an unblocked blitzer.

 

Now, one criticism that I think is fair, is toward the end of the game, he started to flush himself from the pocket when he didn’t need to. But I think this is just the natural result of him being pressured relentlessly the first 3/4 of the game. 

 

 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No. That was not a screen. Notice how Kincaid and Hollins don’t block? Samuel was used as a purposeful decoy in order to get the cornerbacks to bite on him, opening up either Kincaid or Hollins for a large gain. Unfortunately, they dont bite. 

 

 

You, like Simms, forget to mention that Allen had moved off the Cook read and into his progression when Cook gets open. By this point, Allen was flushed from the pocket by a blitzer that wasn’t picked up. 

 

 

I think that is ridiculous and I can’t defend PFF on that.

To the first bolded. Fair, but I am challenging your assertion that "95% of the time our receivers were blanketed" and on the first play of the game Curtis Samuel is wide open in the flat. For whatever reason Allen refused to throw the ball to an open Samuel a few times this game. 

To the second, that is part of the problem. Cook was always going to beat the MLB who is moving horizontally when Cook is taking off vertically. There was no reason to move off the first read. 

 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Simms has it right. First half Josh was just flat out bad. He wasn't as bad second half. He was okay second half, nowhere near his brilliant best, but okay. 

then simms has it wrong lol

[bouds]

Josh has to play better, but using screenshots instead of rolling video is the worst thing you can do to break things down.  Freezing a single frame doesn't tell the story.  I do agree with the what he said, but not because of the screenshots, I watched the game back myself.

Edited October 10 by bouds

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes. And it’s evident all over the All-22 if anyone cares to look. Some of it comes down to what the Texans did on defenses - they squatted on all the short stuff and that really made it hard because of the way Brady runs the offense with small ball.

 

There was absolutely nothing easy for Josh to take.

 

And the few times someone would finally get open, he was being flushed from the pocket by an unblocked blitzer.

 

Now, one criticism that I think is fair, is toward the end of the game, he started to flush himself from the pocket when he didn’t need to. But I think this is just the natural result of him being pressured relentlessly the first 3/4 of the game. 

 

 

Yea that last part I think pretty much every qb would do…Rodgers did much the same in that Vikings game earlier in the day.  He doesn’t have the athletic ability so he ended up throwing balls off his back foot rather than scrambling around but it’s theoretically the same situation 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

then simms has it wrong lol

 

Ha, I think he is wrong when he says "second half was no better". But the plays he was breaking down in the video were first half. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

then simms has it wrong lol

 

I think Allen was making some plays out of nothing in the 2nd half when what was supposed to happen didn't and guys weren't executing their assignments properly to help clear out or rub defenders to free up other players in the design of the play...Allen essentially couldn't ever go where the ball was "supposed" to go on the play because either the player didn't win or the assignments needed to be carried out by other players to open up that player weren't being done properly.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I've always appreciated Simms' analysis, he's one of the better national talking heads out there, especially when compared to his seat mate Florio imho. Hopefully the Bills/Josh are paying attention. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ha, I think he is wrong when he says "second half was no better". But the plays he was breaking down in the video were first half. 

I’ve always found Simms to be a dolt even when he had his brief bromance with Josh lol 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

To the first bolded. Fair, but I am challenging your assertion that "95% of the time our receivers were blanketed" and on the first play of the game Curtis Samuel is wide open in the flat. For whatever reason Allen refused to throw the ball to an open Samuel a few times this game. 

To the second, that is part of the problem. Cook was always going to beat the MLB who is moving horizontally when Cook is taking off vertically. There was no reason to move off the first read. 

 

ok i am again going to stand in opposition. look at this play and tell me you see it differently ill listen

 

i don't like the route design on the cook play he singles out. they have Coleman run a little stop route right in front of Cook's wheel where the DB on Coleman has eyes in the backfield the whole time. i dont know if he's supposed to rub Cook's LB but it doesn't do anything except allow Coleman's man to keep his eyes on Allen and cover the route over the top. I think Allen moves off it because Coleman is supposed to run a clear out or the design just isn't good and he knows Coleman's DB can still play the shot to Cook.

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No. That was not a screen. Notice how Kincaid and Hollins don’t block? Samuel was used as a purposeful decoy in order to get the cornerbacks to bite on him, opening up either Kincaid or Hollins for a large gain. Thats why Allen pump fakes to him. Unfortunately, they dont bite. 

 

 

You, like Simms, forget to mention that Allen had moved off the Cook read and into his progression before Cook gets open. He doesn’t have his eyes in the back of his head. By this point, Allen was flushed from the pocket by a blitzer that wasn’t picked up. 

 

 

I think that is ridiculous and I can’t defend PFF on that.

Moving off his progression while Cook already has the LB beaten is one of the reasons it’s a poor decision and a bad play on his part.  He was looking at him while the LB was moving parallel towards cook while cook is already running vertical and is the faster human.  That’s the look they were looking for…..they got it and he bypassed it.  
 

the pass rush wouldn’t have come into play if he just takes the play that was given to him and also had the look we wanted.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I've always appreciated Simms' analysis, he's one of the better national talking heads out there, especially when compared to his seat mate Florio imho. Hopefully the Bills/Josh are paying attention. 

Haha I was posting about how simms is an idiot at the same time but florio is absolutely worse 🤣

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, bouds said:

Josh has to play better, but using screenshots instead of rolling video is the worst thing you can do to break things down.  Freezing a single frame doesn't tell the story.  I do agree with the what he said, but not because of the screenshots, I watched the game back myself.

 

I agree with this.

 

Simms and other NFL players can analyze film better than any of us on here.  

 

It's not just looking to see who is about to be open or open...there is so much more to it than that in which most of us don't even have an intermediate level of understanding.  I have watched film at the HS level and that's it.  I mean there are some obvious ones but to argue with someone that has played the position at the highest level like they don't have a clue, it's fan arrogance.

 

We are fans.  We argue based on mostly emotion and what we "feel".  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Haha I was posting about how simms is an idiot at the same time but florio is absolutely worse 🤣

Note that I left myself a huge out--I said "one of the better national talking heads..." That said, I do appreciate he's played the actual game and knows a thing or 2 about quarterbacking in particular, unlike say, Mr. Wrong or Florio for that matter. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ha, I think he is wrong when he says "second half was no better". But the plays he was breaking down in the video were first half. 

Go back and watch that Cook play tell me I'm wrong I'm open to it

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I agree with this.

 

Simms and other NFL players can analyze film better than any of us on here.  

 

It's not just looking to see who is about to be open or open...there is so much more to it than that in which most of us don't even have an intermediate level of understanding.  I have watched film at the HS level and that's it.  I mean there are some obvious ones but to argue with someone that has played the position at the highest level like they don't have a clue, it's fan arrogance.

 

We are fans.  We argue based on mostly emotion and what we "feel".  

I definitely don’t full disagree with this by any means but I feel like in the interest of time they don’t tell you the full story and will just show you only what proves their overall narrative and then us as fans overly panic.

 

im sure if simms could sit us all down for an hour and go through a game it would be really informative and the plays that maybe go against his overall game judgement would be analyzed too 

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I agree with this.

 

Simms and other NFL players can analyze film better than any of us on here.  

 

It's not just looking to see who is about to be open or open...there is so much more to it than that in which most of us don't even have an intermediate level of understanding.  I have watched film at the HS level and that's it.  I mean there are some obvious ones but to argue with someone that has played the position at the highest level like they don't have a clue, it's fan arrogance.

 

We are fans.  We argue based on mostly emotion and what we "feel".  

 

Perhaps as a former NFL QB he understands how play design and progressions are supposed to work and the rules they have in place usually?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I definitely don’t full disagree with this by any means but I feel like in the interest of time they don’t tell you the full story and will just show you only what proves their overall narrative and then us as fans overly panic.

 

im sure if simms could sit us all down for an hour and go through a game it would be really informative and the plays that maybe go against his overall game judgement would be analyzed too 

 

They aren't going to "educate" us on all 120+ plays in a game.  

 

I don't sit down with them and watch so I can't tell you with certainty but I don't think they just watch a few plays and judge a full game performance.

They watch the film, come away with their evaluation and give us a few examples to prove their point.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

13 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Note that I left myself a huge out--I said "one of the better national talking heads..." That said, I do appreciate he's played the actual game and knows a thing or 2 about quarterbacking in particular, unlike say, Mr. Wrong or Florio for that matter. 

Yea I just made a more detailed post about it responding to someone else haha I think if he could devote more time on air to each game it would be different,  but it’s just the handful of plays that support their narrative and then the narrative.  They are tv personalities too and the narratives are what sells.   He knows more about football than I can learn in 5 lifetimes for sure 😂

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They aren't going to "educate" us on all 120+ plays in a game.  

 

I don't sit down with them and watch so I can't tell you with certainty but I don't think they just watch a few plays and judge a full game performance.

They watch the film, come away with their evaluation and give us a few examples to prove their point.  

That’s not really what I was trying to say haha but I mostly agree with you overall.  I think they get caught up pushing a narrative on air sometimes cuz it’s good tv.  

Edited October 10 by Generic_Bills_Fan