Chris Simms- good and detailed breakdown of Allen’s struggles vs Houston

[Blackbeard]

47 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Good video. For those who think Brady's gameplan shat the bed, watch the video. Josh bears a lot of responsibility for the result.

He is 1st ballot HOF but that was Peterman bad.

You mean sometimes it's personnel and not the coaching??

 

Wow.  Novel idea!

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Einstein played more big-time college and NFL QB than Simms and coached longer with Belichick than the latter, so you have to factor that in.

 

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

you can see that Allen has no trust in his WRs. He's tentative and not making throws he would make if Diggs were on the other end.

I could also see on each of those throws that were highlighted how Josh was also probably being extra safe with CBs or S that might come off their man to make a play. He just had no faith or conviction in the game plan. He was totally lost.

 

He also has always had a maddening tendency to miss deep touch passes. You saw that with the Hollins overthrow (although a good WR would have caught it) and the Kincaid underthrow.  Placement was just off. 

 

I get this to an extent but I often think it goes waaaaaay too far and sometimes to the detriment of the team. 

Not saying that this is Allen. But the far end of the spectrum on this is Aaron Rodgers. It takes a lot of arrogance to not throw to the correct read or the open guy because "trust". That isn't a get out of jail free card for the GB WR corp Rodgers played with either. But he just openly refused to throw to guys at the tail end of his career there. 

At some point you have to give guys a chance and let them accept the consequences and move forward. 

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

100%.

 

His play was a result of non-stop pressure and receivers not gaining separation. 

 

You can make a video of any QB from any game, and focus on a few plays where they missed a guy. The entire video literally showed 3 or 4 plays… out of 60+ the offense ran.

 

Super lazy analysis too (and I like Simms). Like pointing out Cook being open after Allen already moved on from that progression and was flushed to his right by the blitzer. Yeah, with his back turned he’s not throwing to Cook. I suppose he could have thrown it up on first read, hoping Cook beats the guy (and doesn’t drop it).

 

 

And on this play, when Allen decides where to throw (before his wind-up), the receiver was parallel with the CB and Allen saw the safety coming down. Maybe he fits it in. Or maybe it gets picked off. You can tell he is working on not getting INT’ed.

 

 

So yeah, anyone can make a video of 3 or 4 plays (out of 60-something) and take strategic screenshots that ignores the full context of the play.

Just a really poor take-  I guess you’re just too smart for your own good

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Brady would have shredded them, because he was happy taking the short easy passes all game long. He was great at maneuvering in the pocket. He stayed calm.

And Mahomes would’ve hit at least one of the two gimme TDs to Kincaid or Hollins. I’m not even counting the potential TD Cook could’ve had in the pic being circulated here, I don’t trust him to catch that ball like a WR. The other QB greats have a floor that is higher than Josh’s, so saying they’d all look just as bad is silly. It’s also saying plays weren’t available to be had which is wrong.

 

It’s games like these that tarnish Allen’s MVP prospects. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Im not sure what you mean - no one is arguing that his play looked poor. The point is that it’s only because of the o-line and receivers. No QB in NFL history would have looked good with the compliments we put out there on Sunday. Not Brady. Not Manning. Not Mahomes. Not Montana. They all would have stunk. But it wouldn’t have been from their doing - it would have been from the pieces around them failing them.

Come on MENSA, you know what I mean. 

 

They are specifically talking about Allen’s play.  
 

PFF in which you have a history saying they’re great.  Yes or no, are they wrongly grading Allen?

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Good post, but you realize that you're arguing with someone ready to die on the Allen-was-not-to-blame hill, right? 

 

Some posts aren't just for the person I am responding too. Ha!

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Brand J said:

 

 

It’s games like these that tarnish Allen’s MVP prospects. 

100%

Edited October 10 by NewEra

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

What's wrong is he is a human and plays badly sometimes. There is no reason to start believing in conspiracy theories.

I still say something happened on that bad hit in Baltimore.

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@Einstein

 

Do you still feel the minority is right that Allen didn’t play bad?

 

Simms has it right. First half Josh was just flat out bad. He wasn't as bad second half. He was okay second half, nowhere near his brilliant best, but okay. 

[Brand J]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

I still say something happened on that bad hit in Baltimore.

Remember when we blamed a supposed GB concussion for his play in subsequent weeks? It’s all very familiar.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

24 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yep, he struggled. I saw at least two dropped interceptions for him, too. And the protection was not as bad as everyone was saying. He bailed the pocket too soon and both the Ravens and the Texans were waiting for that and broke to him quickly to not allow him time to scramble and find a throw.

 

Josh can shred teams from the pocket, but every so often he reverts to his old self of bailing from the pocket instead of stepping up in the pocket, or sensing pressure when it isn't there.

 

Now, sometimes there was pressure, especially early. If I am a defensive coach playing Buffalo, I am doing everything I can to get pressure on him early in a game, because he'll be rushed and uneasy for the rest of the game whether there is pressure or not.

I agree about the bad part but I don’t think either of those teams did a particularly good job stopping him from rolling right to buy extra time to the point where it very nearly lost Houston the game.  Can’t remember who it was maybe Coleman but he came back towards Josh from the back of the end zone on one of those post Houston fumble plays, the defender slipped and then made a great effort getting back into the play. 

 

those roll right scramble drill

type plays are rehearsed and aren’t ALWAYS bad.  A lot of our biggest plays come from doing that.  But yea if he could’ve spent a considerable more time in the pocket and bailed early that’s absolutely bad

 

teams really should be forcing him left the end of that game was like inches from ‘see what happens when you let Josh roll right’ and now it’s ’the guy can’t do anything when he rolls right’ 🤣

 

Edited October 10 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SoonerBillsFan]

Just now, Brand J said:

Remember when we blamed a supposed GB concussion for his play in subsequent weeks? It’s all very familiar.

I feel he is playing tough guy and its going to finally bite him in the arse.  

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Come on MENSA, you know what I mean. 

 

They are specifically talking about Allen’s play.  
 

PFF in which you have a history saying they’re great.  Yes or no, are they wrongly grading Allen?

 

I think that you are misunderstanding my viewpoint. I’m not saying his play didn’t look poor. The point is that it’s only because of the o-line and receivers. No QB in NFL history would have looked good with the compliments we put out there on Sunday. Not Brady. Not Manning. Not Mahomes. Not Montana. They all would have stunk. But it wouldn’t have been from their doing - it would have been from the pieces around them failing them.

 

Analogy; It’s like if I asked you to pour water into a cup, but kept hitting your arm as you poured it. Are you doing a bad job at pouring water in the cup? Well, more water spilled on the table instead of the cup. You must have been terrible at pouring water in a cup that day! Or… someone was hitting your arm as you were pouring it, and your performance appears poor because of it.

 

You and Simms can take 4 screenshots (out of 60) and claim he was a bad player that day. But it doesn’t make it so. It sure is easy hanging fruit to do so though, isn’t it? I’d hazard to guess that those saying he played poorly haven’t even reviewed the 22. Because if they had, they would be asking “where did I want Josh to throw this ball?”

 

Consider this: Those 4 examples Simms showed were the BEST examples he could find the entire game of Allen playing poorly - and even 2 of those 4 were poor analysis (see my first post).

Edited October 10 by Einstein

[zow2]

43 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I remember Dan Orlovsky last year said that Allen needs to “grow up,” after that Jets performance. Said he literally holds the future of the staff in his hands with every throw he attempts. This game against Houston was another one of those mind-numbingly bad games he seems to have every year and I don’t get it. A 7 year vet who at this point has seen every defense you want to throw at him, by all accounts is very smart, can literally make any throw on the field, but is still getting taken to the wood shed mentally. Regardless of whatever offensive system he’s in, or who he’s surrounded by, his floor should be much higher than this and I don’t understand why it’s not. If you could be a fly on the wall in the box where Brady calls the game, no doubt he’s said at least once “he (Josh) is killing us.”

 

The Grow up aspect to me is stop throwing 50/50 balls (or worse actually) on 3rd and 5, etc..   Run, get the first down, or throw an accurate short pass.  He was woefully inaccurate last Sunday to the point i really thought he was playing hurt from the Baltimore game.

[MJS]

9 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I agree about the bad part but I don’t think either of those teams did a particularly good job stopping him from rolling right to buy extra time to the point where it very nearly lost Houston the game.  Can’t remember who it was maybe Coleman but he came back towards Josh from the back of the end zone on one of those post Houston fumble plays, the defender slipped and then made a great effort getting back into the play. 

 

those roll right scramble drill

type plays are rehearsed and aren’t ALWAYS bad.  A lot of our biggest plays come from doing that.  But yea if he could’ve spent a considerable more time in the pocket and bailed early that’s absolutely bad

 

teams really should be forcing him left 

 

I didn't mean to make it seem like Josh rolling right is always bad. No, it is documented to be when he is at his most lethal. But defenses know that and prepare for it too. And both Houston and Baltimore did a good job at rushing to him and not giving him clean throws. They hit him a lot when he rolled out.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I think that you are misunderstanding my viewpoint. I’m not saying his play didn’t look poor. The point is that it’s only because of the o-line and receivers. No QB in NFL history would have looked good with the compliments we put out there on Sunday. Not Brady. Not Manning. Not Mahomes. Not Montana. They all would have stunk. But it wouldn’t have been from their doing - it would have been from the pieces around them failing them.

 

Analogy; It’s like if I asked you to pour water into a cup, but kept hitting your arm as you poured it. Are you doing a bad job at pouring water in the cup? Well, more water spilled on the table instead of the cup. You must have been terrible at pouring water in a cup that day! Or… someone was hitting your arm as you were pouring it, and your performance appears poor because of it.

 

You and Simms can take 4 screenshots (out of 60) and claim he was a bad player that day. But it doesn’t make it so. It sure is easy hanging fruit to do so though, isn’t it? I’d hazard to guess that those saying he played poorly haven’t even reviewed the 22. Because if they had, they would be asking “where did I want Josh to throw this ball?”

 

Those 4 examples Simms showed were the BEST examples he could find the entire game of Allen playing poorly - and even 2 of those 4 were poor analysis (see my first post).

 

I'm sorry if you don't think Josh was bad in the first half on Sunday I don't know what to tell you. Did he get a ton of help? No. But Josh Allen played poorly and most of that poorly was on Josh Allen. Especially first half. I'm a little different than Simms on the second half in that I think Josh generally made better decisions and more accurate throws, but the first half there is just no getting around it. He was bad. And I have watched the all22. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Pretty lazy analysis by Simms IMO. No one is going to listen to a podcast where someone talks about how bad Mack Hollins is though. The O-line/receivers share at least partial responsibility on 3 of the 4 plays he highlighted

 

1) If Allen throws this immediately to Cook he's probably tackled short of the line to gain. By the time Cook is open the pocket has collapsed and Josh is rolling to his right

 

2) Deep throw to Hollins - we had an entire thread on this. It's not a good throw by Josh, but the average NFL WR still makes that catch 

 

3) 3rd and 13 - Simms says Coleman should've been the target. Josh ultimately rolled out to his right and passed to Kincaid for an easy 1st down, but failed to make a routine catch

 

4) Deep throw to Kincaid - Simms says it's a bad throw and decision by Josh. I'll agree it's not a good throw, but if Josh put another 6 inches on the throw it's probably a TD so how is that a bad decision? He's supposed to throw it to the guy that has the safety crashing down on him instead?

[CincyBillsFan]

Another thread telling us that Allen was awful, terrible even Peterman like.  Just what we need.  And bashing Einstein an ardent Allen supporter is just to good to pass up.  I like Simms but his review is not the be all end all of what happened on Sunday.

 

I agree that Allen was bad.  But not awful as he didn't turn over the ball. But in the end so what?  Hell even in games the Bills win and the O looks great folks come on 2BD to trash Allen over 0ne or two bad passes. 

 

So going forward what's the biggest issue facing the Bills:

 

*  Allen having a bad day. 

 

*  The WR's having a bad day and not getting much separation.

 

*  The dropped passes by Kincaid.

 

*  The O line having a bad day.

 

*  The D having a bad start to the game putting the Bills in a hole.  After all in the last two games the Bills D has surrendered 5 TD's on 6 drives.

 

*  The coaches having a bad day.

 

Allen having an off day is not even in the top 5 issues coming out of this game IMO.  So why are so many obsessing over it? 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I think that you are misunderstanding my viewpoint. I’m not saying his play didn’t look poor. The point is that it’s only because of the o-line and receivers. No QB in NFL history would have looked good with the compliments we put out there on Sunday. Not Brady. Not Manning. Not Mahomes. Not Montana. They all would have stunk. But it wouldn’t have been from their doing - it would have been from the pieces around them failing them.

 

Analogy; It’s like if I asked you to pour water into a cup, but kept hitting your arm as you poured it. Are you doing a bad job at pouring water in the cup? Well, more water spilled on the table instead of the cup. You must have been terrible at pouring water in a cup that day! Or… someone was hitting your arm as you were pouring it, and your performance appears poor because of it.

 

You and Simms can take 4 screenshots (out of 60) and claim he was a bad player that day. But it doesn’t make it so. It sure is easy hanging fruit to do so though, isn’t it? I’d hazard to guess that those saying he played poorly haven’t even reviewed the 22. Because if they had, they would be asking “where did I want Josh to throw this ball?”

 

Consider this: Those 4 examples Simms showed were the BEST examples he could find the entire game of Allen playing poorly - and even 2 of those 4 were poor analysis (see my first post).

It does feel pretty semantic-y at times…he played bad because he was in a bad situation is still him playing bad and if he was in a better situation maybe he doesn’t play as bad but he did is my in betweener take haha 

 

The missed plays are all amplified when the available possible good plays are limited.  It’d be happening with mahomes’ weeks 1-4 now too but they’re winning anyway because their defense is stupid good 😂