The one Tweet that perfectly sums up the Bills' offensive struggles right now

[DapperCam]

14 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

To Thurman's point, this is the way the league is trending at the moment. Here's the most recent game from the league's best QB, who alongside an all time great offensive mind in Andy Reid currently leads a 5-0 Chiefs team:


 

 

Seems that all Allen has to throw to is tight windows the past 2 weeks. Quite the stark difference.

[PBF81]

24 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

To Thurman's point, this is the way the league is trending at the moment. Here's the most recent game from the league's best QB, who alongside an all time great offensive mind in Andy Reid currently leads a 5-0 Chiefs team:


 

 

 

So your in essence implying that Cook's consistency is on par with Mahomey's consistency.

 

If you think so.  

 

 

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So your in essence implying that Cook's consistency is on par with Mahomey's consistency.

 

If you think so.  

 

 

Huh?

I was replying to your comment griping about "Taking the strongest-armed QB in the league and a QB that can make any throw, and putting him into a short-yardage game-managing passing game".

 

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

 

To Thurman's point, this is the way the league is trending at the moment. Here's the most recent game from the league's best QB, who alongside an all time great offensive mind in Andy Reid currently leads a 5-0 Chiefs team:


 

 

should we just post random charts of good QB performances? Because i have better ones and they dont look much like that lol

 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Huh?

I was replying to your comment griping about "Taking the strongest-armed QB in the league and a QB that can make any throw, and putting him into a short-yardage game-managing passing game".

 

 

Your post that I quoted mentioned absolutely nothing about that.  

 

 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

should we just post random charts of good QB performances? Because i have better ones and they dont look much like that lol

 

The discussion at hand is about how sometimes the type of defensive strategies that are being employed in the NFL right now dictate that the intelligent and effective thing to do is to dink and dunk, because that's what the defense is giving you.

The graphic I posted is meant to show that the bills are not some crazy idiots that are forcing poor big-armed Josh Allen into a shorter passing game -- opposing defenses are often doing that with the way they defend the Bills offense. That even the great Mahomes consistently posts spray charts showing tons of short passing, and that his average depth of throw has been getting shorter year by year.

If you want to post random graphics that aren't really relevant to the discussion at hand, though, be my guest.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

The discussion at hand is about how sometimes the type of defensive strategies that are being employed in the NFL right now dictate that the intelligent and effective thing to do is to dink and dunk, because that's what the defense is giving you.

The graphic I posted is meant to show that the bills are not some crazy idiots that are forcing poor big-armed Josh Allen into a shorter passing game -- opposing defenses are often doing that with the way they defend the Bills offense. That even the great Mahomes consistently posts spray charts showing tons of short passing, and that his average depth of throw has been getting shorter year by year.

If you want to post random graphics that aren't really relevant to the discussion at hand, though, be my guest.

no

 

the Bills are crazy idiots for thinking they can duplicate something Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes, and Travis Kelce are doing to moderate success with Joe Brady, Josh Allen and Khalil Shakir

 

and you and cover1 pretending they deliberately crafted this amazing cover2 beating offense (despite zero evidence of that) and somehow just forgot that teams can also run single high is the cherry on top of this nonsense

[Logic]

39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

no

 

the Bills are crazy idiots for thinking they can duplicate something Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes, and Travis Kelce are doing to moderate success with Joe Brady, Josh Allen and Khalil Shakir

 

Holy straw man, Batman.

I have no interest in continuing to argue against things that you just made up out of whole cloth. Have a nice night.

Edited October 9 by Logic

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

so how convenient teams aren't running it suddenly against us! of course that must be why we're struggling lmfao miss me w this

 

you know what beats cover2? nico collins and dk metcalf. ceedee lamb. justin jefferson and jordan addison. samuel+aiyuk+kittle+shanahan. reid and kelce and rice and mahomes. ben johnson and st brown/jameson williams. you want to sit there and tell me you knew they were going for some innovative cover2 beating offense w keon coleman, khalil shakir, and joe brady be my guest lol

Ceedee smoked our cover 2 last year 😆guys like Hill and Waddle too?   !  Guys like Harrison and McBride. 

Mahomes and Reid beat cover 2 two seasons in a row by dinking and dunking, improvising and running the ball.  
 

most of those elite playmakers listed are getting paid rookie contract or are playing with a QB on a rookie contract.  
 

Coming from you, of course their vision was “ball control and conservative O”.  While it was obvious to many that we were looking to attack the short passing game/rac that we’ve lacked for years.  It’s been discussed- but the mcd hater has to put his negative spin to say that his plan was to have a crappy offense without good WRs. 
 

the talk of the offseason was how the entire league now plays cover 2 shell 80% of the time.  You beat that by meticulously picking it a part 4-10 yards at a time.  And we did that’s the first 3 games.  Baltimore confused us and we had no answer.  Houston didn’t play the shell and we had no answer (especially with no Shakir).
 

maybe we should have kept diggs?  The guy that would’ve taken down our locker room brick by brick.  After we traded him, maybe we should’ve gone into the world of make believe where we can just snag 2 great WRs and add them to our team.  It’s a salary cap transition year in which they pieced what they could together while creating room for next season and thereafter-  some people realize that. Some people don’t.  
 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

jags for sure but dolphins also iirc played us in single high a bunch

 

granted they didn't do a great job but the book is out

 

Yea Jacksonville's issue was playing us in a ton of man so that Josh knew what he was getting every snap. They mixed their single high with their two deep pretty well. It was not being willing (or able?) to show us any kind of disguised zone coverages that got them shredded.

Edited October 9 by GunnerBill

[Billzgobowlin]

Is it scheme or execution?  Were people able to make the plays and just didn't or were the players not in the right position for success?

[Sweats]

I personally would like to see JA sit in a comfortable pocket and just keep lobbing long bombs downfield to open the Jets game......like, i'm talking one bomb after the next to Coleman, give him some 50-50 balls and set the tone of a game for a change.

If JA lobs a few INT's, deal with it and move on.......every long throw won't be an interception, but it dictates to the Jets and every other team that we are not afraid to lob a few up and let the big rook make a play.

 

Absurd theory, of course, but the O hasn't been working lately (we all know why) and this is how i would start to change it up.......make teams afraid of our playcalling.

[colin]

all of this is very true, but the absolute basis of football is the big uglys causing havoc.  no separation, so speed or talent, bad scheme and worse playcalling, along with allen laying an egg two weeks in a row is putrid, but our biggest issue is up front.

 

the sad thing is, our OL can actually block, and even pass protect.  but we are so awful as a team (allen has to recognize and figure stuff out pre snap) at dealing with blitzes, fake pressure, and stunts.  bmore and houston are good pass rushing teams, but you just can't fall off as hard as we have vs pressure.  guys not getting open and not being able to run screens is a big downer, but basic pre snap reads and being set up for what the d front is doing is missing.  running when they know it and passing when they know it just compounds the issue.

 

for deep passes, most teams that do well only really attempt them when there are blown coverages, off of play action, and when the d is not expecting it.  allen is cheeks at deep throws, but we do not set him up to succeed.

[BobbyC81]

11 hours ago, Logic said:

Agreed. They're not threatening on the perimeter or on the deep ball.

I'd be loading up the box, spamming the middle of the field, and keying on the run game.

Prove you can beat me outside. Prove you can beat me deep.

As for Buffalo countering that: MVS, for whatever anyone may think of him, didn't suddenly become slow or unable to get open deep. Keon Coleman was brought in to be a jump ball specialist downfield and to be open even when he's covered (which he's done a bit of already). Curtis Samuel is not slow, either. The Bills potentially HAVE the horses to make defenses pay for this type of strategy, but they have not yet done so.

Personally, I'd like to see a mix of 12 personnel with Coleman and MVS as the outside receivers (which I think presents the run threat and opens up play-action possibilities short and intermediate to our talented TEs and deep to the WRs) and 11 personnel with Coleman, Samuel, Shakir, and Kincaid and Cook as the tailback. Pair these with plenty of motion and play-action. This, to me, is the way to make our offense dangerous again.

in the first couple of games, the Bills were showing that motion with the wide receivers behind Josh and a few times that receiver was wide open.  I don’t recall them doing that much this last game.

[BillsVet]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

"It's too late for 2024"? In the middle of week 6?

 

Um, no. No, it's not.

 

And what they calculated is that with the cap situation as it is and the personnel the way it is after losing Diggs, this was the best way they could allocate resources while freeing up and improving the cap situation for the future. 

 

They install the offense across months of the off-season and in training camp with personnel typically suited to it.  You don't pivot to something different that will work (based on how defenses are now playing you) without making some significant changes in-season.  And once deep into the off-season, you've got the roster you're going to play with.  Specifically the talent gap they have at WR.  You might deal for one, but can't trade out 2-3 of them at this point.  

 

As for this cap situation...it's the product of their own doing.  Bad contracts, over-spending on UFAs who didn't deliver, and some 2-3 underwhelming drafts add up over time.  Their issues were coming there and that was before trading Diggs and taking a 31M cap hit. 

[Robert Paulson]

10 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Seems that all Allen has to throw to is tight windows the past 2 weeks. Quite the stark difference.

Josh has reverted back to hero ball these last 2 weeks, especially against Houston.

 

Several reasons for it- horrible pass pro, poor play design  but nonetheless Josh had open receivers he passed up to hit a honerun and prove Diggs wrong.

 

Sometimes he is his own worst enemy. 

1 hour ago, BobbyC81 said:

in the first couple of games, the Bills were showing that motion with the wide receivers behind Josh and a few times that receiver was wide open.  I don’t recall them doing that much this last game.

Teams are playing more man against us now but we still should be the motion. It is like a pre snap rub play against man.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Why would we not at least look at Micheal Thomas? I mean what do we have to lose at this point? Him at 70% is probably better than anything we have after Shakir. You got to try something here 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BobbyC81 said:

in the first couple of games, the Bills were showing that motion with the wide receivers behind Josh and a few times that receiver was wide open.  I don’t recall them doing that much this last game.

 

It hasn't been a solution in the last two games:

 

I'm still of the opinion that as a fanbase we are searching for solutions that don't exist with the current personnel. Defenses know that there are very few things we can do well and it isn't hard to shut those things down when we have no counterpunch.

[Logic]

 

 

[HappyDays]

Joe Buscaglia's take:

 

Quote

After watching the Bills’ passing offense sputter through a close loss to the Texans, it does not inspire much confidence in general. But in fairness, the one thing to point out is that it won’t always be that bad. Allen is too talented to have another 9-for-30 performance and there were several moments where his receivers let him down. Mack Hollins did not have enough speed to bring in a catchable deep ball. On a separate incompletion, Hollins continued to drag across the field opposite of the way Allen was running even after Allen reared back to throw the ball to him. Then there was the ball that bounced off the back of Keon Coleman’s head because the rookie wasn’t looking. Throw in two Dalton Kincaid drops, which are usually not an issue for him, and you’ve got an error-filled afternoon even before the conceptual issues.

 

However, how the Texans continued to defend Allen and the passing offense as the game progressed showed an institutional flaw in some of the general operating procedures the Bills have used in the first five games. The Texans weaponized the Bills’ lack of separation skills at receiver and Allen’s default coping mechanism to try and make something out of nothing, which helped fuel one of the worst single-game performances of Allen’s career.

 

The Texans tried to mix up a variety of defensive play calls, but they all shared one thing in common — they were not scared of getting beat for a big play by the receivers. They used strategies like Cover 1 over the top with man-to-man coverage underneath. They used a simple four-man rush while keeping a spy on Allen several times, which resulted in a rollout by Allen with a linebacker on his doorstep. The Texans also worked in some three-man rush with a Cover-3 look and eight dropping defenders. And just to put the Bills on the back foot, they were unafraid to blitz Allen with five, sometimes six rushers to get him off his spot while playing man coverage on the back end.

 

Teams know the Bills have a good offensive line when pass blocking straight up, and they continued to do so against the Texans. So the best way to get heat on Allen with a healthy offensive line is to send additional rushers. It quickened Allen’s pace to his throwing decision, which the quarterback had previously conquered. Teams began to realize blitzing Allen wasn’t an ideal solution because he could really hurt them with his arm. But he also had a much different caliber of receivers available to him back then. In this game, without anyone working open quickly enough, Allen didn’t have those quick answers to the blitz that he’s grown accustomed to having. And that proved to be a huge issue Sunday.

 

As the game unfolded, Allen didn’t look like himself. It looked like he was pressing. He was occasionally throwing with an uneven base, which impacted his accuracy. He left the pocket before the threat of pressure was present sometimes. It was probably rooted in thinking he had to be the one to make a big play in a big moment since it wasn’t working otherwise. The Texans didn’t force Allen to roll to his right. He did so willingly because throughout his playing career when he rolls right, big plays tend to follow.

 

But when he rolled right to get out of structure and to a scramble drill, the big play never followed. That is why the Bills’ lack of separation and trustworthy assets at receiver matters in a big way. Without them getting away from defenders and into the open air, Allen has only a handful of options — to throw it away, force a throw or put his body at risk by tucking the ball and running. And we all know Allen doesn’t love to throw it away, especially when the team needs a play down the stretch.

 

He also breaks down the almost INT that Allen threw back across his body. It highlights the issues I've noticed with our WRs on scramble drills. On that play while Allen breaks the pocket right, MVS continues running in the opposite direction and never tries to come back to make himself an available target. Meanwhile Samuel is just standing still way downfield letting himself be covered. Compare that to Shakir against the Ravens where he leaked behind the coverage and we got a big play.

 

Something has to change. No answers exist on the roster. Getting Shakir back will certainly help but it's not enough to take this team where it wants to go.