Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Tua collapsed multiple times after hitting his head. What symptoms did Josh Allen show?

Tua passed the protocol at the time and played the next week.

 

Here's what the NFL and NFLPA said, after Tua suffered his "first" concussion the next week against the Bengals.

 

As Tagovailoa recovered from the concussion suffered against Cincinnati, the NFL and NFL Players Association said in a joint statement that steps should have prevented him from reentering against the Bills. While "the step-by-step process outlined in the concussion protocol was followed," the statement said, "the outcome in this case was not what was intended."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoas-latest-concussion-know-153800584.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAEs-D0qaNx2IMr9rw1RwT5rFQU-kvIo5osiEp-7Eg7VmXh857bzfsJ1U4CVvgYpVrc0iSy6DM2rL8D-3Abix5iJTNRpSXfjGXmg9e_oaLhKiA_zlOVfmsnaSUAt9q7OM3dkxLgBTY1phWFzXYr6PCrciHxZBzcfn4I3O2E3GiFb

 

So the reason I want to know your stance on the Dolphins is really simple. Because Tua cleared protocol with a back injury. No one was "sure" they did anything wrong until after the fact.

 

If you opined that Tua's injury was "obvious" in hindsight, but that the Bills are completely in the clear because Josh Allen cleared their "protocols" (that have failed with disastrous consequences in the past), I would find that contradictory at best.

 

I don't know if Josh had a concussion or not. I don't know if he was knocked out or not. I know from watching that I was personally suspicious he was concussed. I also know that he was reported as "cleared" which hasn't meant much historically when it comes to the NFL.

 

So the definitive nature of "He was cleared! He obviously didn't have a concussion" fall apart with even basic scrutiny.

 

Obviously that's my opinion. Hope the kid is okay. Hope he doesn't exit with another head injury that makes this discourse look really really silly after the fact. We have unfortunately seen it before.

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Tua passed the protocol at the time and played the next week.

 

Here's what the NFL and NFLPA said, after Tua suffered his "first" concussion the next week against the Bengals.

 

As Tagovailoa recovered from the concussion suffered against Cincinnati, the NFL and NFL Players Association said in a joint statement that steps should have prevented him from reentering against the Bills. While "the step-by-step process outlined in the concussion protocol was followed," the statement said, "the outcome in this case was not what was intended."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoas-latest-concussion-know-153800584.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAEs-D0qaNx2IMr9rw1RwT5rFQU-kvIo5osiEp-7Eg7VmXh857bzfsJ1U4CVvgYpVrc0iSy6DM2rL8D-3Abix5iJTNRpSXfjGXmg9e_oaLhKiA_zlOVfmsnaSUAt9q7OM3dkxLgBTY1phWFzXYr6PCrciHxZBzcfn4I3O2E3GiFb

 

So the reason I want to know your stance on the Dolphins is really simple. Because Tua cleared protocol with a back injury. No one was "sure" they did anything wrong until after the fact.

 

If you opined that Tua's injury was "obvious" in hindsight, but that the Bills are completely in the clear because Josh Allen cleared their "protocols" (that have failed with disastrous consequences in the past), I would find that contradictory at best.

 

I don't know if Josh had a concussion or not. I don't know if he was knocked out or not. I know from watching that I was personally suspicious he was concussed. I also know that he was reported as "cleared" which hasn't meant much historically when it comes to the NFL.

 

So the definitive nature of "He was cleared! He obviously didn't have a concussion" fall apart with even basic scrutiny.

 

Obviously that's my opinion. Hope the kid is okay. Hope he doesn't exit with another head injury that makes this discourse look really really silly after the fact. We have unfortunately seen it before.

Actually, the two situations are different enough to have different opinions about both. Tua hit his head and only his head. He then collapsed multiple times while trying to get up.

 

Allen had his ankle rolled badly on the play he went down and immediately started grimacing and kicking his feet in pain. I thought he might have hurt his shoulder when it happened live (I was at the game), but he said it was also his chest, later on. I had zero suspicions that it was a head injury when it happened. Not sure what they said on the broadcast, but I bet they were claiming a head injury, which impacts everyone's opinions who watched the broadcast.

 

The NFL tightened up their protocols after the Tua situation, which clearly admits fault, even if they don't say it overtly.

 

The two situations could not be more different.

[FireChans]

31 minutes ago, MJS said:

Actually, the two situations are different enough to have different opinions about both. Tua hit his head and only his head. He then collapsed multiple times while trying to get up.

 

Allen had his ankle rolled badly on the play he went down and immediately started grimacing and kicking his feet in pain. I thought he might have hurt his shoulder when it happened live (I was at the game), but he said it was also his chest, later on. I had zero suspicions that it was a head injury when it happened. Not sure what they said on the broadcast, but I bet they were claiming a head injury, which impacts everyone's opinions who watched the broadcast.

 

The NFL tightened up their protocols after the Tua situation, which clearly admits fault, even if they don't say it overtly.

 

The two situations could not be more different.

Yeah, I just watched the play again.  Immediately grimacing and kicking his feet? You mean after he goes limp and doesn't protect his (lied about) broken hand at all?  The defender has his legs in his grasp.

 

Also, do you think it's kinda suspicious that the dude has said every injury except the one would keep him out of the game?

 

 

I don't know if you've hand a broken hand or not. But conscious, non-head trauma people usually protect their broken hands, not let them drag along the floor.

 

I hope you're right FWIW. I hope we don't see this video plastered all over everything about how it was clearly a lie that Allen's ankle/chest were just hurt after bouncing his head off the turf and going limp.

[MJS]

45 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah, I just watched the play again.  Immediately grimacing and kicking his feet? You mean after he goes limp and doesn't protect his (lied about) broken hand at all?  The defender has his legs in his grasp.

 

Also, do you think it's kinda suspicious that the dude has said every injury except the one would keep him out of the game?

 

 

I don't know if you've hand a broken hand or not. But conscious, non-head trauma people usually protect their broken hands, not let them drag along the floor.

 

I hope you're right FWIW. I hope we don't see this video plastered all over everything about how it was clearly a lie that Allen's ankle/chest were just hurt after bouncing his head off the turf and going limp.

Anther conspiracy theory. Everyone lied. Allen lied about his hand. Everyone is in on it, I guess.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Anther conspiracy theory. Everyone lied. Allen lied about his hand. Everyone is in on it, I guess.

You know the concussion protocol is largely in place to protect players from themselves, right?

 

Like to take it out of their hands if they want to play with a concussion or not?

 

Do you think Tua was screaming, "I have a concussion, I don't want to go back out there?" when he had his weird "back" injury that was so so so so obviously a concussion in hindsight?  I don't. I think he said, "I'm good to play." 

 

I guess it would be a CRAZY CONSPIRACY to think the toughest QB in football would say some nonsense about his chest/ankle (wild coincidence to have two different injuries so low in your body after smashing your head in the turf) so he could keep playing.

 

I wish I had as much faith in the process as you did. It's not like we haven't seen it fail before.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Yeah, I just watched the play again.  Immediately grimacing and kicking his feet? You mean after he goes limp and doesn't protect his (lied about) broken hand at all?  The defender has his legs in his grasp.

 

Also, do you think it's kinda suspicious that the dude has said every injury except the one would keep him out of the game?

 

I don't know if you've hand a broken hand or not. But conscious, non-head trauma people usually protect their broken hands, not let them drag along the floor.

 

I hope you're right FWIW. I hope we don't see this video plastered all over everything about how it was clearly a lie that Allen's ankle/chest were just hurt after bouncing his head off the turf and going limp.

 

I thought it was clear as day that he was having a quick turf nap, and not for the first time.

And clear enough that anybody arguing that he wasn't out, is just whistling past the graveyard.

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I thought it was clear as day that he was having a quick turf nap, and not for the first time.

And clear enough that anybody arguing that he wasn't out, is just whistling past the graveyard.

Man, we just keep agreeing. Does this mean I'm getting tapped as the next new mod?

[Simon]

Just now, FireChans said:

Man, we just keep agreeing. Does this mean I'm getting tapped as the next new mod?

 

I wouldn't curse anybody with that hat.

Well maybe somebody; but probably not you. 

 

[Doc]

50 minutes ago, MJS said:

Anther conspiracy theory. Everyone lied. Allen lied about his hand. Everyone is in on it, I guess.

The Bills only care about other players on the team who might have concussions…

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Tua collapsed multiple times after hitting his head. What symptoms did Josh Allen show?

 

Imaginary.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

The Bills only care about other players on the team who might have concussions…

it’s only a problem when other teams do it

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

it’s only a problem when other teams do it

Not a problem. Other teams can do with their players what they wish. 

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not a problem. Other teams can do with their players what they wish. 

If it wasn’t a problem some  threads would not exist. A lot of posters felt it was a problem when Miami gaslit about Tua….

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

If it wasn’t a problem some  threads would not exist. A lot of posters felt it was a problem when Miami gaslit about Tua….

 

Then that's their problem...

[Mr. WEO]

37 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Then that's their problem...

 

who's "they"?

[Beck Water]

On 10/8/2024 at 1:42 PM, mjd1001 said:

Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury, despite the QB passing a concussion check

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/sport/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-chris-nowinski-spt-intl/index.html

 

He's not wrong

Edited Monday at 03:17 PM by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

On 10/8/2024 at 2:14 PM, Saxum said:

 

Has he been checked for CTE or this just publicity to raise donations for Concussion Legacy Foundation?

He has quite a bit of conflict of interest.

 

Huh?

 

The man has a PhD in Neuroscience from Boston University.  He saw what he saw.  Several of the rest of us saw the same.

 

Where is the conflict of interest here?  Do we seriously want Allen to get Tua'd if the Jets knock him out for a second time in a week?

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

He's not wrong

 

35 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Huh?

 

The man has a PhD in Neuroscience from Boston University.  He saw what he saw.  Several of the rest of us saw the same.

 

Where is the conflict of interest here?  Do we seriously want Allen to get Tua'd if the Jets knock him out for a second time in a week?

 

He saw a limited video.  Again the NFLPA investigated and determined a) he was not unconscious and b) he was properly evaluated for a concussion.  They have no reason to lie.

[DasNootz]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

He saw a limited video.  Again the NFLPA investigated and determined a) he was not unconscious and b) he was properly evaluated for a concussion.  They have no reason to lie.

They have billions of reason to lie... or at least turn a blind eye.

 

I'm not a neurologist, and I clearly understand there's a difference between the NFL and youth/highschool sports...  but I would be irate if my child was put back into a game after what I saw with my eyes. 

 

 

[Beck Water]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

He saw a limited video.  Again the NFLPA investigated and determined a) he was not unconscious and b) he was properly evaluated for a concussion.  They have no reason to lie.

 

I believe that Allen was properly evaluated for a concussion according to the protocol.  Whether the protocol evaluation is worthwhile depends somewhat upon the player.   Remember it was determined that the proper protocol was followed with Tua in 2022.

Agree to disagree on whether it could be determined independently that Allen was "not unconscious" and that the NFL/NFLPA have "no reason to lie"