Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury

[ALG1130]

Josh's concussion from 2019. He did actually go into protocol for this one. I am sharing because his legs were moving this time as well.

[Mango]

13 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Sure looked like he suffered a head injury on the flea flicker play vs Ravens. Banged his head on turf pretty bad on that play. Sure hope it wasn’t two concussions in two weeks. 

 They’re actually 7 days apart. 

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

killed the dolphins for doing this (not out of concern for the player's health of course) then defend the bills when they do it right back lol

 

never change football fans smdh

Oh, absolutely.  The faux outrage is just as bad in sports as it is in politics.  I do remember at the time though wishing Tua wouldn't miss time because I thought Bridgewater was better.  Then he got concussed the following game.

[CoudyBills]

14 hours ago, Augie said:

I think he passed by being “perky”. Is that a medical term? 

Smelling salts will do that

10 hours ago, Malazan said:

They can't be hired without the NFLPA.

Like the one in Miami was?

[davefan66]

Hit his head hard, but doesn’t mean he absolutely had a concussion.  His eyes looked fine, no change in his gait once he got up.  Other players have had that blank state when concussed, Josh didn’t. I’d be surprised if he didn’t have a concussion after that TBH, but he was cleared.
 

As for the smelling salts? Josh has used them for years. I think he made a comment about them at one point, can’t recall what he said.  There was. TBD thread on it.

 

Smelling salts thread

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

..but the TV doctors were able to diagnose it.. 🙄

..and I'm sure you can tell me what the baseline tests that you think are so easy to fake pass are without looking them up..

 

 

 

It's not TV doctors we've literally heard players admit to doing this. I think it was Peyton manning? I know I'm not the only one here who's seen this.

 

And boom. This was 13 years ago. You're living under a rock if you think this idea hasn't spread past 1 player ever 

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/manning-admits-underperforming-on-baseline-concussion-tests-09000d5d81f83fbc

Edited October 9 by BillsShredder83

[BobbyC81]

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am 1000000% for player safety.  But...I have some issues here:

1. Hitting your head does not guarantee a concussion.  
2. Allen did not seem to have any lingering affects at any point as he walked off the field to when he came back into the game or through his play.  Not even in the post game interview either.  
3. Allen can be heard talking about his chest like he more got the wind knocked out of him.  Granted, he could be just saying that trying to stay in the game, but that is why he goes to the tent to be checked by an independent 3rd party head trauma specialist.
4. He was cleared to go back in by that independent specialist, which ever since Tua's issues in 2022 it is VERY difficult to get cleared now where even the slightest suspicion and they will error on the side of caution and not let them back in.  

So I am not sure what someone watching from a TV thinks they know more about than the 3rd party impartial specialist who directly examined him and cleared him to return when they are incredibly strict now since the Tua issues in 2022.    

 

 

Regarding lingering affects, his decision making on that last possession was suspect.

[Sweats]

10 hours ago, chongli said:

 

We are in first places in the East and the other three teams are in various states of disarray. We are currently fourth in the AFC and would host Denver in the WC. If Josh is really ok medically, then what is the problem?

 

 

 

There's no problem, however, if our O keeps playing the way they are and Brady can't figure out schemes to create plays, then it may be a long season......and i'm okay with that.

[BillsFan2313]

2 hours ago, ALG1130 said:

Josh's concussion from 2019. He did actually go into protocol for this one. I am sharing because his legs were moving this time as well.

 

His legs were moving after being down for a few seconds. On this hit, it seemed to be instantly as he went down. 

[DrPJax]

10 hours ago, Sweats said:

I have no issue with this and if JA has to sit out a game or two, i'm okay with that too......look at the long term. If we are spinning our wheels this year and not really going anywhere as a rebuild/reload, then preserve JA as much as you can and get ready for next season.

 

I've made my peace with this season and perhaps some of you should too.

     It’s not an issue this week as he could clearly do a full protocol and pass it; he has no reported symptoms so he would have time to clear the formal protocol without issue.  But the problem was THAT DAY HE WAS UNCONSCIOUS WITHOUT any real DOUBT as witnessed about his limp left wrist which , already injured , was not acting reflexively as it would by a conscious athlete.  That has to be seen by the independent spotter and then he automatically is NOT ALLOWED FURTHER PARTICIPATION THE SAME DAY OF ANY LEVEL OF CONCUSSION AND  smelling salts , while  bypassed by Josh , were offered  unfortunately and can mask symptoms and alter testing for post concussive symptoms.  
 

     The main issue was whoever cleared him , imo opinion , could not do the required physical exam in addition have enough time to document  and perform  the standardized testing as certain parts of the neuro test ( most still use the scat 5  clinical form to standardize results and it has the most research behind it. You can google it as a layperson and see for yourself the actual form used and see if you honestly believe he was in that tent long enough to do the protocol , which has certain required time lapse memory checks ). It is not just the old tell me time , where are you , who is the president type of exam.  It’s a scored protocol that must be completed in full to evaluate ones concussion risk.  It can be done on an iPad and compared to the persons prior baseline. It can be done in a tent , but it does require time and usually it’s preferred to be in a quiet environment ,  It’s just very coincidental he finished the protocol completely just in time for second down after the turnover.   Hmmmm?  
 

I was watching the game , and even  turning a blind eye to the obvious that he was unconscious, which in this instance there were multiple  witnesses  see he experienced an associated classic whiplash / head banging off the turf , coup / contrecoup , or whatever  you want to call it  type head/ brain injury  ; yet, he was on the bench quickly after he came around ,  and mostly they were looking at his chest and not doing a neuro exam until he was issued into the tent as far as all video evidence pointed too. 
But let’s  say somehow they completed a true full protocol exam in the very limited time he was in the tent ( it seemed like 5-10 min at most in the tent but I could be wrong) , how can they explain ignoring the obvious loss of consciousness?  So THAT IS NOT  on the Bills imo, it’s whoever cleared him to return after the obvious LOC that he suffered.  Athletes are not allowed to participate further the day of a concussion to prevent second impact syndrome, while rare , can be life threatening.
       This is about the competence of the independent examiner who failed to do their job competently.  That really is something that should be investigated. It’s not much better than Tua being allowed to return in that notorious heat game as a reported back injury causing him to stagger. This is what the NFL is paying for and accepting as good neurological/ medical care for one of its brightest stars ?  That’s pretty shameful as long as this protocol has been in place. 
 

        Also , it’s not about playing Monday ( unless he is having symptoms like headaches but not reporting it to any staff ) because with no symptoms he would just progress every 24 hours thru the protocol. It’s about many neurologists and sports med docs seeing that on tv and knowing that was a violation of the standard of care for concussions and the unnecessary risk Josh was exposed to.  
      Additionally, Sal was saying on his podcast that all guys use smelling salts and it’s no big deal.  That is not true for someone with a head injury and like the author stated , they should not be offered to players being evaluated for recent  head  trauma. .  A non injured player can use them if he wants to , but Sal is passing along misinformation casually as just normal sideline behavior.

       I like Sal , but he is misinformed on this issue and he was attempting to justify Josh going in was ok because he passed the protocol,and  “ everybody has used smelling salts at some point , they’re used all the time “  etc, and  because Sal is the first reporter who supposedly gets injury info on the sideline and he was adamant there was no issue  as he was right there, and as the  first reporter who gets player injury status in his sideline role, he  saw no issue with the process. Sal is a good reporter , but when you are reporting misinformation  about things like smelling salts  use for a head injured player , saying Josh did the required protocol and was cleared , he is just saying the company line on a subject out  of his area of expertise.  Frankly  that doesn’t help protect players in the future.   This was a bad look for the Bills but mostly the NFL. This is not about the division title , SB, etc, and tho I haven’t given up on the season , as fans we should just want to see a great young man and qb have a long safe future.   Go bills.  Please don’t let the jests drag you into the abyss !   😊✌️

[Chicken Boo]

16 hours ago, Saxum said:

 

Has he been checked for CTE or this just publicity to raise donations for Concussion Legacy Foundation?

He has quite a bit of conflict of interest.

 

Nowinski had his WWE career ended by a string of concussions and has been on the forefront of concussions in sports for a while now.  

 

He fully understands the dangers and is quite aggressive with his assertions.  

 

It's going to be funny 20 years from now when this issue is taken far more seriously than it is now with everyone claiming, "We didn't know any better," when they absolutely did but CHOSE to ignore the experts.  

Edited October 9 by Chicken Boo

[Cubanmist]

17 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury, despite the QB passing a concussion check

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/sport/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-chris-nowinski-spt-intl/index.html

I’m 100% with this, even if it meant Allen missing a few games this year. Safety is always more important that football.

 

This will even expose Trubisky to prove what type of QB we all know he is. Puts pressure on Beane for being cheap and bringing in someone who loves to float balls. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

58 minutes ago, Cubanmist said:

I’m 100% with this, even if it meant Allen missing a few games this year. Safety is always more important that football.

 

This will even expose Trubisky to prove what type of QB we all know he is. Puts pressure on Beane for being cheap and bringing in someone who loves to float balls. 

 

So you want to lose so you can be like "see, beane's terrible".  Got it.  Bigtime fan. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Everyone’s anatomy is different and concussions are far from an exact science.  Based on Joshes after the fact reaction I think it’s ignorant to conclude he 100% had a concussion.  Albeit, his head hitting the turf looked nasty, everyone responds differently to head trama. Moreover, I have a hard time believing the MD under the blue tent was willing to risk his/her license to practice just to screen JA.  

What I saw was his head hit and him completely go limp and not have the normal anatomical reaction of putting his hand out to brace himself. Instead it was bent forward and on the wrist. He also didn't move for a few  seconds. Technical concussion or not, his as was out for at least a few seconds.  If you are knocked out for even 3 seconds, you suffered some brain trauma, sorry no way around that.

 

Maybe he looked and talked fine in the tent, when the Bills medical staff looked at the film, it warrants an MRI.  I dont get why fans wouldn't want every possible check to make sure Josh is ok. I mean is the desire to have him out there every snap and every game THIS year worth longer term damage?  And Ill Die on this hill, he is NOT ok after the hit in Baltimore, everyone but many Bills fans see this.

1 hour ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

She blinded me with...

[Mr. WEO]

no no no...he just got the "wind knocked out of him"--many medical experts right here on TBD made that clear!

 

well, at least McD didn't claim it was a "back injury".  everyone knows that means "concussion", amirite?

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Nowinski had his WWE career ended by a string of concussions and has been on the forefront of concussions in sports for a while now.  

 

He fully understands the dangers and is quite aggressive with his assertions.  

 

It's going to be funny 20 years from now when this issue is taken far more seriously than it is now with everyone claiming, "We didn't know any better," when they absolutely did but CHOSE to ignore the experts.  

 

what's going to be funny 20 years from now?

 

anyway, every player clearly understands the risks of playing tackle football---now more than at any time in the league's history.  No one can claim "we didn't know any better".

 

A player's ONLY method of avoiding neurological injury that may affect them in the short and long terms, is to not choose not to play.  They are free to make they choices, fully informed. 

 

 

[Ray Stonada]

If an independent doctor decides they need to hold Josh out for a game or two, I am fine with that. He's carried our team for five years straight.

 

Other guys on the team would have to step up. And that might be good for the team once he gets back.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Regarding lingering affects, his decision making on that last possession was suspect.

Yet it was in line with all his bad decisions and poor play the entire game prior to that too.

[Chicken Boo]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

what's going to be funny 20 years from now?

 

anyway, every player clearly understands the risks of playing tackle football---now more than at any time in the league's history.  No one can claim "we didn't know any better".

 

 

 

 

The denial is going to be funny.

 

You can't all out escape the risks, but you can mitigate it by following the current concussion protocol or wearing the more protective helmet design.  

 

You're absolutely right that it is a choice.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

The denial is going to be funny.

 

You can't all out escape the risks, but you can mitigate it by following the current concussion protocol or wearing the more protective helmet design.  

 

You're absolutely right that it is a choice.

 

denial of...what, exactly?

 

there's no chance that a thin helmet padding supplement will save the vast majority of the players who are destined to suffer from such illnesses.  Certainly the players don't think so.  also, the concussion protocols are, by definition, after the fact.  they can't prevent future concussions.

[bigK14094]

imho, allen should wear one of those pillow head helmets.