Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

He saw a limited video.  Again the NFLPA investigated and determined a) he was not unconscious and b) he was properly evaluated for a concussion.  They have no reason to lie.

 

Here is the statement:

 

 

[Saxum]

You do not need to have a professional degree to be an irrational ranter but it helps get you support and visibility.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, DasNootz said:

They have billions of reason to lie... or at least turn a blind eye.

 

I'm not a neurologist, and I clearly understand there's a difference between the NFL and youth/highschool sports...  but I would be irate if my child was put back into a game after what I saw with my eyes.

 

The NFLPA has reason to lie about its own players?

 

And sure if he were your child, you'd be upset.  But Josh, and Tua, and any other player, is a grown adult and is responsible for his actions.  If Tua wants to continue playing despite his 3rd concussion in less than 2 years, with 2 of them so severe he was posturing, that's his decision.

 

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I believe that Allen was properly evaluated for a concussion according to the protocol.  Whether the protocol evaluation is worthwhile depends somewhat upon the player.   Remember it was determined that the proper protocol was followed with Tua in 2022.

Agree to disagree on whether it could be determined independently that Allen was "not unconscious" and that the NFL/NFLPA have "no reason to lie"

 

Tua didn't get checked for a concussion in the Bills game.  That's why the NFL and NFLPA said he wasn't properly evaluated for one and why the protocol was changed.

 

And as those posters who were at the game said, he was moving his legs, which can't be seen in that video clip.  The Bills' trainers and players were there and ostensibly talking to him.  Again the Bills care about the safety of their players and the NFLPA has no reason to lie to help the Bills/NFL out.

[BarleyNY]

51 minutes ago, Doc said:

Josh, and Tua, and any other player, is a grown adult and is responsible for his actions.  If Tua wants to continue playing despite his 3rd concussion in less than 2 years, with 2 of them so severe he was posturing, that's his decision.

 

I agree with the caveat that the person is mentally healthy and capable when making their decision. There can be no valid consent by someone who is impaired. 

[Beck Water]

On 10/14/2024 at 2:53 PM, Doc said:

Tua didn't get checked for a concussion in the Bills game.  That's why the NFL and NFLPA said he wasn't properly evaluated for one and why the protocol was changed.

https://nflpa.com/press/joint-nfl-nflpa-statement-on-review-of-tua-tagovailoa-concussion-protocol

 

Quote

The Club medical team and the UNC properly viewed the video of the play in question as required by the protocol and engaged in a locker room examination of Mr. Tagovailoa before the player was cleared to return to play. The Team physician cleared Mr. Tagovailoa, following consultation with the UNC. The steps set forth in the Concussion Checklist were, therefore, conducted.

 

Wanna explain what was done differently for Allen?

 

The NFL/NFLPA in fact said that Tua WAS properly evaluated for concussion according to the protocol, but that ataxia wasn't, at that time, considered a "no go".  So that changed afterwards

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

https://nflpa.com/press/joint-nfl-nflpa-statement-on-review-of-tua-tagovailoa-concussion-protocol

 

 

Wanna explain what was done differently for Allen?

 

The NFL/NFLPA in fact said that Tua WAS properly evaluated for concussion according to the protocol, but that ataxia wasn't, at that time, considered a "no go".  So that changed afterwards

It’s moot at this point.  He’s fine. 

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

It’s moot at this point.  He’s fine. 

 

so's Tua, right?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

so's Tua, right?

 

Tua isn't playing and Josh is, so evidently not.

Edited October 16 by EasternOHBillsFan

[Saxum]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

so's Tua, right?

 

Tua's getting a paid vacation to recover.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Tua isn't playing and Josh is, so evidently not.

 

and when he starts playing in 2 weeks or so?  He'll be fine no?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

and when he starts playing in 2 weeks or so?  He'll be fine no?

 

Josh:

 

Sep 29, 2019

Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1

Allen left his team's Week 4 game against the New England Patriots in the fourth quarter with a head injury. He was available for the next game.

 

Tua:

 

Sep 29, 2022

Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1

Tua was stretchered off in a Week 4 loss to the Bengals.

Dec 25, 2022

Head Cranial Concussion Grade 3

Tua missed the remainder of the regular season. He didn't clear concussion protocol until around January 31.

Sep 12, 2024

Head Cranial Concussion Grade 2

Tua suffered a concussion toward the end of the third quarter in Week 2, 2024 against the Bills when hit during a run. He was placed on IR.

 

Three concussions in 2 1/2 seasons... that's the official record of his head injuries. That's all we can go by.

[Saint Doug]

This is a very weird thread. No sure why it’s still going. I couldn’t care less what a neuroscientist says about concussions. They are not clinicians, nor have had any contact with patients in a clinical setting. If a neurologist or a neurosurgeon pipes up, then they’ll have my attention. But this guy, just because he may have looked at some brain sections under a microscope to get grants, doesn’t pass muster as an expert. 
 

btw, I’m a physician and would trust the word of an ICU nurse over a neuroscientist. 

Edited October 17 by Saint Doug

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

so's Tua, right?

 

Hardly.  Three concussions in 2 years with 2 of them so severe he postured says he's not fine.  Who knows if/when he'll even be back?

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Hardly.  Three concussions in 2 years with 2 of them so severe he postured says he's not fine.  Who knows if/when he'll even be back?

 

he can be back not before week 8.  All reports are that he is coming back.  There have also been reports that he has been seen by multiple neurologists who he says have said he can play.  Who knows.

 

Point is, your franchise QB gets his bell rung, as soon as they can, any team is putting him back out there....

[Just Jack]

13 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

This is a very weird thread. No sure why it’s still going. I couldn’t care less what a neuroscientist says about concussions. They are not clinicians, nor have had any contact with patients in a clinical setting. If a neurologist or a neurosurgeon pipes up, then they’ll have my attention. But this guy, just because he may have looked at some brain sections under a microscope to get grants, doesn’t pass muster as an expert. 
 

btw, I’m a physician and would trust the word of an ICU nurse over a neuroscientist. 

 

He does have a doctorate...

Chris Nowinski, PhD | Concussion Legacy Foundation (concussionfoundation.org)

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

he can be back not before week 8.  All reports are that he is coming back.  There have also been reports that he has been seen by multiple neurologists who he says have said he can play.  Who knows.

 

Point is, your franchise QB gets his bell rung, as soon as they can, any team is putting him back out there....

 

Of course.  But in Tua's case, the Dols will be holding their collective breath every time he takes a hit.  It was a massive mistake giving him the contract they did.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Of course.  But in Tua's case, the Dols will be holding their collective breath every time he takes a hit.  It was a massive mistake giving him the contract they did.

 

perhaps, but none of that is germane to my point.

[Doc]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

perhaps, but none of that is germane to my point.

 

 

Tua is a sidebar to the original topic, which was Josh.  His situation is entirely different and not our problem.

 

As for Josh, he played another game and took several hits and didn’t get concussed, much less posture. He was and still is fine. If symptoms develop, it’s up to him to let the team know and hold himself out.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

 

Tua is a sidebar to the original topic, which was Josh.  His situation is entirely different and not our problem.

 

As for Josh, he played another game and took several hits and didn’t get concussed, much less posture. He was and still is fine. If symptoms develop, it’s up to him to let the team know and hold himself out.

 

Nope.  That's not how the concussion protocol works.  Its intent is the opposite of what you just described. Clearly it is meant not to depend on patient self-reported symptoms...

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nope.  That's not how the concussion protocol works.  Its intent is the opposite of what you just described. Clearly it is meant not to depend on patient self-reported symptoms...

 

I know.  I'm saying that if he experiences symptoms after he is checked-out by them, it's up to him to report it.  If he doesn't, that's on him.  But apparently he was and still is fine.