Neuroscientist wants the NFL to investigate Josh Allen’s apparent head injury

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

 

So to paraphrase"

1. Josh Allen is lying and after being knocked silly and concussed was coherent enough to fake being ok

2. Independent Neurologists hired by the player's union are lying or incompetent

3. Team medical staff are lying or incompetent

 

But you, with your years of expertise and being a paragon of virtue, know the truth. Did your own research, did you?

The independent neurotrauma professional is hired by both the NFL and NFLPA, but other than that…..

[Malazan]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The independent neurotrauma professional is hired by both the NFL and NFLPA, but other than that…..

They can't be hired without the NFLPA.

Edited October 8 by Malazan

[Casey D]

Who the ***** is Chris Nowinski?  Can anyone call for an investigation?  How about Donald Duck?

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, Malazan said:

They can't be hired without the NFLPA.

yes. both agree on the hires

[transplantbillsfan]

I mean I definitely thought it was a head injury, but he was cleared by an independent doctor. As for the smelling salts and the entire event, go listen to Sal Capaccio's podcast from today. He was right on the sideline when all of this happened and also brought up the fact that smelling salts are consistently and commonly used by a lot of players before and during the games.

[paulmm3]

I'm a physician, this guy is also a physician but a busybody who needs to keep his opinions based on reviewing TV footage to himself.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

What differences is it if I agree with it or not?  

 

One thing I didnt knows, it "appeared he was offered smelling salts"?  that i didn't know

 

He was offered them but refused.

 

52 minutes ago, Savage said:

It was obvious that he was out, although very briefly.

 

it shouldn’t matter , should it?

 

just because he didn’t go all Tua, doesn’t mean he wasn’t in a bad state.

 

Someone who was at the game said that Josh was moving his leg(s) the entire time.  IOW he wasn't out.

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not in the least. Not sure why you'd think that based on my post, either. 

because you seemed to be implying that since it's not possible to 100% accurately diagnose CTE until after death any further investigation isn't useful

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He was offered them but refused.

 

 

Someone who was at the game said that Josh was moving his leg(s) the entire time.  IOW he wasn't out.

you can move and be 'out', happens all the time

 

im guessing if he was and he had been standing he would have looked a lot like tua wobbling off the field

[Locomark]

I was out cold playing hockey for a minute or so and I didn’t get a concussion. They aren’t always tied together. The Neurologist is required to be independent from the team so this wasn’t a team call.

[chongli]

5 hours ago, Sweats said:

.

I've made my peace with this season and perhaps some of you should too.

 

We are in first places in the East and the other three teams are in various states of disarray. We are currently fourth in the AFC and would host Denver in the WC. If Josh is really ok medically, then what is the problem?

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, Locomark said:

I was out cold playing hockey for a minute or so and I didn’t get a concussion. They aren’t always tied together. The Neurologist is required to be independent from the team so this wasn’t a team call.

While loss of consciousness isn’t a sure sign of a concussion, the NFL’s concussion protocol is to automatically put a player in it if they are knocked unconscious.

[K-9]

33 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

because you seemed to be implying that since it's not possible to 100% accurately diagnose CTE until after death any further investigation isn't useful

Well, it’s not possible to positively diagnose CTE until after death. My point was that a medical provider cannot and should not pronounce a definite finding unless he can accurately test for that finding and we just aren’t there yet with CTE.

 

By all means, symptoms of any issue should be treated and I’m all for that. But different conditions can present the same symptoms. Best to be 100% certain imo. 

[Malazan]

18 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

While loss of consciousness isn’t a sure sign of a concussion, the NFL’s concussion protocol is to automatically put a player in it if they are knocked unconscious.

 

So none of the medical professionals that were present and evaluated Allen believe he lost consciousness and Allen himself says he didn't. So unless you're insinuating that they're all lying.. how is this relevant?

[GoBills808]

Just now, K-9 said:

Well, it’s not possible to positively diagnose CTE until after death. My point was that a medical provider cannot and should not pronounce a definite finding unless he can accurately test for that finding and we just aren’t there yet with CTE.

 

By all means, symptoms of any issue should be treated and I’m all for that. But different conditions can present the same symptoms. Best to be 100% certain imo. 

of course

 

to my understanding there are a bunch of different neurodegenerative diseases that are basically indistinguishable from CTE until an autopsy can be performed as you say

 

but it doesn't mean you can't make reasonable assumptions wrt nfl head trauma and i definitely don't think it means you should just throw your hands up and say 'well it can't be 100% diagnosed until after death'

[MJS]

57 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He was offered them but refused.

 

Someone who was at the game said that Josh was moving his leg(s) the entire time.  IOW he wasn't out.

I was at the game, too, and nobody thought he had been knocked out. All the in-stadium replays showed him moving around and hitting the ground as if in pain. And the replay of his ankle turning sure looked like it hurt.

 

I was more concerned that it was a shoulder or clavicle injury.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

If Josh can't play because of typical symptoms from a concussion later in the season, then the whole NFL will be under the microscope and the doctor who evaluated him will probably be fired and there will be an investigation.

 

I'm no hypocrite...I felt Tua had a concussion during the "back injury" game and the Dolphins covered up a concussion, and the Bills had better not be doing this here. This man has laid it on the line for us for years now and he deserves far better than that.

[Livinginthepast]

Concussion or not. Allen went 0-5 on completions after he came back into the game. I've never had a concussion in my life but I think its safe to say that having one or getting your head slammed off the turf would impede your throwing ability and/or accuracy. Definitely affect your decision making and reading of the defense but it seems that the Bills never once thought about keeping Allen on the sidelines because he might have been concussed and didnt seem to think that it would affect him despite the fact that his day was already horrendous. And of course we have a completely incapable backup who cannot be trusted with anything but handing the ball off, so why is he on this team?

[Malazan]

Just now, Livinginthepast said:

Concussion or not. Allen went 0-5 on completions after he came back into the game. I've never had a concussion in my life but I think its safe to say that having one or getting your head slammed off the turf would impede your throwing ability and/or accuracy. Definitely affect your decision making and reading of the defense but it seems that the Bills never once thought about keeping Allen on the sidelines because he might have been concussed and didnt seem to think that it would affect him despite the fact that his day was already horrendous. And of course we have a completely incapable backup who cannot be trusted with anything but handing the ball off, so why is he on this team?

 

He was 9-30 for the whole game... Do concussions cause retroactive problems in the past?

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

you can move and be 'out', happens all the time

 

im guessing if he was and he had been standing he would have looked a lot like tua wobbling off the field

 

If you look up the symptoms of a concussion, Josh objectively exhibited none of them after he got up off the field and in the post game presser.  Whether he subjectively had things like headache, nausea +/- vomiting,  I don't know.  Which is why I believe that taken with him moving while down meant he wasn't unconscious and the reason he was cleared and still hasn't been placed in concussions protocol.

 

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

I was at the game, too, and nobody thought he had been knocked out. All the in-stadium replays showed him moving around and hitting the ground as if in pain. And the replay of his ankle turning sure looked like it hurt.

 

I was more concerned that it was a shoulder or clavicle injury.

 

Thanks for the perspective.  And as I've said before, if he'd been knocked out, there would have been more urgency by the training staff.  And the Bills surely would have ruled him out for the game.  Why some think the Bills suddenly don't care about their players is puzzling.