McDermott needs a end of game coordinator

[Sweats]

If this idea actually works, like this is going to open up so many work ideas for my job.......i could really use an end of day coordinator to stay on top of things when i'm ready for my late afternoon nap in my cubicle.

 

At first, i thought the notion was a farce, but it actually sounds brilliant......mind you, i've got a sore tooth and about four Tylenol 3's deep, so just about everything sounds pretty good right now, however.....

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep, and one had that success with Ryan Tannehill and the other with Josh Allen.

They said, “average QB play be damned!! Let’s get a guy in there to play the worst 1/2 of football in the history of the game. At that point we will go back to the average guy.” It, predictably, failed miserably.

 

Anyone that watches/scouts college football knew how awful Peterman was. Go back and read @GunnerBill on Peterman before the draft. It was one thing if the Bills had a talented project (think Spencer Rattler) behind Taylor. Maybe you say, “that talent upgrades them from average.” With Peterman, he’s one of the least talented prospects ever.

They also were apparently all in on Mason Rudolph if they hadn't been able to get Allen ...

[Beast]

49 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep, and one had that success with Ryan Tannehill and the other with Josh Allen.

They said, “average QB play be damned!! Let’s get a guy in there to play the worst 1/2 of football in the history of the game. At that point we will go back to the average guy.” It, predictably, failed miserably.

 

Anyone that watches/scouts college football knew how awful Peterman was. Go back and read @GunnerBill on Peterman before the draft. It was one thing if the Bills had a talented project (think Spencer Rattler) behind Taylor. Maybe you say, “that talent upgrades them from average.” With Peterman, he’s one of the least talented prospects ever.

GunnerBill also aid Josh Allen was trash.

 

And, yet, Peterman had had a 7 year NFL career.

Edited October 8 by Beast

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

GunnerBill also aid Josh Allen was trash.

 

And, yet, Peterman had had a 7 year NFL career.

…and that doesn’t change the fact that Peterman has no talent and played the worst half ever. That’s not for debate. It predictably failed. It was an awful idea before and a worse idea after.

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Because Taylor wasn’t exactly Joe Montana. 

Make a cogent argument that Nathan Peterman ever deserved to start an NFL game, let alone multiple.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Anyone that watches/scouts college football knew how awful Peterman was. Go back and read @GunnerBill on Peterman before the draft. It was one thing if the Bills had a talented project (think Spencer Rattler) behind Taylor. Maybe you say, “that talent upgrades them from average.” With Peterman, he’s one of the least talented prospects ever.

 

And when I repeated it post draft I got as much heat for not like that as for not liking the Josh pick a year later. Seriously it was ridiculous the following Peterman had on here before he played a down. I was, thankfully, very wrong on Josh. But my take on Peterman was exactly as it played out. College QBs with rag arms get tagged as "smart and accurate" almost by default. He was neither smart, nor accurate. And his arm is barely pop warner standard.

[HappyDays]

Since this has turned into the semi-monthly Fire McDermott thread, here's what I'll say - I think we will know by the trade deadline if McDermott and Beane feel any pressure about their jobs. If they make a trade for a legit WR that will tell me they feel some sort of pressure to turn things around. If instead they keep the status quo which means Mack Hollins continues to be a regular part of the offense which ensures Josh Allen getting the snot beat out of him for the next three months, that tells me they have been told they have nothing to be worried about. The arguments on McDermott have been hashed out a million times and nothing that happens this season is going to change anyone's mind. But there's only one person in the entire world whose opinion on the subject actully matters and I am very curious to know what that messaging has been like.

[TurfToeJam]

Has it been confirmed the chain of events at the end of the Houston game?  

 

Possibilities:

1)McDermott told Brady what to do

2) McDermott had no contact and Brady called those plays

3) Communications breakdown between McDermott/ Brady

4)Allen went rogue (not thinking clearly =>concussion (?))

 

 

 

[<bills4life>]

8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Bill looks good in blue.  He looks younger 

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Since this has turned into the semi-monthly Fire McDermott thread, here's what I'll say - I think we will know by the trade deadline if McDermott and Beane feel any pressure about their jobs. If they make a trade for a legit WR that will tell me they feel some sort of pressure to turn things around. If instead they keep the status quo which means Mack Hollins continues to be a regular part of the offense which ensures Josh Allen getting the snot beat out of him for the next three months, that tells me they have been told they have nothing to be worried about. The arguments on McDermott have been hashed out a million times and nothing that happens this season is going to change anyone's mind. But there's only one person in the entire world whose opinion on the subject actully matters and I am very curious to know what that messaging has been like.

And that’s the elephant in the room. I just don’t think pegula has the b@**$ to do it.  Bills are competitive and he is making money.  

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, TurfToeJam said:

Has it been confirmed the chain of events at the end of the Houston game?  

 

Possibilities:

1)McDermott told Brady what to do

2) McDermott had no contact and Brady called those plays

3) Communications breakdown between McDermott/ Brady

4)Allen went rogue (not thinking clearly =>concussion (?))

 

 

 

 

If anyone goes back and watches the replays and then also listens to the interviews of both McD and Brady since the game...well I think you can fill in the blanks.

 

Admittedly my initial live reaction was all about McD.  But to be honest, I think its clear as day this was on none other than Josh Allen.  Let me elaborate:

1. On 2nd down deep shot to Hollins, Allen MUST get positive yards on this play and has 2 and really 3 options short all open at various times.  Hollins appears to be running a clear out and even seems to be surprised the ball is even coming his way.  Looks to me Coleman was the primary read with Hollins clearing out that side and Allen has him on the break on the comeback. 
   1. BUT - Brady said in his interview that "Allen thought he saw something with Hollins" which is very telling that it was Allens decision to break script and take the shot based on that and how Brady continued to talk about it.  Pressed to throw Allen under the bus he declined to comment and keep it in house, but he also said that he needs to do a better job there as an OC on what options are out there essentially.  As in don't give Allen the temptation is how it came across to me by having a deep clear out option.  
   2. Furthermore, McD blew up on the side line right after that pass, he was pissed.  This was not a McD call and Allen blew a critical moment in the game with that decision.  Instead of either getting the ball in play where someone like Coleman or Kincaid could make the catch for 5+ yards and possibly make a guy miss or break a tackle and just get the first down, we faced 3rd and 10 with Allen having to risk the game again droppig back into the endzone where a sack loses the game.  And furthermore, not getting any yards on 3rd down puts us in a bad position punting for our own endzone and gives them the ball back with 3 timeouts and very close to FG position for a team with a kicker with a huge leg.  

As I said since the game, this was Allens worst game I have seen since his rookie season.  And while I was all over McD initially, and he did take responsibility as he should as a HC, I do not think for a second it was McD or Brady that wanted those shots and Allen being Allen thought he saw someting and broke script.  

 

One final note on why I think it was Allen...there was no value in taking the shot from the coaches perspective.  32 seconds with no timeouts needing nearly 60 yards to get a good FG try, throwing over the middle and not to a sideline accomplishes nothing when you have no timeouts.  So much time would come off the clock and you would still be a long ways away from FG range now with very little time left.  Its such an unrealistic option and Brady called every player short except for one in Mack and wasn't even a route where he could get out of bounds if he made the catch.

 

This IMHO this is pretty clear that it was all on Allen.  And I love Allen, so it pains me to say that.  But Allen had a really bad game overall.

[Malazan]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If anyone goes back and watches the replays and then also listens to the interviews of both McD and Brady since the game...well I think you can fill in the blanks.

 

Admittedly my initial live reaction was all about McD.  But to be honest, I think its clear as day this was on none other than Josh Allen.  Let me elaborate:

1. On 2nd down deep shot to Hollins, Allen MUST get positive yards on this play and has 2 and really 3 options short all open at various times.  Hollins appears to be running a clear out and even seems to be surprised the ball is even coming his way.  Looks to me Coleman was the primary read with Hollins clearing out that side and Allen has him on the break on the comeback. 
   1. BUT - Brady said in his interview that "Allen thought he saw something with Hollins" which is very telling that it was Allens decision to break script and take the shot based on that and how Brady continued to talk about it.  Pressed to throw Allen under the bus he declined to comment and keep it in house, but he also said that he needs to do a better job there as an OC on what options are out there essentially.  As in don't give Allen the temptation is how it came across to me by having a deep clear out option.  
   2. Furthermore, McD blew up on the side line right after that pass, he was pissed.  This was not a McD call and Allen blew a critical moment in the game with that decision.  Instead of either getting the ball in play where someone like Coleman or Kincaid could make the catch for 5+ yards and possibly make a guy miss or break a tackle and just get the first down, we faced 3rd and 10 with Allen having to risk the game again droppig back into the endzone where a sack loses the game.  And furthermore, not getting any yards on 3rd down puts us in a bad position punting for our own endzone and gives them the ball back with 3 timeouts and very close to FG position for a team with a kicker with a huge leg.  

As I said since the game, this was Allens worst game I have seen since his rookie season.  And while I was all over McD initially, and he did take responsibility as he should as a HC, I do not think for a second it was McD or Brady that wanted those shots and Allen being Allen thought he saw someting and broke script.  

 

One final note on why I think it was Allen...there was no value in taking the shot from the coaches perspective.  32 seconds with no timeouts needing nearly 60 yards to get a good FG try, throwing over the middle and not to a sideline accomplishes nothing when you have no timeouts.  So much time would come off the clock and you would still be a long ways away from FG range now with very little time left.  Its such an unrealistic option and Brady called every player short except for one in Mack and wasn't even a route where he could get out of bounds if he made the catch.

 

This IMHO this is pretty clear that it was all on Allen.  And I love Allen, so it pains me to say that.  But Allen had a really bad game overall.

 

I like the dichotomy of posters that McDermott isn't aggressive enough on 4th downs and would be happier winning 6-3 than blowing someone out, but suddenly decided to get recklessly aggressive backed up against the end zone with a tie game rather than kill clock and go to overtime.

 

I love Allen. He's obviously amazing, but we all know he has certain tendencies. It's why I was concerned about Dorsey because he tended to accentuate those tendencies. Allen was having a bad game and seeing a chance to win it in one big shot at the end of the game against the Houston Diggs.. yea, it's not hard to see him going off-script.

 

It's on Brady and McDermott because after all this time, they still don't seem to have a feel for when Allen is getting the itch and seem to have as few answers as Dorsey did as to how to keep him in control without losing what makes him special. Daboll did better at it imo and that was what made him valuable, but even he wasn't able to get out in front of it.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Vrabel has the exact amount of success as McDermott does. 

 

Yes, with Marcus Mariota and Ryan Tannehill.

 

But he has successfully transitioned from "promoted Coordinator" to a True Head Coach and knows his situational football as a Belichick disciple.

 

I get folks wanting to bring in the idea of Bill Belichick, but he is too old at this point. Vrabel is the next best thing we can get.

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If anyone goes back and watches the replays and then also listens to the interviews of both McD and Brady since the game...well I think you can fill in the blanks.

 

Admittedly my initial live reaction was all about McD.  But to be honest, I think its clear as day this was on none other than Josh Allen.  Let me elaborate:

1. On 2nd down deep shot to Hollins, Allen MUST get positive yards on this play and has 2 and really 3 options short all open at various times.  Hollins appears to be running a clear out and even seems to be surprised the ball is even coming his way.  Looks to me Coleman was the primary read with Hollins clearing out that side and Allen has him on the break on the comeback. 
   1. BUT - Brady said in his interview that "Allen thought he saw something with Hollins" which is very telling that it was Allens decision to break script and take the shot based on that and how Brady continued to talk about it.  Pressed to throw Allen under the bus he declined to comment and keep it in house, but he also said that he needs to do a better job there as an OC on what options are out there essentially.  As in don't give Allen the temptation is how it came across to me by having a deep clear out option.  
   2. Furthermore, McD blew up on the side line right after that pass, he was pissed.  This was not a McD call and Allen blew a critical moment in the game with that decision.  Instead of either getting the ball in play where someone like Coleman or Kincaid could make the catch for 5+ yards and possibly make a guy miss or break a tackle and just get the first down, we faced 3rd and 10 with Allen having to risk the game again droppig back into the endzone where a sack loses the game.  And furthermore, not getting any yards on 3rd down puts us in a bad position punting for our own endzone and gives them the ball back with 3 timeouts and very close to FG position for a team with a kicker with a huge leg.  

As I said since the game, this was Allens worst game I have seen since his rookie season.  And while I was all over McD initially, and he did take responsibility as he should as a HC, I do not think for a second it was McD or Brady that wanted those shots and Allen being Allen thought he saw someting and broke script.  

 

One final note on why I think it was Allen...there was no value in taking the shot from the coaches perspective.  32 seconds with no timeouts needing nearly 60 yards to get a good FG try, throwing over the middle and not to a sideline accomplishes nothing when you have no timeouts.  So much time would come off the clock and you would still be a long ways away from FG range now with very little time left.  Its such an unrealistic option and Brady called every player short except for one in Mack and wasn't even a route where he could get out of bounds if he made the catch.

 

This IMHO this is pretty clear that it was all on Allen.  And I love Allen, so it pains me to say that.  But Allen had a really bad game overall.

 

While I agree with all of this, and it was a bad game for Josh (who seemed to be trying too hard to impress his ex), I think there is an underlying problem that comes back to McDermott.

 

Josh is not great with situational football, and he doesnt have a HC who is a master of situational football to teach him and get him under control.

 

Where as both Mahomes and Reid are excellent at it and make far fewer mistakes in that realm, which is really what puts them over the top.

 

While it was Josh's mistake in the moment, it is also a failure in coaching for him to not completely understand why he needs to hit the open short route for a number of reasons.

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

I like the dichotomy of posters that McDermott isn't aggressive enough on 4th downs and would be happier winning 6-3 than blowing someone out, but suddenly decided to get recklessly aggressive backed up against the end zone with a tie game rather than kill clock and go to overtime.

 

I love Allen. He's obviously amazing, but we all know he has certain tendencies. It's why I was concerned about Dorsey because he tended to accentuate those tendencies. Allen was having a bad game and seeing a chance to win it in one big shot at the end of the game against the Houston Diggs.. yea, it's not hard to see him going off-script.

 

It's on Brady and McDermott because after all this time, they still don't seem to have a feel for when Allen is getting the itch and seem to have as few answers as Dorsey did as to how to keep him in control without losing what makes him special. Daboll did better at it imo and that was what made him valuable, but even he wasn't able to get out in front of it.

Both McD and Brady individually took the blame to be fair.  And you can hear Brady essentially admit he has to be better at taking those options away from Allen more.  

[BillsVet]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Since this has turned into the semi-monthly Fire McDermott thread, here's what I'll say - I think we will know by the trade deadline if McDermott and Beane feel any pressure about their jobs. If they make a trade for a legit WR that will tell me they feel some sort of pressure to turn things around. If instead they keep the status quo which means Mack Hollins continues to be a regular part of the offense which ensures Josh Allen getting the snot beat out of him for the next three months, that tells me they have been told they have nothing to be worried about. The arguments on McDermott have been hashed out a million times and nothing that happens this season is going to change anyone's mind. But there's only one person in the entire world whose opinion on the subject actully matters and I am very curious to know what that messaging has been like.

 

I presume you mean the pressure is from ownership, but would disagree that a trade necessarily means McBeane are feeling it from ownership to get the ship righted.  

 

There have been rumblings that after hiring McDermott and then Beane, Pegula later regretted granting them so much authority over football management.  I still don't think ownership wants to do a coaching and perhaps GM search, but would hope at this juncture with Josh getting battered that Terry has asked some questions.  

 

That said, if Josh is that one person and he's making comments to ownership, then yeah I'd expect the guy getting paid a quarter-billion's voice counts plenty.  

[Lionel Hutz]

McDermott needs to hit the bricks.

[SoonerBillsFan]

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If anyone goes back and watches the replays and then also listens to the interviews of both McD and Brady since the game...well I think you can fill in the blanks.

 

Admittedly my initial live reaction was all about McD.  But to be honest, I think its clear as day this was on none other than Josh Allen.  Let me elaborate:

1. On 2nd down deep shot to Hollins, Allen MUST get positive yards on this play and has 2 and really 3 options short all open at various times.  Hollins appears to be running a clear out and even seems to be surprised the ball is even coming his way.  Looks to me Coleman was the primary read with Hollins clearing out that side and Allen has him on the break on the comeback. 
   1. BUT - Brady said in his interview that "Allen thought he saw something with Hollins" which is very telling that it was Allens decision to break script and take the shot based on that and how Brady continued to talk about it.  Pressed to throw Allen under the bus he declined to comment and keep it in house, but he also said that he needs to do a better job there as an OC on what options are out there essentially.  As in don't give Allen the temptation is how it came across to me by having a deep clear out option.  
   2. Furthermore, McD blew up on the side line right after that pass, he was pissed.  This was not a McD call and Allen blew a critical moment in the game with that decision.  Instead of either getting the ball in play where someone like Coleman or Kincaid could make the catch for 5+ yards and possibly make a guy miss or break a tackle and just get the first down, we faced 3rd and 10 with Allen having to risk the game again droppig back into the endzone where a sack loses the game.  And furthermore, not getting any yards on 3rd down puts us in a bad position punting for our own endzone and gives them the ball back with 3 timeouts and very close to FG position for a team with a kicker with a huge leg.  

As I said since the game, this was Allens worst game I have seen since his rookie season.  And while I was all over McD initially, and he did take responsibility as he should as a HC, I do not think for a second it was McD or Brady that wanted those shots and Allen being Allen thought he saw someting and broke script.  

 

One final note on why I think it was Allen...there was no value in taking the shot from the coaches perspective.  32 seconds with no timeouts needing nearly 60 yards to get a good FG try, throwing over the middle and not to a sideline accomplishes nothing when you have no timeouts.  So much time would come off the clock and you would still be a long ways away from FG range now with very little time left.  Its such an unrealistic option and Brady called every player short except for one in Mack and wasn't even a route where he could get out of bounds if he made the catch.

 

This IMHO this is pretty clear that it was all on Allen.  And I love Allen, so it pains me to say that.  But Allen had a really bad game overall.

And many of us have said Allen doesn't look right since the bad hit against Baltimore, so something is going on.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

9 hours ago, 86poker said:

Just hire someone to help him handle end of game management.  It's by far his biggest flaw

Mcd needs a new head coach

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, Malazan said:

I like the dichotomy of posters that McDermott isn't aggressive enough on 4th downs and would be happier winning 6-3 than blowing someone out, but suddenly decided to get recklessly aggressive backed up against the end zone with a tie game rather than kill clock and go to overtime.

 

Just speaking for myself here, I have never been one to say a coach should always be aggressive. I think coaches that always go aggressive hurt their teams as much as coaches that always go conservative. You have to weigh each situation in the moment and make the appropriate decision for that moment in that game. On the whole I've actually been very happy with McDermott's 4th down decision making for several years now. I would say it's a strength of his, knowing when to go for it and when to take the points. The Ravens game was the first time in a while where I thought he wasn't aggressive enough at certain points but every coach has those moments so I won't rake him over the coals.

 

As far as the end of this game - it doesn't bother me as much as it did in real time. I understand that the reactionary media is always going to latch onto the final seconds of the game. I just feel very nonchalant about the whole sequence. Kind of the same way I feel about the end of the divisional round actually, where the only thing anybody wants to talk about is the missed throw to Shakir in the endzone and for me that play barely registers in my mind when I'm thinking about reasons that we lost.

 

Part of my feeling is that I never truly felt like this was a game we were going to win. Houston (Stroud in particular) made several very goofy mistakes that gave us any kind of chance at all. Obviously I wish we had made it to OT but can I say I felt particularly confident that we would have won it there? It felt more like a game that Houston tried to hand to us and we did the courtesy of handing it right back. Nothing about that final sequence strikes me as a microcosm of why we lost the game. I can't find any one moment in that final sequence where I feel the coaches let the team down when I really reflect on it. I'm more interested in how the rest of the game exposed pretty severe vulnerabilities in our offensive personnel and coaching.

[Aussie Joe]

55 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Since this has turned into the semi-monthly Fire McDermott thread, here's what I'll say - I think we will know by the trade deadline if McDermott and Beane feel any pressure about their jobs. If they make a trade for a legit WR that will tell me they feel some sort of pressure to turn things around. If instead they keep the status quo which means Mack Hollins continues to be a regular part of the offense which ensures Josh Allen getting the snot beat out of him for the next three months, that tells me they have been told they have nothing to be worried about. The arguments on McDermott have been hashed out a million times and nothing that happens this season is going to change anyone's mind. But there's only one person in the entire world whose opinion on the subject actully matters and I am very curious to know what that messaging has been like.

They can still look to acquire a WR… and that won’t  necessarily mean they are under any pressure  ..

 

Maybe it means that Josh has told them he needs somebody to help him out …as the WRs here aren’t up to it …

 

Pegs is riding with McDermott and Beane into the new stadium … Pegs will be happy with the status quo until then at least …