Mini rebuild. Why is anyone that surprised?

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Same. I was all about the trade up for Addison in 2023. I was 50/50 on whether Thomas was worth it. Like you I'd have been fine with it, but wasn't necessarily banging the table for it. Put it this way though I'd have preferred it to a trade back and taking Keon. And I don't want to just be out here Keon bashing. I always try and leave my draft thoughts at the draft and evaluate them in the NFL based on what they put on tape in the NFL. But so far most of what I feared is manifesting. He has made some plays, so I'm still hopeful maybe he is one of those guys who you bring along slowly and suddenly he takes off after Thanksgiving, but I have some concerns too. 

 

 

Agree, it was a reset or a reload rather than a rebuild. But it's slightly semantics "mini-rebuild" is probably fine as a descriptor too. Every franchise QB who has a 10-15 year career has one or two of these years in there somewhere because your core guys at other spots age out more quickly. 

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

[Savage]

1 minute ago, Niagara Dude said:

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

Niagara dude,

 

very well stated.

 

agree %100

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Niagara Dude said:

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

 

They definitely had reload or mini-rebuild years between eras. They went three years without winning playoff game between the two Giants Superbowls (2008 Brady's injury was a factor but 2009 and 2010 were a reload / mini-rebuild). Other than Brady only three players started both Giants Superbowl losses - Wilfork, Welker and Light. They turned over that roster a ton in that period and had 11-5 (Brady affected) and 10-6 seasons. 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

 

They went to a two tight end system after their high powered, down the field attack with Moss.

They went with Hernandez and Gronk with two slot WR's in Edelman and Welker....

[Utah John]

2 hours ago, uticaclub said:

We will always lack elite talent under this philosophy

So this is the situation the Steelers are stuck in.  They never have a losing season under Tomlin so they never get high draft picks, and so they're always hanging around but never winning it all.  I hope the Bills never have losing seasons too but they eventually will, and that pain is what's needed to get a top pick.  

[uticaclub]

6 minutes ago, Utah John said:

So this is the situation the Steelers are stuck in.  They never have a losing season under Tomlin so they never get high draft picks, and so they're always hanging around but never winning it all.  I hope the Bills never have losing seasons too but they eventually will, and that pain is what's needed to get a top pick.  

They didn’t have a losing season under Cowher either. Steelers just need a QB, we have the QB and nothing else. If the Steelers give us 3 years worth of picks for Allen, they are Super Bowl favorites.

[BillsVet]

There's been conflict on offensive going back a few years in terms of what they want to do between HC and OC, personnel decisions to fit that scheme, and how it's called on game day.  And if there's a strategy issue, it's gonna affect everything downstream of that.  

 

It's amazing that we're talking about the WR group, about a potential trade to address what so many people observed all off-season, and how it would inhibit the offense.  It's also incredible they spent themselves into a cap issue 5 years after they claimed they had to fix the previous regime's.  

 

Whether this is a mini-rebuild or not, the issue is now that they're struggling.  They can add a good WR and it'll help, but there's deeper issues going on because...

 

They've found reasons to run it back for a few seasons up to 2023.  That's got them here in 2024 and when this season is over, save for a SB trip which appears unlikely right now...there needs to be an honest evaluation of what their identity is AND whether it truly works.     

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

And just how do you think the Bills afford to do so?  

 

Some of you just totally forget the cap (and not to mention, availability of personnel)

Some of you forget who got them into the cap situation and still haven’t been good enough to beat the Chiefs and act like those people aren’t the problem.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, balln said:

You’re missing the point. You’re in WR land . Juju NOW. Is different than JUJU breakout wr in his first two seasons w pit

 

its about the qb/ oc and command of the offense

Juju in 2022, before New England, had 933 yards. Why are we saying New England Juju is the real one and not the guy from now and the year before?

[Billzgobowlin]

20 hours ago, <bills4life> said:

Well who manages the cap? Some of you totally forgot how we are in this situation. 

We are in this situation paying our QB, our departed Pro Bowl WR, and our nonexistent (yet everyone was excited to get) pass rusher.  The cap doesn't not lend to having a decent QB and still having money.  Texans will face this in a year and the Ravens will too.

[T master]

23 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

We ALL knew what this season was likely going to be.  

 

We gutted a bunch of defensive players.  We traded stallworths Diggs and Davis.  We didn't trade up for a WR or trade for a #1.

 

You cannot think that we will have a stacked roster year in, year out.  There HAS to be some rebuilding..  and this is it.  There is something called "the cap".

 

We are retooling.  Hoarding draft pics etc.

 

I am not surprised the talent level has dropped off.  Does it suck, sure.  But we are regrouping to enter into Allen's second window imo.

 

Everyone needs to calm down.  

 

The voice of reason just doesn't work in this day and age though instant gratification is what it's all about and a common sense approach to get from point A to point B isn't in that equation ! 

 

There are those here that a couple of years back were wanting the now HC of the Jaguars saying because he won a SB he would be the guy that could come in & turn it all around and get the Bills to the promise land, well how's that working out ?

 

I feel this year has more to do with how some of the players are NOT being used than who they have on the roster . They seemingly are trying to make the offense run through a certain few and forgetting about other talent that has proven them selves to be more than a useful piece to the puzzle in the past as recent as last season .

 

I feel until that is seen as part of the problem the offense this year won't be anything but a shell of what it was because the talent brought in isn't elite but more above average .

[<bills4life>]

3 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

We are in this situation paying our QB, our departed Pro Bowl WR, and our nonexistent (yet everyone was excited to get) pass rusher.  The cap doesn't not lend to having a decent QB and still having money.  Texans will face this in a year and the Ravens will too.

-Dawson knox

-Curtis Samuel 

-Kiar Elam 

-Tyler bass

 

These 4 players are in the top 10 most expensive players against the cap. Don’t tell me about diggs or miller. You just reinforce my point. Of the four players above two ride the pine, one looks like a horrible signing and bass has looked shaky the past two seasons. In what world is this good cap management. Remove these four players and you could afford d. Adams.  Oh wait that’s another blunder cause you thought u could replace diggs with Collin’s and Coleman. For the love of god please don’t make me list the garbage dt, and de that never panned out over the last 6 years. 

[boco357]

This stretch is so brutal.  I tried to look up and some other teams have 3 game road trips.  Not 2 prime time games though and playing 2 division winners.

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, BillsVet said:

There's been conflict on offensive going back a few years in terms of what they want to do between HC and OC, personnel decisions to fit that scheme, and how it's called on game day.  And if there's a strategy issue, it's gonna affect everything downstream of that.  

 

It's amazing that we're talking about the WR group, about a potential trade to address what so many people observed all off-season, and how it would inhibit the offense.  It's also incredible they spent themselves into a cap issue 5 years after they claimed they had to fix the previous regime's.  

 

Whether this is a mini-rebuild or not, the issue is now that they're struggling.  They can add a good WR and it'll help, but there's deeper issues going on because...

 

They've found reasons to run it back for a few seasons up to 2023.  That's got them here in 2024 and when this season is over, save for a SB trip which appears unlikely right now...there needs to be an honest evaluation of what their identity is AND whether it truly works.     

The Process is dead and the Culture needs to be re-evaluated.  Good coaches and good players win you championships.  Not cute little mission statements.

[billsfan89]

10 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

 

From 2005-2006 the Pats lost a lot of veteran free agents who were still performing well. 

 

Deion Branch, Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Adam Vinatieri, starting offensive linemen Joe Andruzzi and Tom Ashworth, Keith Traylor, Roman Phifer, and Troy Brown all left in the span of two off-seasons. The Pats always had years where they retooled their rosters and went through years where they cleaned house on vets and went with younger players and suffered growing pains. 

[PonyBoy]

On 10/7/2024 at 12:11 PM, Sojourner said:

A mini-mini rebuild…

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They definitely had reload or mini-rebuild years between eras. They went three years without winning playoff game between the two Giants Superbowls (2008 Brady's injury was a factor but 2009 and 2010 were a reload / mini-rebuild). Other than Brady only three players started both Giants Superbowl losses - Wilfork, Welker and Light. They turned over that roster a ton in that period and had 11-5 (Brady affected) and 10-6 seasons. 

There is a big difference between rebuilding after winning multiple Lombardis and rebuilding after getting your ass kicked in the divisional round time after time…there is a much higher tolerance for the former.

[PonyBoy]

3 hours ago, boco357 said:

This stretch is so brutal.  I tried to look up and some other teams have 3 game road trips.  Not 2 prime time games though and playing 2 division winners.

 

Agree, but it's the bonehead play calling at the finish from the end zone that has this board rankled. 

 

It feels like they didn't get a fair chance due to coaching. They still might have lost in OT, punt could have been returned for a big gain, etc...

 

But play the percentages by making them burn TO's. Heck, Cook might have broke a long one, he's good with breakaway speed. That's what most opinions is what this board is ranting about. 

[Locomark]

A rebuild is when you are sub 500 team.we aren’t that. Every NFL team switches out 10-30 players annually. I believe I heard the Bills 4th Super Bowl included only 7 players from their 1st one. That was before Free Agency which accelerates movement. 

[billsfan89]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:18 PM, uticaclub said:

Texans were down their top 2 RBs & lost their top WR at half. Dont use injuries as has excuse for this loss. Its indefensible to have this lack of talent.

 

The Bills were far more banged up, I think you are just being hyperbolic and reactionary to a tough loss. Every team deals with injuries but it is very apparent looking at who the Bills were missing on defense and the lack of Shakir on offense that the Bills were set back more talent wise than the Texans. Yet the Bills took the game down to the wire on the road. 

 

The Bills went into the season with a lack of talent at WR and a shaky kicker situation, everywhere else on the roster the Bills are solid or better. I do agree the Bills should have found a way to get more at WR but that's the price the Bills have paid to retool their roster longer term. 

 

In the end the Bills are who we thought they were a good team with a major flaw at WR and a few other okayish areas. This team should still win 10-11 games and win the division with the rest of the division being very lacklust. If the Bills can beat the Jets on Monday they will take a strong hold over the division early which is a good luxury for a team figuring things out.