Mini rebuild. Why is anyone that surprised?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

We ALL knew what this season was likely going to be.  

 

We gutted a bunch of defensive players.  We traded stallworths Diggs and Davis.  We didn't trade up for a WR or trade for a #1.

 

You cannot think that we will have a stacked roster year in, year out.  There HAS to be some rebuilding..  and this is it.  There is something called "the cap".

 

We are retooling.  Hoarding draft pics etc.

 

I am not surprised the talent level has dropped off.  Does it suck, sure.  But we are regrouping to enter into Allen's second window imo.

 

Everyone needs to calm down.  

Because we see teams like the Chiefs and Brady-led Patriots w/ subpar WRs win games and feel like Allen should be able to do the same. I’m not throwing in the towel yet. IMO, the coaching is the bigger than any roster issues 

[WeckMonster]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Spagnuolo literally had a head coaching job and was fired from it and scooped up by the chiefs haha I don’t really get the logic.  That happens to offensive coaches all the time too that just can’t quite cut it as head coaches. Every promising OC doesn’t get a head coaching job and hold onto it,  it’s a pretty constant churn of guys getting promoted and then fired  and beane could pretty easily grab someone from that group which is what a lot of the good teams do on both sides of the ball (Washington with kingsbury for example)

 

And to go even further, there’s multiple guys that are head coaches right now that have made the leap from DC to head coach, gotten fired, taken another DC job then gotten other head coaching jobs; it’s not like that never happens.  Raheem Morris, Dan Quinn, and Todd Bowles all have done that.  I think the issue with spags is he’s 64 now and teams don’t know when he’ll hang it up or he probably would’ve gotten another shot too. Its not because he’s a defensive minded guy that failed as a head coach once before that is scaring teams off 

 

the last hiring cycle or so was a pretty even split offensive vs defensive head coaches…y’all are making it sound like nobody picks up defensive head coaches anymore lol  Heck we just lost to one yesterday 

Article from 2023 below. Your anecdotes are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

Quote:

The lack of continuity extends to offensive coordinators because 46 of the 69 head coaches hired have come from that side of the ball. In the last five years, it’s 25 of 37, so essentially two of every three coaches hired have an offensive background. In the last four cycles, it was 21 of 30.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 minutes ago, WeckMonster said:

Article from 2023 below. Your anecdotes are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

Quote:

The lack of continuity extends to offensive coordinators because 46 of the 69 head coaches hired have come from that side of the ball. In the last five years, it’s 25 of 37, so essentially two of every three coaches hired have an offensive background. In the last four cycles, it was 21 of 30.

How are they exceptions exactly?  More offensive minded head coaches hired means more fired which means more available for OC which was point 1.  They’re not all getting hc jobs and disappearing lol you made it sound like there will never be anyone to do the job.  

 

then the second point was spagnuolo almost assuredly gets a head coaching job and promoted out of DC if he wasn’t so old, it has nothing to do with him being defense minded.  And I listed multiple other guys that are coaching right now who followed that same trajectory with less success than spags.

 

then the third point was I think we may be seeing a swing back to defense look at what happened the last hiring cycle.  It’s not like there’s some common convention that’s it’s a no no to hire defensive minded head coaches now that only Buffalo doesn’t know 😂. 

 

really don’t think you’ve disproven anything here 

Edited October 8 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mike in Horseheads]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

You can't waste a year of Allen.

He could get injured at anytime.

Look what happend to Cam Newton.

Beane has failed us and Allen. Why people trust him at this point is nuts to me.

Do you ever post anything positive?

[Utah John]

The situation was apparent in March.  Too many departures, too many aging players, too little cap space.  And then Milano, Johnson, Bernard all out.  Geez.

 

I remain convinced the Bills can and should win the AFCE again, but it was never realistic to expect more this year.  

 

Look around the league.  With few exceptions (KC for instance) even the top teams take dips in some seasons, and often they rebound with more excellent seasons.  I think what has Bills fans petrified is our history, that after we get good, we don't dip and come back, we dip and then sink, for a decade or more. The Bills were strong with Lou Saban v.1, then fell apart for six or seven years, got better with Lou Saban v.2, then fell apart for over a decade until Chuck Knox, then fell apart for a decade until Marv Levy, then fell apart for a generation before McD.  To be a Bills fan is to know the abyss is always just around the corner.  I simply don't believe we're in that situation right now.  I think the strong core of the team remains, and added pieces next offseason plus maturity from Cole Bishop on the back end will right things.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

36 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The situation was apparent in March.  Too many departures, too many aging players, too little cap space.  And then Milano, Johnson, Bernard all out.  Geez.

 

I remain convinced the Bills can and should win the AFCE again, but it was never realistic to expect more this year.  

 

Look around the league.  With few exceptions (KC for instance) even the top teams take dips in some seasons, and often they rebound with more excellent seasons.  I think what has Bills fans petrified is our history, that after we get good, we don't dip and come back, we dip and then sink, for a decade or more. The Bills were strong with Lou Saban v.1, then fell apart for six or seven years, got better with Lou Saban v.2, then fell apart for over a decade until Chuck Knox, then fell apart for a decade until Marv Levy, then fell apart for a generation before McD.  To be a Bills fan is to know the abyss is always just around the corner.  I simply don't believe we're in that situation right now.  I think the strong core of the team remains, and added pieces next offseason plus maturity from Cole Bishop on the back end will right things.  

This might be a bit of a hot take but given the absolute mess of injuries on top of all the new players adjusting on top of the lack of wideout talent on top of a pretty tough three straight road game tilt early, I think we’re actually ahead of expectations at 3-2 and that might actually make grabbing a wr a logical move.  This was looking like it was going to be a completely lost season leading in to week 1 before we even lost a few more impact players so spending future resources on a wideout probably didn’t seem worth it at first with all the holes 

 

I think you almost have to do it now because there’s definitely a path to a team that can go on a run.  Some defensive players have really stepped up and the ones that havent should be back on the bench once some guys heal up 

Edited October 8 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Utah John]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This might be a bit of a hot take but given the absolute mess of injuries on top of all the new players adjusting on top of the lack of wideout talent on top of a pretty tough three straight road game tilt early, I think we’re actually ahead of expectations at 3-2 and that might actually make grabbing a wr a logical move.  This was looking like it was going to be a completely lost season leading in to week 1 before we even lost a few more impact players so spending future resources on a wideout probably didn’t seem worth it at first 

I never thought this would be a lost season.  I thought and still think it's a season where the Bills should have a winning record but not have a reasonable chance at the Super Bowl.  To some, that is by definition a lost season, and I understand and respect that.  My view is that the 2022 team was the one where everything was in place and on schedule to win everything, and we screwed that up, and we've been playing damage control ever since, trying not to let the whole thing collapse, and working to figure out how to get better in the future.  My view since the offseason is that 2025 and 2026 are now looking like our championship years (in part because KC has to lose its mojo some day, right?).

 

So spending future resources on a WR1 to replace Diggs seemed like grasping at straws, and like a great way to keep 2025 and 2026 from working out.  I still think that.  

 

The Bills spent millions of dollars on band-aids for the receiver group, and got pennies on the dollar for their investment, at least so far.  But you could take all those millions and still not be able to afford one of the top tier WRs available in FA.  And trading a second rounder for an aging WR just looks foolish if you're viewing the process from a long-term perspective.

Edited October 8 by Utah John

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

14 minutes ago, Utah John said:

I never thought this would be a lost season.  I thought and still think it's a season where the Bills should have a winning record but not have a reasonable chance at the Super Bowl.  To some, that is by definition a lost season, and I understand and respect that.  My view is that the 2022 team was the one where everything was in place and on schedule to win everything, and we screwed that up, and we've been playing damage control ever since, trying not to let the whole thing collapse, and working to figure out how to get better in the future.  My view since the offseason is that 2025 and 2026 are now looking like our championship years (in part because KC has to lose its mojo some day, right?).

I was at that projection pre Milano injury then that dropped us to might not win the division  but probably a wildcard team at worst.  Then we lost Bernard and taron Johnson pretty early I just can’t think of three worst defensive players to take away really.  People overlook it but the fact we stymied the tua dolphins with the available players we had is kind of unbelievable lol I really think that cardinals team is pretty good too.  
 

 

Edited October 8 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Bangarang said:

As it currently stands right now, we have around 10 mil in cap space going into next season which is among one of the worst in the league.

 

And for the hoarding of draft picks comment, we have 8 picks which includes what looks like a late 2nd rounder from the Vikings (which could be helpful) and an extra 4th and 6th. 

 

There are two comp picks coming for Gabe and Leonard Floyd as well. Probably two 5ths (although Gabe has an outside chance of being a 4th). Looks like:

 

One 1st

Two 2nds

One 3rd

Two 4ths

Two 5ths

Two 6ths

 

I agree that is hardly hoarding picks in the sense of premium picks. What we really need from out draft picks is an early pick to turn into a difference maker. That is sorely missing on this roster IMO. Collecting more Benfords and Shakirs and Bernards is all well and good but difference makers are missing. 

[uticaclub]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are two comp picks coming for Gabe and Leonard Floyd as well. Probably two 5ths (although Gabe has an outside chance of being a 4th). Looks like:

 

One 1st

Two 2nds

One 3rd

Two 4ths

Two 5ths

Two 6ths

 

I agree that is hardly hoarding picks in the sense of premium picks. What we really need from out draft picks is an early pick to turn into a difference maker. That is sorely missing on this roster IMO. Collecting more Benfords and Shakirs and Bernards is all well and good but difference makers are missing. 

We will always lack elite talent under this philosophy

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

We will always lack elite talent under this philosophy

 

Under which philosophy?

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are two comp picks coming for Gabe and Leonard Floyd as well. Probably two 5ths (although Gabe has an outside chance of being a 4th). Looks like:

 

One 1st

Two 2nds

One 3rd

Two 4ths

Two 5ths

Two 6ths

 

I agree that is hardly hoarding picks in the sense of premium picks. What we really need from out draft picks is an early pick to turn into a difference maker. That is sorely missing on this roster IMO. Collecting more Benfords and Shakirs and Bernards is all well and good but difference makers are missing. 

100% agree. The Bills don’t need more bites at the apple IMO. They need stars. They need to draft someone that comes out and goes to the Pro Bowl as a rookie. 

Edited October 8 by Kirby Jackson

[The Helmet of]

Josh used to take one or two massive hits a year. Now he’s taking one or two massive hits per game.

 

I’m surprised this organization is pissing away its greatest asset in franchise history.

 

How many years does McDermott deserve to try to win a championship with Josh Allen? 7? 10? 15? His whole career?

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, The Helmet of said:

Josh used to take one or two massive hits a year. Now he’s taking one or two massive hits per game.

 

I’m surprised this organization is pissing away its greatest asset in franchise history.

 

How many years does McDermott deserve to try to win a championship with Josh Allen? 7? 10? 15? His whole career?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

100% agree. The Bills don’t need more bites at the apple IMO. They need stats. They need to draft someone that comes out and goes to the Pro Bowl as a rookie. 

 

Right now trading up for Brian Thomas, even if it means not having Cole Bishop, looks like the move to have made. Like the year before going up further and getting Addison was preferable to a smaller trade up for Kincaid.

[ProcessTruster]

16 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

And just how do you think the Bills afford to do so?  

 

Some of you just totally forget the cap (and not to mention, availability of personnel)

yeah, it seems many on this board either

 

(1) really have no idea how the league actually works in practice re: the salary cap and injury impacts on it (see T White, V Miller, etc.) or

 

(2) fail to appreciate the impact of changing the entire coaching staff and then stinking for 2-3 years while changing the roster to fit the coaches, or 

 

(3) just want to "buy" a single SB in FA, get the T - shirt and then stink for the next 10 years (see LA Rams, Saints, etc. ) 

 

Some (Most?) of the posts on this board after a loss reflect one of the above 3 .  IMHO, Better to wait until about Thursday to look at this board.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

17 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

We ALL knew what this season was likely going to be.  

 

We gutted a bunch of defensive players.  We traded stallworths Diggs and Davis.  We didn't trade up for a WR or trade for a #1.

 

You cannot think that we will have a stacked roster year in, year out.  There HAS to be some rebuilding..  and this is it.  There is something called "the cap".

 

We are retooling.  Hoarding draft pics etc.

 

I am not surprised the talent level has dropped off.  Does it suck, sure.  But we are regrouping to enter into Allen's second window imo.

 

Everyone needs to calm down.  

This is not a rebuild, any kind of rebuild means tanking for a top pick and guys like Von Miller/Dawkins/Milano are not on this team if were rebuilding, perhaps resetting not rebuild is starting over. The fact is resetting or rebuilding does not excuse McDERMOTT from horrible late game decision making.

[Kirby Jackson]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Right now trading up for Brian Thomas, even if it means not having Cole Bishop, looks like the move to have made. Like the year before going up further and getting Addison was preferable to a smaller trade up for Kincaid.

Yep

 

Admittedly, I didn’t love Thomas. I liked him and thought he was the 4th best WR. I wasn’t sure if he was a number 1. I would have been fine with that move at the time but not doing cartwheels like I would have if they got one of the big 3 (regardless of cost). As it turns out, Thomas is off to a great start and looks like he would have been an elite fit.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep

 

Admittedly, I didn’t love Thomas. I liked him and thought he was the 4th best WR. I wasn’t sure if he was a number 1. I would have been fine with that move at the time but not doing cartwheels like I would have if they got one of the big 3 (regardless of cost). As it turns out, Thomas is off to a great start and looks like he would have been an elite fit.

 

Same. I was all about the trade up for Addison in 2023. I was 50/50 on whether Thomas was worth it. Like you I'd have been fine with it, but wasn't necessarily banging the table for it. Put it this way though I'd have preferred it to a trade back and taking Keon. And I don't want to just be out here Keon bashing. I always try and leave my draft thoughts at the draft and evaluate them in the NFL based on what they put on tape in the NFL. But so far most of what I feared is manifesting. He has made some plays, so I'm still hopeful maybe he is one of those guys who you bring along slowly and suddenly he takes off after Thanksgiving, but I have some concerns too. 

 

8 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

This is not a rebuild, any kind of rebuild means tanking for a top pick and guys like Von Miller/Dawkins/Milano are not on this team if were rebuilding, perhaps resetting not rebuild is starting over. The fact is resetting or rebuilding does not excuse McDERMOTT from horrible late game decision making.

 

Agree, it was a reset or a reload rather than a rebuild. But it's slightly semantics "mini-rebuild" is probably fine as a descriptor too. Every franchise QB who has a 10-15 year career has one or two of these years in there somewhere because your core guys at other spots age out more quickly. 

Edited October 8 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo Boy]

10 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’m at a weird spot with this…if they can mcd unless they bring in a coach that runs the same defensive scheme I don’t know that this is even a playoff team for the first  year or two until they turn the defensive roster over. So it seems weird to draw the line at a one year dump a few contracts but be competitive ish situation.  It’s not like kc has been slapping up around in the playoffs. The bills have given them as good a run as anybody 

 

firing mcd probably causes a longer wait in josh Allen’s prime logically 

   If ever there was a time it was this last offseason. They missed it.