Mini rebuild. Why is anyone that surprised?

[balln]

13 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

The reality your never rebuilding when you have a franchise QB,  I don't recall the Patriots ever having rebuild years with Brady.  Beane and McDermott need to get their act together or they will be rebuilding the front office and HC.  

They wouldn’t trade for and then extend an old WR to a ridiculous contract and then trade away. 
 

Nor would they sign Knox , prob not Oliver , ect 

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Juju in 2022, before New England, had 933 yards. Why are we saying New England Juju is the real one and not the guy from now and the year before?

That was juju first stint in kc. What is so hard to understand here

Edited October 9 by balln

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

There is a big difference between rebuilding after winning multiple Lombardis and rebuilding after getting your ass kicked in the divisional round time after time…there is a much higher tolerance for the former.

 

Sure. But the point was if you have a 10-15-20 year QB it is inevitable that you have to have these resets, reloads, mini rebuilds. It is just a fact.

[Dr.Sack]

Andy Reid is 66. 
 

Joe Brady is 35.

 

Relax we have time.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, balln said:

They wouldn’t trade for and then extend an old WR to a ridiculous contract and then trade away. 
 

Nor would they sign Knox , prob not Oliver , ect 

That was juju first stint in kc. What is so hard to understand here

It’s hard to understand why we are discounting the good and great Pittsburgh years also. There’s some mental gymnastics going on here to discredit a guy that has had WAY more success than any of our guys. We are saying when he was good it was a while ago. When asked, “what about 2 years ago or what he’s doing now?” That gets met with, “he’s a product of the system.” So if we are keeping score at home, he used to be good in Pittsburgh. He went to KC and was good again but this time it is because of their system. Juju leaves and goes to the worst offense ever and now sucks, comes back to KC, plays well but that’s only because of the system again? Am I doing this right?

Edited October 9 by Kirby Jackson

[<bills4life>]

20 hours ago, Utah John said:

So this is the situation the Steelers are stuck in.  They never have a losing season under Tomlin so they never get high draft picks, and so they're always hanging around but never winning it all.  I hope the Bills never have losing seasons too but they eventually will, and that pain is what's needed to get a top pick.  

They also never had a Josh Allen.  When Ben was there they were in the thick of it.  Which is much more than I can say for this regime being bounced in the divisional round over and over again.  

On 10/7/2024 at 7:13 PM, khlax3 said:

the next 6 games before the by it’s pretty realistic to go 5-1 or 4-2. Bills at worst should be 7-4 going into the bye week with 2 games against the patriots at the end of the season. Going 2-2 or maybe even 1-3 in the other 4 games probably wins us the division at 10-7 or 11-6

Great.  You forget to add what’s next.  Early playoff exit in heartbreaking fashion due to a dumb McDermott decision in the waning seconds.  

[Billzgobowlin]

13 hours ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

-Dawson knox

-Curtis Samuel 

-Kiar Elam 

-Tyler bass

 

These 4 players are in the top 10 most expensive players against the cap. Don’t tell me about diggs or miller. You just reinforce my point. Of the four players above two ride the pine, one looks like a horrible signing and bass has looked shaky the past two seasons. In what world is this good cap management. Remove these four players and you could afford d. Adams.  Oh wait that’s another blunder cause you thought u could replace diggs with Collin’s and Coleman. For the love of god please don’t make me list the garbage dt, and de that never panned out over the last 6 years. 

So your solution is to add one high priced player to replace 4 positions we need to address.  Elam is a rookie contract and you are not getting that money back.  Bass is being paid less than a million a year, how are you saving money on a kicker or do you advise we go without a kicker?  Knox is the only gripe you have, he was overpaid but still is a solid TE.  My point with Diggs and Miller is everyone would have complained if we didn't extend Diggs and everyone was excited about Miller when we signed him.  Can't blame Beane if no one disagreed with the move to begin with.  

[NewEra]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:41 AM, KentuckyBillsFan said:

Rebuilding from what? Divisional round losses? Our franchise QB being 7 years into his career and having the worst pass catching group since he had to throw to the leftover trash of the drought era his rookie year is a complete organizational failure that starts with Brandon Beane

Rebuilding from salary cap hell.  That should be obvious 

[Billzgobowlin]

22 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

#2. They didn't change the entire coaching staff. They failed to replace the single most important person. The one responsible for a series of in-game gaffes and mistakes that have cost this team in critical situations against the better teams in the league where there is no margin of error for tolerating such blunders. This team looked totally unprepared for the Ravens game and played like it. Against the Texans the defense did their best but the offense looked like garbage most of the game. And when listening to post game excuses I keep hearing about communication and execution problems. 

 

Is there anyone here confident that Sean will have this team prepared for what we all know the Jets will do on offense and defense and ready to play their best on Monday night? Playing their best win or lose. That's really the expectation and I think that what most fans are looking for out of their team. I'm not expecting miracles such as the WR group is going to light it up or all the new players on defense playing because of injuries and departures are going to make the Pro Bowl. And there's nothing wrong with losing to a superior foe but when you constantly shoot yourself in the foot and blow a game in the most inconceivable way and look like a fool while doing it, its a different story. At this point either you know what you're doing or you don't And stop making stupid coaching mistakes or find another job someplace else. The longer they delay reaching the inevitable conclusion that we need to make a change at HQ, the longer they will fail to get a sniff at the Super Bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes he absolutely will.  I'm guessing you forgot the years of Jauron, Rex Ryan, Gailey, Williams, Mularkey, and Marrone.  Look at the league and pick three (if you can find them) coaches you would rather have than McDermott and then look at the forums on the team's sites and see if they don't have similar views.  Be happy that we have a coach that consistently takes us to the playoffs and gives us a chance every year.

[<bills4life>]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Rebuilding from salary cap hell.  That should be obvious 

Also created by beane 

[dave mcbride]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They definitely had reload or mini-rebuild years between eras. They went three years without winning playoff game between the two Giants Superbowls (2008 Brady's injury was a factor but 2009 and 2010 were a reload / mini-rebuild). Other than Brady only three players started both Giants Superbowl losses - Wilfork, Welker and Light. They turned over that roster a ton in that period and had 11-5 (Brady affected) and 10-6 seasons. 

Also, the Pats are a real outlier. The better comps are Green Bay with Rodgers, NO with Brees, Pitt with Roethlisberger, and the Colts in 2001. After 2 playoff seasons and a decline in 2000 to 10-6, Indy went 6-10 in 2001. Their next three drafts landed Dwight Freeney, Larry Triplett, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, and Bob Sanders. Jake Scott was a good guard too. It got them over the top eventually because teams forced to pass late against them had to face a set of elite pass rushers.

Edited October 9 by dave mcbride

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

Also created by beane 

Right, by trying to somewhat go all in and win a Super Bowl by signing Von Miller.  It was working- and then he tore his acl and we lost him for 2 playoff runs.  
 

if we didn’t sign von, people would be crying about Beane wasting Josh Allen’s prime year.  Pass rush is the 2nd most important aspect (to QB play) to winning Super Bowl.  He tried and injury lost 2 seasons.  Big swing.  Big miss.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Yes he absolutely will.  I'm guessing you forgot the years of Jauron, Rex Ryan, Gailey, Williams, Mularkey, and Marrone.  Look at the league and pick three (if you can find them) coaches you would rather have than McDermott and then look at the forums on the team's sites and see if they don't have similar views.  Be happy that we have a coach that consistently takes us to the playoffs and gives us a chance every year.

I do hope you're right and I shared a similar view until the final 2 minutes of the game on Sunday. Going to the playoffs consistently has been fantastic but you only get so many shots at the prize and you need to take advantage when the opportunity presents itself. Because its not going to last forever.

 

And some of those Bills coaches you mentioned had pretty good rosters with the exception of one critical position. They didn't have the one thing McDermott has and that's a legitimate top 5 in the league franchise QB named Josh Allen. Most of those coaches in the league that fans gripe about also do not have a Josh Allen type. If they did, they would have winning records and would be challenging for division titles and playoff berths on a consistent basis.

 

If you take away Allen and insert a QB from those coaching stints of those former Bills HC's, I'd argue their records and Sean's would be more or less the same. And we don't have a playoff run going and he's probably fired a couple seasons ago. Figure Sean is halfway thru Allen's career and so far not much to show for it. How many more seasons and years of their life do fans want to waste on the Sean McDermott project praying for a result that probably will never come? I have very little confidence left at this point given what we've seen that he's ever going to lead this team to a Super Bowl victory.

Edited October 9 by All_Pro_Bills

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Also, the Pats are a real outlier. The better comps are Green Bay with Rodgers, NO with Brees, Pitt with Roethlisberger, and the Colts in 2001. After 2 playoff seasons and a decline in 2000 to 10-6, Indy went 6-10 in 2001. Their next three drafts landed Dwight Freeney, Larry Triplett, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, and Bob Sanders. Jake Scott was a good guard too. It got them over the top eventually because teams forced to pass late against them had to face a set of elite pass rushers.

Are you trying to say that Groot, Epinesa, and a hobbled, now suspended Von aren’t elite pass rushers? (sarcasm) 

[Billzgobowlin]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I do hope you're right and I shared a similar view until the final 2 minutes of the game on Sunday. Going to the playoffs consistently has been fantastic but you only get so many shots at the prize and you need to take advantage when the opportunity presents itself. Because its not going to last forever.

 

And some of those Bills coaches you mentioned had pretty good rosters with the exception of one critical position. They didn't have the one thing McDermott has and that's a legitimate top 5 in the league franchise QB named Josh Allen. Most of those coaches in the league that fans gripe about also do not have a Josh Allen type. If they did, they would have winning records and would be challenging for division titles and playoff berths on a consistent basis.

 

If you take away Allen and insert a QB from those coaching stints of those former Bills HC's, I'd argue their records and Sean's would be more or less the same. And we don't have a playoff run going and he's probably fired a couple seasons ago. Figure Sean is halfway thru Allen's career and so far not much to show for it. How many more seasons and years of their life do fans want to waste on the Sean McDermott project praying for a result that probably will never come? I have absolutely zero confidence at this point given what we've seen that he's going to lead this team to a Super Bowl victory.

I feel your pain but not sure there is a better way to handle that.  If we go three runs won't as many people complain we didn't try to win the game with only a field goal needed.  I've seen it too many times people calling McDermott too conservative.  I do think if they did not have three timeouts though you would have seen all runs.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Also, the Pats are a real outlier. The better comps are Green Bay with Rodgers, NO with Brees, Pitt with Roethlisberger, and the Colts in 2001. After 2 playoff seasons and a decline in 2000 to 10-6, Indy went 6-10 in 2001. Their next three drafts landed Dwight Freeney, Larry Triplett, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, and Bob Sanders. Jake Scott was a good guard too. It got them over the top eventually because teams forced to pass late against them had to face a set of elite pass rushers.

 

Yea the second half of the Brady era they pretty much managed without a reset and that was a phenomenal achievement - partly drive by the fact that guys would take less money to go there for a year or two and chase a ring. But it also led to the last couple of years of Brady that roster being held together with a roll of sticky tape and not much else. 

[Coach Tuesday]

I am not down on the season.  I’m down on the head coach and the overrated GM.

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the second half of the Brady era they pretty much managed without a reset and that was a phenomenal achievement - partly drive by the fact that guys would take less money to go there for a year or two and chase a ring. But it also led to the last couple of years of Brady that roster being held together with a roll of sticky tape and not much else. 

The funny thing about the Pats is that I think the best unit of their entire run, including the 16-0 season, was the 2010 team (14-2). In their final 8 games of the season, they scored 39, 31, 45, 45, 36, 31, 34, and 38 points (299 total; 37.5 on average) and allowed 125 points (15.6 on average). Also, teams they faced in that run included a really good Indy team Indy plus both SB teams: Pitt and GB. They lost to the Jets in the second game of the season (at Met Life) and somehow lost to them again in the playoffs at home despite beating them 45-3 five games prior. Just an utterly dominating team that had an inexplicably poor showing vs the Jets in the divisional round. I recall them being unstoppable and I remember that playoff game as if it were yesterday. I couldn't believe they lost because they were so much better than the Jets. It was certainly the highlight, by far, of Rex Ryan's career. 

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the second half of the Brady era they pretty much managed without a reset and that was a phenomenal achievement - partly drive by the fact that guys would take less money to go there for a year or two and chase a ring. But it also led to the last couple of years of Brady that roster being held together with a roll of sticky tape and not much else. 

Well, the second last season with Brady they won the SB and in the last season they started out 8-0. But yeah, it was a very diminished offense in 2019 because of Gronk's temporary retirement.

Edited October 9 by dave mcbride

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

Well, the second last season with Brady they won the SB and in the last season they started out 8-0. But yeah, it was a very diminished offense in 2019 because of Gronk's temporary retirement.

 

And it was an old roster even among what was left. That was more my point rather than them being bad per se... it was still McCourty, Gilmore, Edelman, Brady, Chung, White, Collins etc...

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

On 10/7/2024 at 1:38 PM, dorquemada said:

Because we all allowed ourselves to believe that the Bills were the team they looked like through the 2024 Super Bowl against the Jags.  With that monkey off our backs, we can resume the programming as per expected with JV receivers, a bad and undisciplined OL, and a D that loves to give up big plays on 3rd and long.  There's relief in experiencing what we expect to rather than to be surprised!

Don't forget... a GM who gave massive extensions and contracts to Dawson knox, von miller, stefon diggs and Curtis samuel. And the head coach who mismanages every single late game scenario .

[dorquemada]

7 minutes ago, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:

Don't forget... a GM who gave massive extensions and contracts to Dawson knox, von miller, stefon diggs and Curtis samuel. And the head coach who mismanages every single late game scenario .

 

Great point.  Signs them then forbids their proper use.  Why do they even suit Samuel up on gameday if he's just going to get targeted 5 yards behind the LoS?  It would literally be better for Allen to just throw the ball out of bounds.