Josh Allen Performance Yesterday..a Redux

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Brand J said:

Allen and Mahomes definitely handle pocket pressure differently, no one can dispute that. Overall, their ceilings are comparable, but Patty’s floor is still much higher than Josh’s. Mahomes has never looked as bad as Josh has at his worst.

 

I’m still loyal to the laundry over any player, so if you gave me the option to trade Josh for Patty - as annoying as Mahomes is - I’d do it in a heartbeat. It’s not that I don’t think Josh can win a championship with less around him, I do, but Patty has that extra little magic and consistency that I believe in a little bit more. And yes, I know he also has Chris Jones who has a knack for making the big defensive play at the most opportune time. Josh has never had that player on defense, but I’d still roll with Pat. 

Andy Reid is lucky to have Mahommes. Poor Joe Brady has been stuck with Allen. 🙄

[reddogblitz]

16 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I liked the tweet yesterday that the last time we properly executed a screen play Thurman scored a TD.  😂 

 

I'm gonna say it was Fred Jackson.  We ran great screens when Coach Gailey was here.  I've been saying for years Dabol/Dorsey/Brady should dust off some of those Gailey era game films and copy some of those. I know they still have them somewhere at OBD.

 

It would be a great play to run against these over aggressive blitzing Ds we've seen the last 2 weeks and no doubt will Monday night.

Edited October 8 by reddogblitz

[SectionC3]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Then why was he playing so bad the whole game before that play where he left the game shortly to get examined?

That's on him and other factors. But the dumb decisions on the last series . . . if that guy wasn't concussed on "the hit," then I don't know what a concussion looks like anymore.  

[Nihilarian]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Mack was involved in a few plays.  Allen affected the whole game.  You have it out for Mack, I said remove your bias.  Both could be bad and on the same day.  Allen is the reason we lost yesterday and it’s not close or debatable.

 

We still had a chance to win thanks to 3 major plays by our Defense and an incredible play by Coleman to give Allen his only TD that was all Coleman.  
 

Allen missed guys all day, had multiple near turnovers, held the ball too long several times, made poor decisions the entire game.  
 

Not sure anyone loves Allen more than me, but truth is truth.  And holding Allen accountable does not erase other people’s mistakes, including the coaches.  It is being brutally honest about assessing Allen’s personal game yesterday.

 

 

Look at the first two series; every throw was an overthrow by five yards.  (9 of 30 for 131 yards a 55.4 QBR.) Josh Allen was broken against the Texans and this looked like his worst NFL game ever. Even Kincade had 6 targets with 2 receptions.

 

Here is hoping that Joe Brady or someone can fix Josh before the Jets on MNF. The Jets are currently 3rd in yards allowed on defense. 

[Steve Billieve]

18 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Where are the screens to slow down the pressure?  That's how you force them to stop...invite the blitz then throw a screen right behind it for huge gains

I remember one screen where their defender split a double team and tackled cook for something like a 6-8 yard loss. It was just not a good game, up and down the offensive roster.

[Livinginthepast]

19 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I liked the tweet yesterday that the last time we properly executed a screen play Thurman scored a TD.  😂 

For Bills fans of a certain age, Thurman getting a screen or a shovel pass from Kelly was offensive perfection. 99/100 Thurman was getting great yardage. I have yet to see any OC in the McD era do this with any consistency or at all in certain cases.

[BobbyC81]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here but I put more of the blame for this loss on Josh than he has received.  Somebody here posted the video of one of those 3 passes on the Bills last possession.  The clip clearly showed Kincaid and another receiver available to receive a pass for at least a few yards, but Josh instead threw a low percentage deep pass.  He reverted to his hero ball again instead of taking the shorter passes that were available.  
 

I haven’t seen any other clips so it’s unknown how many other times he did the same in his 9 for 31 passing day.

[colin]

Allen flat out sucked vs Houston.  He was not great vs Baltimore either.

 

The OC has to recognize what is and isn't working, and draw up plays that can work, also he has to get his QB right.

 

Marino did his all 22 as well.  19 of 25 first downs were runs and the rate was higher when cook was in.  First down is the easiest passing down.  Mahomes is playing better than Allan, no question, but our brain trust is not giving their panicky QB any easy plays to get going nor are they winning any rock paper scissors games with formations and match ups.  The OL is getting got because no one, not Allen not the OC and not the wrs or backs, are recognizing blitzes correctly.

 

We've seen from mcds prior team melt downs that the coaches are in over their heads right now and they need a shake up.  There is no way an OC with ability can't get Allen to better than 9/30.  There are also 20 OCs who can be less predictable than 19/25 first down runs.

 

Allen has to get out of his funk, our wrs have to play better, all of that, but the coaches can make lots of changes very easily to get ahead of the sticks.

 

You battle w the army you brought, right now these coaches, offensively mainly, are out thinking themselves and are making it easy.  They need to fix it now.

[zow2]

I have to think 9 for 30 or whatever is one of the worst NFL completion% at or above 30 attempts ever.   I mean we all love Josh but he was making some poor decisions and poor throws.  Of course the receivers and OLine played a big role but for an elite QB, he threw some bad balls.

 

It starts with coaching too.  You watch KC last night and there is a scheme to nearly every pass.  You can see the way defenders are cleared out and receivers schemed open.  

[Sweats]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I'm gonna say it was Fred Jackson.  We ran great screens when Coach Gailey was here.  I've been saying for years Dabol/Dorsey/Brady should dust off some of those Gailey era game films and copy some of those. I know they still have them somewhere at OBD.

 

It would be a great play to run against these over aggressive blitzing Ds we've seen the last 2 weeks and no doubt will Monday night.

 

 

 

 

I think they took that with them when they were shown the door.

[balln]

For all the - our WR room is trash ppl.

 

its not.

 

Look at kc last night. Juju. Who was hot garbage w/ teams outside of kc. But somehow.  Was 7 catches for 130 at 18 yards per catch. Long of 50. On 8 targets. Also look at how efficient they. Are it’s like 8 for 9, 4 for 4 to other receivers. 
 

ITS not the WRs. It’s the QB and the OC. Always was. Always is. always will be. They have a system. They have the qb. They have the qb in total command of that system. We do not. 
 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401671687#home

 

this is why I circle back to firing McD. Hes not gonna hire an OC that will click here. We need a Ben Johnson or slovik

[SoCal Deek]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

That should have been a TD to Hollins coming off the pick, but Josh bails out of a clean pocket for no reason and then instead of leading Coleman to the sticks for a 1st down he tries to steal a TD on an ill-advised throw out of bounds that doesn't work.

That mess was entirely on Allen, imo.

I’m guessing you’re right, on the left side, but the three receivers on the right side do essentially nothing in that play design. There’s no varied depth to their routes, no combination, and no staggering of when they’re intended to come open. In the Chiefs offense there would be an underneath receiver breaking open late over the middle so that if the QB had to scramble out to his right he’d at least have a check down option. 

[Sweats]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

For Bills fans of a certain age, Thurman getting a screen or a shovel pass from Kelly was offensive perfection. 99/100 Thurman was getting great yardage. I have yet to see any OC in the McD era do this with any consistency or at all in certain cases.

 

 

 

 

KC utilizes this all the time without fail, but i think it's a concept that our OC hasn't quite grasped just yet.

[DCofNC]

20 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think Josh likes to wait and see guys open rather than throw with anticipation.   When he was getting off his first read he was under pressure.  Furthermore the Texans were chasing him down quicker than we typically see.  I know people will say guys are not open.  And I know they took the short stuff away.   There has to be other options they were not planned to take advantage of.   It seems like they are putting more guys in the box.  You have to counter it and make them pay. 
 

Josh was bad at times yesterday.  The throw to Kincaid and then next play he was flustered. 

he bounced a ball of the back of his hot route wr’s helmet, his guys routinely can’t separate with 5 seconds to do it, what exactly do you want him to anticipate?

[aristocrat]

Allen to Beasely was our peak offense. Just short throws over the middle to keep the chains short and then big plays to Sanders, Diggs, Gabe, John Brown. He just doesn't seem to look for those quick 4-8 yard crossers that keep the drive going. Look at KC last night with Kelce...he just lines up wide and seems to break across the middle with nobody even within 5 yards of him and bam first down drive keeps going. 

[zow2]

Josh has the yips right now.  There's no question about it.  He's not trusting his first read, he's holding the ball too long and then making some low% throws when the window has tightened up OR he's bailing early and the spy is faster than Josh.  He needs to work on the quick timing with these WRs other than Shakir.  When he does make a nice pass (to Keon at Baltimore and in my opinion Hollins deep vs Houston) they let him down.

 

On the flip side, Brady and the receivers are letting him down too.  It's been a hot mess at Baltimore and Houston.  The OLine who i thought was maybe the best in the NFL are struggling in these hostile environments.  And most Olines much prefer to run block than pass block.

Edited October 8 by zow2

[Buffalo4Life01]

Josh is a great athlete with a cannon arm but he is dumb.  Can not read a defense pre or post snap.  And has a horrible deep ball.  His flaws can not be covered up by our subpar receivers any longer.  If we surround him with better players, we can make a run though!!

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

he bounced a ball of the back of his hot route wr’s helmet, his guys routinely can’t separate with 5 seconds to do it, what exactly do you want him to anticipate?

Citing one play is not helpful.  Josh is not an anticipatory passer...you can be offended by that, it is just a factual observation.  Look at time to throw and % of first read throw metrics over his years in the league.   If you think that bullet to Kincaid in the seam and the next pass where he just threw it up are good plays good.  He did not have his best game, not saying he is bad.....Mahomes has not been good this year, does not make him a bad QB...game by game sometimes you are on and sometimes not.  Unbunch the panties.

[Brand J]

Simmer down, guys, we’d be 0-5 with Mahomes. @GoBills808 said so!

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

lol if 'Patty' was QB we'd be 0-5 rn but sure you 'loyal to the laundry' 😂😂foh

Not sure if we would be 0 - 5 but I don't think we would be any better then the current 3 - 2 and maybe would be 2-3.  I took a look at Allen and Mahomes stats through the first 5 games and here's what I found:

 

Mahomes Passing: 1235 yrds; 6 TD's; 6INT's; 69% completion; 89 rating

Allen Passing:  945 yrds; 8 TD's; 0 INT's; 60% completion; 103 rating

 

Mahomes Rushing:  83 yrds; 0 TD's; 0 lost fumbles

Allen Rushing:  160 yrds; 2 TD's; 2 lost fumbles

 

Mahomes Total Production:  1318 yrds; 6 TD's; 6 TO's

Allens Total Production:  1105 yrds; 10 TD's; 2 TO's

 

Seems to me that that difference between the Chiefs 5 - 0 record versus the Bills 3 - 2 record has been Defense and Coaching.  Because QB play has not been the difference.