The Hollins deep ball miss

[JoshAllin]

I feel with how open Mack was, Josh didn't have to lob that one and could have just lined it to him

[Drew21PA]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

Sheesh o hate seeing these sometimes but we had our chances - again

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

I've seen Jefferson, Chase, Higgins, Hill, Mike Evans, etc routinely catch those and I've seen Harrison Jr and Nabers step up as rookies and make plays like that. That no catch was on Hollins. Ball was catchable. His bum ass just couldn't make a play. 

 

Beane has failed to give Allen a true number one this year and this happened. 

Was it a slightly off direction pass?...Absolutely. Would a better wr have still caught that?...Yes.  This team right now has a serious wr crisis.  Shakir is our best wr albeit probably not a #1 and he's out. Samuel and MVS are getting paid to not produce.  Coleman has no speed and will be a nice jump ball/back shoulder guy, but nothing more. That leaves opposing defenses to just bracket Kincaid. Thanks McB for not trading up a little for Thomas.  Your inability to give Josh weapons is becoming comical.

[HappyDays]

24 minutes ago, mbowman14 said:

On this throw, there is no Safety help to worry about because the Safety is 5 yards behind Hollins after his Dig fake.

 

Allen makes the read and gears up to throw the ball before the safety is dusted. That is why binary leverage reads are built into the play, the goal is to make it as easy as possible for the QB and WR to be on the same page.

 

But it really shouldn't even matter. A competent WR easily tracks the ball and comes down with the catch. There's really no excuse for Hollins not to come down with the ball.

[behind a post WMS69]

I also thought he had plenty of time to adjust to it. It seemed like the moment was just to big for him.

 

For a while I was buying into the "quietly got better" thing. But that clearly didn't happen. At least not yet. Still early in the season and maybe they will gel, and a few guys will step up, but so far the entire group, including tight ends are underperforming.

 

Brady is also not helping the situation, with many questionable calls. It boggles the mind how we are still so terrible at simple screen passes.

Edited October 7 by behind a post WMS69

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya, I'd sY 60% on Josh , 40% Hollins for not tracking better, that literally just swiped his finger tips, but an extra step/better recognition , that's easy 6..

 

Compare that to Stroud to Collins.. Right in his palms

There’s no excuse for not catching that ball…absolutely none.  Then we can nitpick on the ‘a better throw would’ve been a td’ if it wasnt and there being two sides of the argument make sense 

 

using the throw as an excuse for not catching that ball is absolutely absurd.  An average rec league flag football receiver makes that catch 🤣

Edited October 7 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SoMAn]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

Absolutely correct. Had he not broke stride the ball would probably have fallen right into his hands. 

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

It sends a message of Josh can do no wrong and nothing is ever on him, which just isn't accurate.

 

I'm not saying Josh can do no wrong. Unequivocally this was not a good game for him. He made several bad throws and bad decisions especially in the 1st half. The Hollins throw was not one of them. I'm not asking Hollins to make an exceptional play. I'm asking him to run his route normally, track the ball in the air while he is wide open, and make an easy catch. It honestly blows my mind that we are assigning any blame to Josh on this easy play that any competent WR makes. Josh does exactly what people want him to do on deep throws - he throws the ball at an arc so his WR can run under it and make the catch.

[mbowman14]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Allen makes the read and gears up to throw the ball before the safety is dusted. That is why binary leverage reads are built into the play, the goal is to make it as easy as possible for the QB and WR to be on the same page.

 

But it really shouldn't even matter. A competent WR easily tracks the ball and comes down with the catch. There's really no excuse for Hollins not to come down with the ball.

He is dusted though before Hollins runs by him...the Safety is sitting and starting to jump the dig while Hollins is in full sprint up-field.  If you are correct and the throw should go outside, then Hollins route really sucks because he stays on the numbers for the first 10-15 yards after his break up-field and only fades to the sideline very late in his route which makes it a much more difficult catch.  One thing everyone can agree on, Mack Hollins is not the answer for this type of target share.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

There’s no excuse for not catching that ball…absolutely none.  Then we can nitpick on the ‘a better throw would’ve been a td’ if it wasnt and there being two sides of the argument make sense 

 

using the throw as an excuse for not catching that ball is absolutely absurd.  An average rec league flag football receiver makes that catch 🤣

lol ok buddy.. 

I have no words for how ridiculous you sound

[Process]

Another brutal one

 

 

[Airseven]

Hard to recall the last time Allen completed a long ball. That pass to MH was inaccurate but catchable. A more capable WR would've tracked it.

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Properly to the outside shoulder?! 

 

There is no safety, he drops down.  Ref is only one in the middle of field.

 

Said it during game yesterday, that should've gone inside shoulder.  That's 80% on Josh, and Hollins doesn't have the talent to make up for it.

 

Josh also missed Kincaid on a seam route that would have gone for a TD, underthrew it.

 

Josh is struggling with deep ball accuracy, plain and simple.

YPP is wrong this time.

Hollins needs GPS to track a ball.  He’s hopeless on those deep throws.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

half field read

 

very obvious

Maybe it's just me, but the only thing that is obvious to me is that Josh had decided Hollins was the target prior to the snap. With the little pump fake seems to me Josh was going for it but Hollins had nothing. Might actually be a problem that has reared it's ugly head before, maybe even something that would piss off a wr like Diggs after watching film. Because really, with that setup and the short routes Shavers is the play all day. 

[MasterStrategist]

20 minutes ago, Process said:

Another brutal one

 

 

Yes, 2 missed TD throws...this 2nd one was a more challenging throw but one most good QBs can make.

 

Problem is he overthrew/bad placement on the Hollins shot, so looked like he took something off this throw/guarantee was in his head.

 

Just not a great game by Josh this week, after being nearly unstoppable in September.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I think Josh commented on timing being just a bit off on some of the throws and this was one.

 

If he literally had one more beat, he would have seen Hollins take it straight up the field and thrown it straighter and to the inside. But the Texans forced him to throw it a fraction sooner. 

[90sBills]

6 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The route is going towards the middle of the field. Josh throws it towards the sidelines. Not that easy to stop your momentum and change direction. 
 

The safety wasn’t moving so no reason to worry about them. That ball should have been thrown where the route was going, inside. Josh decided to make it difficult and throw outside 

Not on purpose. He’s not accurate on those throws. 

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Sorry it was a terrible throw. The WR is running straight up the field.  The safety was nowhere in sight.

A better WR can make that catch but Josh has to deliver a better ball with more air under it. 

 

Why is Hollins even running that route. Why is that not Coleman or MVS???? 

 

MVS would’ve mis-timed it like he did against the Eagles last year for a would be game winner. It’s probably why he’s not with KC anymore. 

[Figster]

7 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

There's like 50-75 WRs in the NFL who will make that catch.

 

Hollins is a WR by name only. He's basically a blocking TE. You might as well throw that to Lee Smith. 

 

The people blaming Allen for poor decision making are taking the humanity out of the game. Would you trust these guys to do anything right? I wouldn't, so it's understandable why he's holding the ball for that extra 2/10s of a second, and that's all you need in the NFL to screw up the rhythm of an offense.

 The Beane head deserves some credit for our piss poor WR room.  Sends the Bills 1 and 2 WR packing and replaces them with average at best WR's and a rookie.

 

Hollins sucks...

Edited October 7 by Figster

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

 The Beane head deserves some credit for our piss poor WR room.  Sends the Bills 1 and 2 WR packing and replaces them with average at best WR's and a rookie.

 

Hollins sucks...

We will probably never know the extent of the Diggs issue.

 

It could be McD who told them to take the trade. 

 

I'm not making excuses though, once Diggs was gone it was his responsibility to fill that role. He took a shot with Samuel but that has not panned out. I'm hesitant to blame Beane for that either, but we absolutely should have drafted (at least) two WRs. 

[90sBills]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

And he still overthrow him. It has been this way since he was a rookie. Its his only weakness. And it's probably never going to get better. 

We all love Allen but throwing with touch downfield is nearly impossible for him. 

His touch on short passes could use improvement as well. It’s one of the reasons the screen game isn’t that great.