The Hollins deep ball miss

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, fergie's ire said:

If your read is accurate, and I think it is...then the coaching DECISION is not on McDermott.  Made me crazy that they weren't working to get the first or even threatening to get the first.  Even if they get a five yard gain, Houston might not call the TO worrying that we might be able to pick up a first and be able to try for FG position.  It was Josh and/or Brady making the poor decision to throw deep.  That said, the head coach or OC need to pull Josh aside before he goes out in that situation and make it clear he needs to go for the first.  That is a failure of McDermott.  

McD was visibly pissed off over this.  
 

I was all over McD end of this game and livid about these final 3 plays…but makes you wonder where this stupidity really falls.  
 

 

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, djp14150 said:

How much is it the receiver vs the QB is really hard to measure.

Especially when neither one of them is putting his best foot forward.

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

 

This reminds me so much of last year.  Many plays where Josh was “just off” relative to accuracy.  I hope we are not doomed to a full season of this.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Terrible throw and you can't convince me otherwise. Josh is a top 2 QB that legitimately may be bottom 2 at throwing the deep ball. 

 

Does anyone have a clip of the one to Kincaid? I haven't been able to find it. 

You're right....as much as we all love Josh, he has struggled his whole career with deep throws. Usually the trajectory is too flat or the ball drifts out of direction like the one to Hollins. Hollins is still a garbage wr and should've adjusted better. 

Edited October 7 by LABILLBACKER

[mbowman14]

There is no way that throw is supposed to take him back out to the sideline.  Double move is going to the inside and he beats the Safety by 5 yards.  A throw to the outside is to fade away from the CB on a straight vertical route and keep the ball away from Safety help.  On this throw, there is no Safety help to worry about because the Safety is 5 yards behind Hollins after his Dig fake.  Throw it to the middle to allow Hollins to continue on the path he was on after the Dig fake.  Poor throw, it happens. 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

You might as well throw that to Lee Smith.

Or Patrick DiMarco. If I remember correctly. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, dorquemada said:

The bigger issue is that our OL has completely collapsed.  I'd like to think that at least some of Allen's poor play can be blamed on the fact that he's getting zerg rushed every single play.  That's not going to stop either.  Between the JV OL, and the laughable group at WR I don't see anything improving any time soon

It’s domino effect. The oline looks worse because defenses don’t respect our WRs so they can blitz more and play for man without the fear of getting beat by it. 
 

it’s strange to say but the lack of skill at receiver affects the o line, 

[T master]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Worth its own discussion since that could have changed the game.

 

It’s arguable this wasn’t the best throw in the world, but it’s 100% catchable. To me, there’s plenty of arc and time for Hollins to adjust under it, and instead he makes this bizarre stop and start that loses him ground. 

 

And why not use the speed guy in this instance ? Wasn't Skantling talked about being the guy to take the top off the D ?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

These look pretty good to me... perhaps you have a short memory?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All amazing throws.

Good watch the Miami game 17 and he misses Diggs by several yards after he beat the corner by 2 or more steps.

 

He is the best QB in franchise history but he is not infallible 

[zow2]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

Allen has to hit him in stride there. You see other QBs make that throw without forcing their receiver to make a huge adjustment. This is something that Allen needs to improve on. I can't really remember the last time Allen has actually completed a throw like that.

 

Jordan Love, who i don't like that much,  actually throws a nicer deep pass than Allen.   Most of Allen's bombs don't have the arc necessary to run under it. 

 

That one that Diggs dropped vs KC was one of Allen's best throws that's why it was so frustrating.

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

You're right....as much as we all love Josh, he has struggled his whole career with deep throws. Usually the trajectory is too flat or the ball drifts out of direction like the one to Hollins. Hollins is still a garbage wr and should've adjusted better. 

It’s so weird because one of the knocks against him was his accuracy which he has done amazing at the underneath stuff. 
 

but it’s crazy the guy with one of the strongest arms ever rarely hits a bomb. Granted this year, we are limited with talent but as you said, it’s been a struggle in the past when guys get open. 
 

I would have loved to see Lee Evans with Allen. Just put a little loft on that thing Josh! And don’t throw is to Mack Hollins (nice guy!).

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

If your read is accurate, and I think it is...then the coaching DECISION is not on McDermott.  Made me crazy that they weren't working to get the first or even threatening to get the first.  Even if they get a five yard gain, Houston might not call the TO worrying that we might be able to pick up a first and be able to try for FG position.  It was Josh and/or Brady making the poor decision to throw deep.  That said, the head coach or OC need to pull Josh aside before he goes out in that situation and make it clear he needs to go for the first.  That is a failure of McDermott.  

i dont think it

 

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Everyone also complaining Allen had to throw this deep shot to Hollins on the final inept drive that cost us the game.  Well this stupid pass was 100% all Allen too.  One Hollins isn’t open, two it’s 2nd and ten and we need yards and to stay in bounds and he has both Kincaid and Coleman for a guaranteed 5+ yards.  This would have gave us 3rd and short at worst and made Texans use a timeout.  Not only would this be easier to convert, we wouldn’t have to drop back into our own end zone risking a game ending safety to try and convert it.  And if we don’t convert, we aren’t punting as jammed up in our end zone and can pin them back further.  And it’s possible they could have made a guy miss or broke a tackle to just outright get the first.  

 

To throw this pass to Hollins is absolutely stupid.  I love Allen, but geezus this was a catastrophic mistake and honestly substantially lowered our chances to win this game by keeping us in such a dangerous position and backed up on 3rd down.  
 

 

lol dude this is a throwaway

 

half field read

 

no offense to sneakyjoesports but kincaid and shavers are not options

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

McD was visibly pissed off over this.  
 

I was all over McD end of this game and livid about these final 3 plays…but makes you wonder where this stupidity really falls.  
 

 

I wondered if Josh/Brady was actually thinking of using the time remaining when we last took possession to move upfield for a winning FG, hence the deeper, lower percentage throws. I dont want to believe that because since they had no remaining time outs it would suggest a mental health emergency. Or maybe we can blame it on the concussion.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Sorry it was a terrible throw. The WR is running straight up the field.  The safety was nowhere in sight.

A better WR can make that catch but Josh has to deliver a better ball with more air under it. 

 

Why is Hollins even running that route. Why is that not Coleman or MVS???? 

 

The same reason we threw one deep to DeMarco. Dumb decisions....

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

i dont think it

 

lol dude this is a throwaway

 

half field read

 

no offense to sneakyjoesports but kincaid and shavers are not options

Are you blind?  Coleman and Kincaid are wide open for at least 5 yards.  It was not a throw away, it was a terrible decision.  Did you even watch the play?

[GoBills808]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

Are you blind?  Coleman and Kincaid are wide open for at least 5 yards.  It was not a throw away, it was a terrible decision.  Did you even watch the play?

half field read

 

very obvious

[Warriorspikes51]

a better receiver has a decent chance to make the play on the one at the end of the game....and absolutely catches the one that was a TD 

[Billsatlastin2018]

That Quacker had tons of air and Hollins had absolutely no coverage anywhere!

ANY half assed WR should have caught that!

 

it’s all about him getting to the ball and not FUBARing a clear TD!

 

ALL on him.

 

 

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is just wrong. It's a sluggo, the safety always determines which shoulder you're throwing to. Hollins is supposed to bend his route towards the sideline. But honestly it shouldn't even matter here. The ball is thrown with arc and he has plenty of time to track it. Instead he panics and starts looking for the ball way too early and throws the timing off. If he just runs his normal route it is a catch in stride for a walk in TD.

 

I don't understand the controversy here. Hollins is a garbage WR and has been his entire career except for one outlier year where elevated to JAG status.

In the end, I'd bet you Josh would honestly like to have that throw back, and not just his normal take the blame media speak, but in reality. There's no way I or you can prove it, but it just wasn't a great throw in my opinion. Would some WR's adjust properly and catch it? Yes of course. It seems to be Josh's only remaining area that consistently needs improvement (the deep ball).

 

As tends to happen on this board, we're getting too extreme with the black and white, all or nothing blame game. Hollins is indeed just a guy, but him getting 100% blame for not only this play but now multiple plays throughout the season where Josh has been off target with him is just off. "Garbage WR" is literally just your invested emotions coming through, or maybe you feel like there are dozens and dozens of depth WR's in the league who are "garbage". You know what you mean, sure, but in the case of a public debate, it doesn't help (call that just my opinion if you like). It sends a message of Josh can do no wrong and nothing is ever on him, which just isn't accurate. And I think Josh is the best Bill of all time, or at least right there with Bruce Smith.

 

Would I love to have one or two better deep ball tracking WR's on the team? Hell yeah.

[starrymessenger]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

a better receiver has a decent chance to make the play on the one at the end of the game....and absolutely catches the one that was a TD 

I could be misremembering but didn’t Diggs catch one just like the end of game one yesterday.

Edited October 7 by starrymessenger