The Hollins deep ball miss

[DapperCam]

If people think Coleman is slow, Hollins is actually slower if you can believe it.

[MasterStrategist]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I respect that but this is the NFL. DB leverage always determines the throw. It's determined even before Hollins makes his break. The safety is showing inside leverage to start, bites inside on the double move, and at that point Allen is automatically throwing the ball to the outside shoulder. It is not an overthrow or a bad leverage read. Hollins just panics and makes a dumb play. In spite of all that if he had even a modicum of body control or speed he could have come down with it, but here we are. He failed mentally and physically on a layup TD.

 

Like I said I really don't understand the controversy here.

Again disagree.

 

Allen shouldn't be throwing automatically to the outside shoulder, that's the point where you're wrong.

 

Agree it shouldn't be a controversy.  Allen put the ball where it wasn't intended.  

 

There is no reason Allen should be putting that ball that wide.  Hollins is working his route inside/eliminating the safety leverage.  He gains easy separation.  Josh sees zero safety help over the top, Hollins running a sluggo, which isn't meant to break back out toward the sideline.

 

Again, Josh throws this ball in a horrible spot.  Go ask anyone who has coached at college or up, and you'll get the same response I'm giving.

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The Hollins throw wasn't one of them...he put the ball where it was supposed to be and Hollins wasn't good enough to track it.  Davis would have caught that 90/100.

The Hollins throw was absolutely one of them. How is throwing the ball 10 yards away from where the receiver is supposed to go a good throw?  A flat footed safety not moving should not dictate throwing a ball the opposite way a route is designed to go. 

[MasterStrategist]

I'm coming to the realization that even our top posters, have limited football X and O knowledge.

 

This is getting comical.  Sluggo seam concept, super basic.  Against cover 2 defense.  You don't need to lead WR outside on a seam/throw outside shoulder when the backside safety is occupied.

 

Good grief, some posters are passing some bad knowledge and acting like they know what they're talking about.  @HappyDays

[uticaclub]

Josh has to be perfect every play or we lose

[whorlnut]

The main issue is Mack Hollins is in the game in the first place. That guy is core special teamer, but not a starting nfl wr. 

[ProcessImproverMan]

I've seen Jefferson, Chase, Higgins, Hill, Mike Evans, etc routinely catch those and I've seen Harrison Jr and Nabers step up as rookies and make plays like that. That no catch was on Hollins. Ball was catchable. His bum ass just couldn't make a play. 

 

Beane has failed to give Allen a true number one this year and this happened. 

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

I've seen Jefferson, Chase, Higgins, Hill, Mike Evans, etc routinely catch those and I've seen Harrison Jr and Nabers step up as rookies and make plays like that. That no catch was on Hollins. Ball was catchable. His bum ass just couldn't make a play. 

 

Beane has failed to give Allen a true number one this year and this happened. 

Hell, John Brown caught those 

[nedboy7]

Josh is wasting Mack Hollins prime years. 
 

joking aside the throw isn’t great but a real WR1 I believe adjusts and scores there.  There is plenty of blame to go around.  Literally every single player and coach.  

Edited October 7 by nedboy7

[Brand J]

The safety? C’mon, it’d be akin to Stroud throwing a deep ball towards the sideline to force Nico to adjust because Cole Bishop was inside. Seriously? The safety wasn’t part of the equation in either deep ball, both got roasted. A properly thrown ball to the inside with the same amount of distance is a ball Hollins can run under and catch, the same one Nico was afforded. This ball forces Hollins to slow and re-track as the ball is headed towards the sideline and gets on top of him. It was bad ball placement, period. Josh said he overthrew him in the presser. It wouldn’t have been an overthrow if it went over the proper shoulder. 

[DapperCam]

11 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Hell, John Brown caught those 

I’m pretty sure I specifically remember John Brown switching shoulders to catch a deep ball like that several times.

[JimmyNoodles]

Hollins is looking inside the whole time, so seems to me it's supposed to a throw to that side.  The throw was terrible.  That being said, do people dive to make catches anymore?  I would have liked to see Hollins lay out for it.  I'm sure he would have dropped it anyway, but would like to see the effort.  

[ProcessImproverMan]

32 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I’m pretty sure I specifically remember John Brown switching shoulders to catch a deep ball like that several times.

Yep. Allen played his worst game since 2018 and the common denominator is McDermott and Beane failing to give him an adequate number one receiver. When Allen has had a great offensive mind (Daboll who happened to get  Jones paid and to the playoffs) and healthy weapons that include a good number one receiver (2019-first part of 2023 before Diggs got washed) , he has played very well. 2020 and 2021 Diggs, Brown, Beasley saw our offense dominate. 2022 and 2023 we got figured out some with Dorsey failing to be Daboll quality but our receivers played well enough to get by. Now without a true number one we are screwed seeing Brady has been figured out. 

 

Beane and McDermott are the problem. Brady sucked in New England in 2019 when he had no good receivers, which is why he left for Tampa. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya, I'd sY 60% on Josh , 40% Hollins for not tracking better, that literally just swiped his finger tips, but an extra step/better recognition , that's easy 6..

 

Compare that to Stroud to Collins.. Right in his palms

This.  Allen’s throw was poor, it’s non debatable in my book.  Hollins makes a poor adjustment changing it from a difficult catch to an out of reach catch.  
 

Both failed on this play, but it starts with Allen making another really poor deep shot.  Allen missed a wide open Diggs many times last year for would be long TDs by over throwing him or under throwing into a turnover.  It’s been an issue.  
 

This year, he had MVS twice wide open down field and missed him so bad both times he couldn’t even make a play on the ball.  
 

This week was the worst I have seen Josh play by a mile.  

[Ray Stonada]

Very hard to switch shoulder on a deep ball. I played receiver.
 

The throw was bad.
 

Stroud had the same throw to Nico Collins and dropped it in perfectly, inside shoulder. 

[Alphadawg7]

Everyone also complaining Allen had to throw this deep shot to Hollins on the final inept drive that cost us the game.  Well this stupid pass was 100% all Allen too.  One Hollins isn’t open, two it’s 2nd and ten and we need yards and to stay in bounds and he has both Kincaid and Coleman for a guaranteed 5+ yards.  This would have gave us 3rd and short at worst and made Texans use a timeout.  Not only would this be easier to convert, we wouldn’t have to drop back into our own end zone risking a game ending safety to try and convert it.  And if we don’t convert, we aren’t punting as jammed up in our end zone and can pin them back further.  And it’s possible they could have made a guy miss or broke a tackle to just outright get the first.  

 

To throw this pass to Hollins is absolutely stupid.  I love Allen, but geezus this was a catastrophic mistake and honestly substantially lowered our chances to win this game by keeping us in such a dangerous position and backed up on 3rd down.  
 

 

[starrymessenger]

Jayden Daniels is right now a much better long ball passer than Josh. I have a hard time understanding this considering Josh’s physical ability. I do think at least some of this is because of the turnover in the receiver’s room. Also I do think Davante Adams and any number of top shelf NFLreceivers would probably have caught that ball. 

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Jayden Daniels is right now a much better long ball passer than Josh. I have a hard time understanding this considering Josh’s physical ability. I do think at least some of this is because of the turnover in the receiver’s room. Also I do think Davante Adams and any number of top shelf NFLreceivers would probably have caught that ball. 

Maybe half the QBs in the league are to be honest. 

[fergie's ire]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Everyone also complaining Allen had to throw this deep shot to Hollins on the final inept drive that cost us the game.  Well this stupid pass was 100% all Allen too.  One Hollins isn’t open, two it’s 2nd and ten and we need yards and to stay in bounds and he has both Kincaid and Coleman for a guaranteed 5+ yards.  This would have gave us 3rd and short at worst and made Texans use a timeout.  Not only would this be easier to convert, we wouldn’t have to drop back into our own end zone risking a game ending safety to try and convert it.  And if we don’t convert, we aren’t punting as jammed up in our end zone and can pin them back further.  And it’s possible they could have made a guy miss or broke a tackle to just outright get the first.  

 

To throw this pass to Hollins is absolutely stupid.  I love Allen, but geezus this was a catastrophic mistake and honestly substantially lowered our chances to win this game by keeping us in such a dangerous position and backed up on 3rd down.  
 

 

If your read is accurate, and I think it is...then the coaching DECISION is not on McDermott.  Made me crazy that they weren't working to get the first or even threatening to get the first.  Even if they get a five yard gain, Houston might not call the TO worrying that we might be able to pick up a first and be able to try for FG position.  It was Josh and/or Brady making the poor decision to throw deep.  That said, the head coach or OC need to pull Josh aside before he goes out in that situation and make it clear he needs to go for the first.  That is a failure of McDermott.  

[djp14150]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Jayden Daniels is right now a much better long ball passer than Josh. I have a hard time understanding this considering Josh’s physical ability. I do think at least some of this is because of the turnover in the receiver’s room. Also I do think Davante Adams and any number of top shelf NFLreceivers would probably have caught that ball. 

How much is it the receiver vs the QB is really hard to measure.