The Hollins deep ball miss

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

Hollins didn't need to make a huge adjustment on that throw at all though. He just needed to continue running and not try and track the ball for 30 yards. 

I'm not so sure. They showed a replay from the end zone vantage and Hollins had to really adjust and turn toward the sideline. I'm sure some of the blame is with Hollins and his poor tracking, but Allen is more to blame, in my opinion.

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Sorry it was a terrible throw. The WR is running straight up the field.  The safety was nowhere in sight.

A better WR can make that catch but Josh has to deliver a better ball with more air under it. 

 

Why is Hollins even running that route. Why is that not Coleman or MVS???? 

 

More air under it? It was up there for 4-5 seconds!

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

Sorry Happy, your point isn't correct here.  Once Hollins gained separation, there is no need to throw outside shoulder.  It creates a more difficult catch radius/tracking becomes more difficult.

 

I've coached at many levels, and the QB is taught to put that ball inside, without a safety playing over the top. 

 

Agree Hollins isn't talented enough to adjust.  But that's a TD if Josh puts it where it's meant to be thrown.

 

Facts, I'd be interested to see what Josh or Hollins have to say.

 

The rule of thumb is to throw away from the safety regardless; we had this same argument in the reverse over a Gabe Davis throw for a touchdown where the two were on different pages.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, Roundybout said:

More air under it? It was up there for 4-5 seconds!

And he still overthrow him. It has been this way since he was a rookie. Its his only weakness. And it's probably never going to get better. 

We all love Allen but throwing with touch downfield is nearly impossible for him. 

[Meatloaf63]

16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Seriously?   Its a double move to a nine route.   No football team on Earth practices a go to suddenly slant to the sideline.   

It didn’t need a slant to the side line but the safety dictates he should be looking over his shoulder or be drifting to the outside. Come on not that difficult 

Edited October 7 by Meatloaf63

[skibum]

The ball probably should have been thrown over the left shoulder instead, but Hollins looked very amateur in how he adjusted. He took a weird path and wound up at bad angle. 

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

 

The rule of thumb is to throw away from the safety regardless; we had this same argument in the reverse over a Gabe Davis throw for a touchdown where the two were on different pages.

What safety?  There is no 2nd safety to throw away from.  That's my point.

 

Hollins gained easy separation, you don't throw it outside shoulder/sidelines to protect from a closing safety when there isn't one there!

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

I'm not so sure. They showed a replay from the end zone vantage and Hollins had to really adjust and turn toward the sideline. I'm sure some of the blame is with Hollins and his poor tracking, but Allen is more to blame, in my opinion.

We won't ever know, but I feel confident in saying that there's a lot of WRs in the league (like WR3 types) who will make that catch routinely with the exact same throw. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

 

The rule of thumb is to throw away from the safety regardless; we had this same argument in the reverse over a Gabe Davis throw for a touchdown where the two were on different pages.

That can't possibly be true. He is running straight up the field. Josh threw it several yards closer to the sideline. 

It was a terrible throw. 

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

And he still overthrow him. It has been this way since he was a rookie. Its his only weakness. And it's probably never going to get better. 

We all love Allen but throwing with touch downfield is nearly impossible for him. 

But if that’s the case, it comes back to Hollins slowing up and tracking the ball poorly. It went off his fingertips. 

[Livinginthepast]

Catchable? Yes  but I think Hollins catches that 2/10 times. Which explains why he has been on several teams in his career. Hollins is a decent 4th receiver but thats a difficult pass for him to catch. It wasnt a terrible throw by Josh but it also wasnt placed properly and had he led him to the middle of the field side, its an easy touchdown. Same with the deep throw later on. Where Josh underthrows his mind and its knocked away.

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

What safety?  There is no 2nd safety to throw away from.  That's my point.

 

Hollins gained easy separation, you don't throw it outside shoulder/sidelines to protect from a closing safety when there isn't one there!

 

He put a lot of touch on it and likely thought the safety would catch him akin to the 2nd to last offensive play.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is just wrong. It's a sluggo, the safety always determines which shoulder you're throwing to. Hollins is supposed to bend his route towards the sideline. But honestly it shouldn't even matter here. The ball is thrown with arc and he has plenty of time to track it. Instead he panics and starts looking for the ball way too early and throws the timing off. If he just runs his normal route it is a catch in stride for a walk in TD.

 

I don't understand the controversy here. Hollins is a garbage WR and has been his entire career except for one outlier year where elevated to JAG status.

Safety was standing still. Ball should have gone where route was designed and where the receiver was going. If he ran the normal route the ball lands 10 yards away from him because the route was going inside and Josh threw it outside 

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

He put a lot of touch on it and likely thought the safety would catch him akin to the 2nd to last offensive play.  

The safety was standing still. Hollins was running with speed. In what world is someone standing still going to catch up to someone running full speed in that short of a distance? 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I've coached at many levels, and the QB is taught to put that ball inside, without a safety playing over the top. 

 

I respect that but this is the NFL. DB leverage always determines the throw. It's determined even before Hollins makes his break. The safety is showing inside leverage to start, bites inside on the double move, and at that point Allen is automatically throwing the ball to the outside shoulder. It is not an overthrow or a bad leverage read. Hollins just panics and makes a dumb play. In spite of all that if he had even a modicum of body control or speed he could have come down with it, but here we are. He failed mentally and physically on a layup TD.

 

Like I said I really don't understand the controversy here.

[Big Turk]

36 minutes ago, Process said:

Terrible throw and you can't convince me otherwise. Josh is a top 2 QB that legitimately may be bottom 2 at throwing the deep ball. 

 

Does anyone have a clip of the one to Kincaid? I haven't been able to find it. 

 

These look pretty good to me... perhaps you have a short memory?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7 by Big Turk

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The guy probably would have dropped it anyway. He shouldn’t be on the field. It’s truly that simple. He’s a 5/6 on an average team. The roster construction is inexcusable. You don’t have a replacement for Diggs? You don’t trade him. You are paying him regardless 

[RyanC883]

31 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I wish there was a way to go back and look at every Allen attempt of 35 yards plus since he started his career because what I am about to say is just my perception.     Josh Allen has one of the worst deep balls in the league.  Does it look pretty when its in the air?  Yes.   Does it ever ever hit his wideout in stride to allow the wideout to run underneath of it and stroll into the endzone?  No.    

 

The play is on youtube if you want to watch it.   Despite what the tweet above says, the ball is thrown outside, and that's probably the real issue.   Instead of just throwing the ball into the path Hollins is running, he throws it slightly to the right of Hollins.   Maybe a better wideout makes a play on the ball, but lets be real an NFL QB should have dropped the ball right into Hollins' hands.   It was a bad throw. 

 

It was both (1) a bad throw, but also (2) a poor job of a WR adjusting to a bad throw—which is part of a WR’s job.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

These look pretty good to me... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He can make them he’s just very inconsistent with them. For each one of these highlight plays there’s 5 deep throws that were poor. 

[Your Brown Eye]

BuT buT bUt he DoEsN't WeAr ShOeS aNd HiS wIfe Is HoT aNd hE wAs AiR gUiTaRiNg To mR bRoWnStOnE!!!

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He can make them he’s just very inconsistent with them. For each one of these highlight plays there’s 5 deep throws that were poor. 

 

The Hollins throw wasn't one of them...he put the ball where it was supposed to be and Hollins wasn't good enough to track it.  Davis would have caught that 90/100.